TEMPS to vote on national contract?

[wildosvt]

I was told by my committee man that there is no way temps and new hires are going to get a vote on national contract but they were getting a vote on local. If there is truth to them getting a nation contract vote please show some info thanks.

 

 

Ask someone higher then your committee man. This issue will be brought up at our union meeting tommorrow, I will report with our chairs answer to it.

 

Is it "possible" that someone misunderstood what INTERNATIONAL was saying on the phone? You tell me.

 

This topic has spread like wildfire at our plant. Pissed? Oh you betcha.

 

I'll chime in tommorrow.

[soon2bout]

NO WAY NEVER happen. Your retired which means no longer employed by Ford which= NO VOTE

Look CMSJ you say you got 15 yrs. so if you are anything like the bunch of folks that came in too CAP from 92 to 2001 you more probably did your 90days , then found out what foreman wanted his or her ass kissed and tried to ride the gravy train . Now that FORD has cut back so many foreman you feel like you been screwed . And you feel like alittle payback , well if you wanna FUCK someone FUCK a guy like me ,i gotta a wife who makes good living , i got good little part time job , and i made a few good investments so i wil always be OK . But when you FUCK WITH MEN & WOMEN who really need these benefits YOU ARE A REAL PISSER GROW up BE PART OF REAL WORLD . ARE YOU CUP CAKE OR AUTO WORKER P.S. YOU HAVE NICE LIFE

[sun3]

Look CMSJ you say you got 15 yrs. so if you are anything like the bunch of folks that came in too CAP from 92 to 2001 you more probably did your 90days , then found out what foreman wanted his or her ass kissed and tried to ride the gravy train . Now that FORD has cut back so many foreman you feel like you been screwed . And you feel like alittle payback , well if you wanna FUCK someone FUCK a guy like me ,i gotta a wife who makes good living , i got good little part time job , and i made a few good investments so i wil always be OK . But when you FUCK WITH MEN & WOMEN who really need these benefits YOU ARE A REAL PISSER GROW up BE PART OF REAL WORLD . ARE YOU CUP CAKE OR AUTO WORKER P.S. YOU HAVE NICE LIFE

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Too many UAW members act like that. They are the ones gthat give us the bad rap!!! They are the ones that are' overpaid and under worked' like the general public thinks of us all. CMSJ, what are your work ethics? Do you go to work every scheduled day and are on the job ready to work ON TIME? Do you stretch out your breaks and lunch 'cause someone else does? Do you give a damn about what your contribution means to the cars on the lot? Do you think that it may be your friend or family that buys that car you helped build on a day you didn't care? Is it your fault someones car fails to run right and causes a horrific accident? GET REAL UAW!!! We can make Americans look at our vehicles differently if we strive to change our image. IT IS TIME TO GIVE A DAMN!!!

[Furious1Auto]

They did up the strike pay from $150/week to $250/week.

I was unaware, that's excellent! where did you get this info?

[Furious1Auto]

not long after i started at ford, i was having a conversation with a high seniority co-worker. this post reminded me of what he said.

he said one of the biggest mistakes made by the uaw membership was voting in the pay scale starting new hires at 70%. his concern at the time was how would lower seniority workers vote when it came time to protect higher seniority.

 

as for me i thought it was fair enough to work up to full scale. but now it really could be a problem. a majority of workers at tcap are at starting wages with no benefits. saving the company money but the union will get nothing from it. aside from the fact they may try to keep the place open longer.

 

whats really disturbing to think of is that a uaw plant is for the most part running with employees making almost $10 dollars an hour less than full wages, no medical, no paid days off, no benefits in general and no job security. all while paying the standard dues. and yes i know me and many others agreed to go back under those terms but we left with more than the new temps are getting. some supervisors are using their temp status against them.

 

i believe if you pay dues you are a member and should have a vote. if there are enough temps to throw off a vote we have a bigger problem than we know.

i also believe a dues paying member should be protected fully by the union with the same rights and benefits.

i also understand the temps are being USED by the COMPANY and the UNION to allow for transfers of seniority employees.

what i dont understand is why an agreement was made to deny temps full representation, paid days off, and equal treatment.

 

i understand that temps will likely not be concerned about retirees. and that could be of concern. but as i said earlier there shouldnt be enough to sway a vote. if they had equal rights and at least some benefits they might understand what they are voting for. if it were up to me current retirees would keep what they have and changes if we were unfortunate enough to have them should apply only when current members retire. doing otherwise is like breaking a promise.

