IMST program

[lepskilledtrades]

AS ALOT OF YOU MAY HAVE HEARD RUMORS ABOUT THE NEW IMT PROGRAM THAT A FEW OF THE FORD PLANTS IN THE U.S. HAVE CHOSEN TO BE A PILOT PROGRAM {LIMA OHIO ENGINE PLANT FOR ONE}tHIS WHERE THE UNUSED SKILLED TRADES ARE PLACE IN THE MACHING DEPTMENTS TO OPERATE MACHINES AND ALSO WORK AS THEIR TRADES (ELECTRICAL OR MACHINE REPAIR} TO FIX THE MACHINES IN THEIR DEPARTMENT! (PULLING DOUBLE DUTY!!) WE SKILLED TRADES AT LIMA DID NOT VOLUNTEER FOR THIS OUR UNION DID THIS ON THEIR OWN!! I GUESS THEY SEEM TO FORGET WHO THEY ARE WORKIG FOR!! wE WILL SURLEY LET THEM KNOW COME ELECTION TIME FOR SURE!! BUT WITHOUT SAYING ANYMORE ABOUT THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IS THIS PROGRAM WILL VIRTUAL ELIMINATE SKILLED TRADES AS WE KNOW IT. OUR UNION HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THE COMPANY DOES NOT WANT ANY (OR VERY FEW STRICTLY SKILLED TRADES AT FORD ) THEY ARE PUTTING THEM TO WORK OPERATING MACHINES IN THE MACHINING DEPARTMENTS . OUR PLANT USED TO HAVE 450- 500 TRADES WORKING AS TRADES. BY 2008 IF THIS IMT PROGRAM PASSES WE WILL HAVE ABOUT 40 TRADES LEFT WORKING IN JUST THEIR TRADES. ALL THE REST WILL BE WORKING IN THE MACHING DEPARTMENTS RUNNING AND FIXING THEIR OWN MACHINES IN THEIR DEPARTMENTS. aLONG WITH THIS COMES DEPARTMENTLY SENIORITY THAT IS ONLY IS GOOD IN YOUR DEPARTMENT!!! YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUMP TO ANOTHER DEPARTMENT REGARDLESS OF YOUR SENIORITY THIS WILL DISPLACE ALOT OF THE AEO THAT PRESENTLY RUN MACHINING AND FORCE THEM TO TAKE ASSEMBLY JOBS!! ALL THE FUTURE WORK FOR THE TRADES WE OUR TOLD WILL BE CONTRACTED OUT (NEW CONSTRUCTION' TEAROUTS ETC.) WE AT LEP ALMOST BUT ARE NOT FULLY DOING THIS YET AND HAVE ENCOUNTERED MANY MANY PROBLEMS THAT OUR UNION DOESN'T HAVE ANSWERS YET BUT THEY EXPECT US TO VOTE ON THIS IN A FEW WEEKS!! WE AS TRADES BETTER STICK TOGETHER AND VOTE NO NO NO OR WE CAN BE SURE YOU WON'T LIKE THE OUTCOME!!!

[lepskilledtrades]

We have machine repair, millwrights, tool makers, electricians. etc. working as full time operaters in the machining departments and also doing their trade in those departments when called upon. So many of our trades took the buyouts because they did not want to go back and run machines full time. The main problem is no one is going to know anything about this IMT crap because the international is going to keep it under wraps and slide it through!! Do you want departmental seniority ? Do want the skilled trades taking machinig jobs away from the AEOs and booting them to assemblers? It's happening at Lima Engine Plant in Ohio Our union volunteered our plant to be a pilot program for this. We sure wish they would have checked with us before they did it!!! And if you don't believe us call someone who works there.Just don't call the union chairman because he is the ass that got us in this mess!!!

Edited August 25, 2007 by lepskilledtrades

[lepskilledtrades]

We at LEP would like to hear feeback from other plants that our union is telling us that are all ready doing the IMT system. Places like Romeo and Dearborn etc. How do you like it and to what extent are you doing this. Our union is tellig us that alot of plants have signed up to do this and it is the way of the future!! I'm really shocked that our international allows fighting between locals and special deal making to secure new work! I thought UAW stood for UNITED auto worker? Where is the unity? We don't mind helping the company out a little but this destruction of the skilled trades is really gone to far. It's not right that the machining operators are being kicked off their jobs and forced to go back to assembly so that the trades can run machining. Our union tells us that they look for everyone in machining to be skilled trades someday. Give us your input LEP

[lepskilledtrades]

The sad part of this is Ford has spent years dwelling on the larger profit margin of the big SUV and large trucks and forgot about the little guy who wants a inexpensive car that gets good gas mileage. Where is the under $12000-$15000 car that you want to start your kids out in? You know the kids that are going to grow up and buy another more expensive model because they liked their first (hopefully Ford) car so much? Ford has spent the last 5 years or so on a lot of bad decision making and bad designs and who do they want to pay for their mistakes now? Their hardworking employees!! Then they give out all these high payments to people that make them do exactly what the employees have been telling them to do for years!! This IMT program will save the company millions a year but the employees will do the suffering, In our plant certain skilled trades are assigned a department to work in. Once there they will operate machines by themselves making sure they do all the quality checks at certain times. Along with this they mop floors, clean machinery and anything else the company wants. On top of this they have to go out (when called upon ) and troubleshoot and repair any machine in their department, then they go back to their machines to run them. Alot of locals out there don't realize this is how the IMT program works! Then when it comes to bumping to another shift you can't unless your same trade on the other shift in your department has lower senioirity. There is no bumping to another department!! (DEPARTMENTAL SENIORITY) THis will be the end to skilled trades !

[scmustang]

How many threads do you plan on starting?

 

No offense, dude, but your whining is getting annoying. If you don't like running a machining job, take the buyout and make room for people that will do it. GEMA in Dundee Michigan produces the World Engine for the Chrysler group, and they only hire people with bachelors degrees, or people with trade cards. Your plant is not the first, and will not be the last either.

very well said-the imt program is the wave of the future-it does not matter whether it is embraced or hated-it is either change or die-everyone may hate toyota and their processes but they are the most efficient means of production and they should be used if we are to remain and beat them at their own game

[lepskilledtrades]

I totally agree to try new ideas to become more efficent but I don't think that even Toyota or Honda has their skilled trades running machinery. They got where they are at by good design