It gets better than that! If we agreed that new hires top out at 10 dollars less than top union scale after some years pass, and the lower paid people become the majority how hard would it be to convince them to decertify the union charter all together! They will take every opportunity to weaken and eventually bust the union if we allow them to!

Edited August 25, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Len_A]

NO WAY NEVER happen. Your retired which means no longer employed by Ford which= NO VOTE

Sounds like someone who will never retire from Ford!!! Did you forget who got you what you have????? Or are you one of the ones who doesn't believe it and doesn't care!!!! It amazes me to think of all the Ford workers who blow off all of the retirees. Don't you want to be one some day???? When and if you make it don't you want a good retirement and benefits??? Don't you want your family taken care of??? What kind of brain can't see that it is important--imperitive to remember the retirees. My guess is that there is one in your family--don't you even care about them??? If you don't, I'll bet they wish they never would have helped you get a job!!! WAKE UP UAW workers!!! The retirees walked the line for you. How in the HELL do you think you have the wages and benefits you have today?? Ford just gave them to you??? Make the retirees an important part of all decisions, hopefully we will all get there ourselves and then we can reap our rewards. WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!!

Understand this: Regardless of what you think, or what some other UAW member told you, by federal law, once you are retired, you are no longer an active employee, and can not remain a union member, and can not, under any set of circumstance, ever vote on a collective bargaining agreement. Furthermore, under the same federal law, it is illegal for any union to file an unfair labor practice grievance, or go on strike, over current retirees. For otherwise to ever happen will literally take an act of Congress that is either signed into law by the President, or has a veto overturned. Looking at the current make-up of both houses of Congress, do you see any political support for a change in labor law to allow retirees to vote on a contract?

Edited August 25, 2007 by Len_A

[soon2bout]

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Too many UAW members act like that. They are the ones gthat give us the bad rap!!! They are the ones that are' overpaid and under worked' like the general public thinks of us all. CMSJ, what are your work ethics? Do you go to work every scheduled day and are on the job ready to work ON TIME? Do you stretch out your breaks and lunch 'cause someone else does? Do you give a damn about what your contribution means to the cars on the lot? Do you think that it may be your friend or family that buys that car you helped build on a day you didn't care? Is it your fault someones car fails to run right and causes a horrific accident? GET REAL UAW!!! We can make Americans look at our vehicles differently if we strive to change our image. IT IS TIME TO GIVE A DAMN!!!

Dont thank me for anything , just telling the truth about 35% of the people that came in at that time frame could tell you all day long how to do your job but when it came down to crunch time THEY COULD NOT FIND THEIR OWN ASS WITH CATCHERS MITT . And this is bunch that FORD says is gonna save us . I will never forget in 1996 this clown i trained on a job could not get it , after 2 wks. he told me i dont have the will for this job I TOLD HIM I DIDNT THINK HE HAD THE WILL TO LIVE . YEAH the new generation AUTO WORKER is on top of it all .

[Furious1Auto]

Dont thank me for anything , just telling the truth about 35% of the people that came in at that time frame could tell you all day long how to do your job but when it came down to crunch time THEY COULD NOT FIND THEIR OWN ASS WITH CATCHERS MITT . And this is bunch that FORD says is gonna save us . I will never forget in 1996 this clown i trained on a job could not get it , after 2 wks. he told me i dont have the will for this job I TOLD HIM I DIDNT THINK HE HAD THE WILL TO LIVE . YEAH the new generation AUTO WORKER is on top of it all .

You sound diluted trying to under cut a man who speaks the truth! Do your jobs and focus on the customers building them a defect free vehicle, or retire! Leave us and find out what we can't find! Likely better attendance, and better quality just, like we did when the last batch of worthless employees left!

[Imawhosure]

It is all a political question--------->who should get hammered?!?!?!

 

The reality------------->Should concentrate on cutting the worthless, useless, and hopeless. That alone will save tons of cash. I don't care how good of a worker, or employee you are; you can't compete with the weight you carry on your back.

 

Pointing at retirees, or pointing at the hard worker........or for that matter, them pointing at each other, just shows how our mentality is, and that it needs an adjustment. We should be working towards solutions by screwing those who screwed all of us!!!!!!

 

AND THAT WOULD BE------------->Deadbeats, politicians who are to afraid to level the playingfield, Toyoty, etc.

[Furious1Auto]

It is all a political question--------->who should get hammered?!?!?!

 

The reality------------->Should concentrate on cutting the worthless, useless, and hopeless. That alone will save tons of cash. I don't care how good of a worker, or employee you are; you can't compete with the weight you carry on your back.

 

Pointing at retirees, or pointing at the hard worker........or for that matter, them pointing at each other, just shows how our mentality is, and that it needs an adjustment. We should be working towards solutions by screwing those who screwed all of us!!!!!!

 

AND THAT WOULD BE------------->Deadbeats, politicians who are to afraid to level the playingfield, Toyoty, etc.

Agreed! Always good to here from you Imawhosure! Hey, have you heard that Bush intends on signing 5 more trade agreements before leaving office?

[fmccap]

It is all a political question--------->who should get hammered?!?!?!

 

The reality------------->Should concentrate on cutting the worthless, useless, and hopeless. That alone will save tons of cash. I don't care how good of a worker, or employee you are; you can't compete with the weight you carry on your back.

 

Pointing at retirees, or pointing at the hard worker........or for that matter, them pointing at each other, just shows how our mentality is, and that it needs an adjustment. We should be working towards solutions by screwing those who screwed all of us!!!!!!

AND THAT WOULD BE------------->Deadbeats, politicians who are to afraid to level the playingfield, Toyoty, etc.

It will be nice if one day people wakeup and realize this. People don't care anymore, they are just worried about me,me,me. I know you are retired and believe that what concessions that are coming should be by us, not retirees. People need to realize that if we fast forward 20 to 30 years a there is a retirement for us current workers, how would we like that workforce giving away our benifits? I'm sure it would be a different story.

[Imawhosure]

Agreed! Always good to here from you Imawhosure! Hey, have you heard that Bush intends on signing 5 more trade agreements before leaving office?

 

Furious,

 

Trade agreements do not bother me.

 

What bothers me is how our political partys handle such pap!! You know, our manufacturers leave this country more because of taxes, regulations, along with having to pay 1/2 of SSI than anything.

 

Does China, Mexico, Korea, or any of the others have SSI???? That is a chunk of change.

 

And then, when any party suggests we give breaks to corporate giants, it is painted as tax breaks to the wealthy.

 

Look at how the USA and Canada manufacturing bases contract, while others manufacturing expand!!!! And if you listen to a specific party, their solution is NOT to level the playing field by lowering taxes on our corporations, but rather to tax the goods coming in, lolololol.

 

Why is that distinction important?????????

 

Because if you tax THEIR stuff coming in, you start a trade war where the other countrys raise barriers to OUR stuff.............meaning we still lose work because we sell LESS!!!!!

 

BUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, if we give our guys the break by cutting taxes and regulations, (reasonable regulatory cuts, I might add) the other countrys can't retaliate since we are NOT taxing their stuff on the way in.

 

Now then, let us asess the situation----------->if we raise barriers we lose work.............if we do nothing but keep the status quo they make like a tree and leave, but if we put them on a better footing by cutting their regs and taxes they might stay supplying manufacturing jobs for a tax base to draw from!!!!

 

That is how you know politics SUCK!!!!!!!! They would rather moan that IT IS NOT FAIR to give OUR GUYS a break cause they have to much money and watch jobs go bye,bye................then to keep them in country and draw from the tax base kept by the manufacturing jobs!!!!!

 

Oh, and 1 more thing----------------->If (and that is still yet to be determined) a democrat gets elected and installs national healthcare, will this mean the MEDICARE TAX will now go away? Has anyone asked this question? What dollar amount will national healthcare cost us, and it MUST come from taxpayers and NOT the corporations.

 

Why?

 

Because we will force MORE jobs to leave our shores if THEY have to pay, instead of us!!!!

 

May I suggest that someone look at what Japans rate of tax is on their corporations, Chinas, Koreas, and you will get the drift of why we are losing our manufacturing base. It is not that you hard working people are not good..........rather great!!!!!!!! But instead the outlay for things NON LABOR is way lower. This in itself makes up for their SHIPPING back here. Take that away from them, and you will find that for large manufacturing goods, it is almost a wash if built here, or there. And our countrys political stability makes it a no brainer.

 

It is all a political question, not a union, or company question. Funny thing is----------->neither party is addressing it, they would rather blame each other to get elected screwing us, and that should scare all of us more than anything!!!!! They obvuscate the truth for their own gain in power, and I will be damned if some of us don't believe them.

[Imawhosure]

It will be nice if one day people wakeup and realize this. People don't care anymore, they are just worried about me,me,me. I know you are retired and believe that what concessions that are coming should be by us, not retirees. People need to realize that if we fast forward 20 to 30 years a there is a retirement for us current workers, how would we like that workforce giving away our benifits? I'm sure it would be a different story.

 

Mr Cap,

 

No I do not think what you have stated, I believe it should be a shared sacrifice. We in retirement are just as concerned as you the worker, about the longevity of this company.

 

To cut deeply into a younger workers benefits and do nothing to retirees is unfair. It is not about me, me, me in my eyes, it is really about us, us, us...........and Ford.

 

My only concern on this matter is---------->that the current worker makes the union and company STRONGER by addition through SUBTRACTION; subtraction of people at work who screw ya over. It is now time to understand that their is no excess cash laying around to support these people, so every dollar that goes to them, comes directly from you, or us, or me.

 

Always remember that when they calculate the cost of a vehicle, they throw the retirees, workers, and DEADBEATS into the cost and arrive at the number. Maybe the deadbeats are only costing Ford 4 bucks per car in total,(I contend it is much higher, and only an in depth cost analysis would give an accurate number.........but I bet Ford has one!!!!!) but that is the first 4 bucks that should go before they come to you......or me.

 

It is YOU GUYS/GALS who must hold both the union and Fords feet to the fire on this. What good is giving back to compete if you are saboutaged by people of the DEADBEAT PERSUASION to be set up for failure before the ink is dry, making Ford ask for more concessions when it appears on paper that everything is equal?

 

If you have any business acumen at all, you realize at best Ford will be back for more concessions if you do not force the deadbeats out; at worse you will fail to keep Ford afloat............and through no fault of your own to boot.

 

You that are highly intelligent, YOU figure out a way to explain to your co-workers who are a sandwich short of a full picnic basket, that on PAPER your wages are equal, but Ford is back asking for concessions due to the DEADBEAT FACTOR, and it is not conspiracy, lolol. I don't think Jesus Himself could convince them, do you?

 

Therefore, it behooves you to get on the STICK NOW and demand!!!!! What have you got to lose if they say no and you fail to make them? NOTHING, but if they come back because of their failure to listen, you at least hold the moral ground. But if you do not do anything and Ford comes back and asks for more, are you willing to PAY (which is what you are really doing) so THEY (deadbeats) can little or nothing? Are you willing to take less now in this contract to keep them employed?

 

This was one of a variety of reasons I ended up retiring as I seen the writing on the wall. My family was concerned I would probably get killed, or at least get my vehicle torched, when I brought this to the forfront, lolol. Trust me when I tell you---------->were it not I was eligible to retire, I woulda fought as it was the right thing to do for everyone. But, since I had the easy out, I took it. For most of you highly intelligent people, I wish I coulda taken ya with me, and I mean that sincerely.

 

Remember------------>your primary reason for working at Ford is to support yourself, and your family. It is NOT to SUPPORT a non family member who wants a free ride, and is willing to screw you and your wallet out of monies or benefits your family would enjoy, were they not employed at Ford!!!

Edited August 27, 2007 by Imawhosure

[2000E]

I agree with you 100% and personally will not sit idle and watch them attack the retiree's to save ourselves! If there are to be concessions they need to be gradual over the life of the contract, and equitable among all interested parties to include the management!

thank you , I hope there are a few thousand more union members out there who truly care about the retiree's. True, retirees can not vote so it is up to us to protect them.

[DearbornDerek]

thank you , I hope there are a few thousand more union members out there who truly care about the retiree's. True, retirees can not vote so it is up to us to protect them.

 

I think there are alot of us that would be willing to give up a little so the retirees don't have to give up any more, but....there are way too many people in this company that if you show them some $$$$ they would vote to let Fields and Ford screw thier mother.

[fmccap]

Mr Cap,

 

No I do not think what you have stated, I believe it should be a shared sacrifice. We in retirement are just as concerned as you the worker, about the longevity of this company.

 

To cut deeply into a younger workers benefits and do nothing to retirees is unfair. It is not about me, me, me in my eyes, it is really about us, us, us...........and Ford.

I have stated many times that deadbeats should be the first ones out. I love when someone says that what is good for one is good for all, Let's apply that to the amount of productivity also.

 

We all should be concerned about this company. I'm just saying that we should be the first to give up something, not push it off on you guys. After all you guys are retired and earned it, we have yet to make it there.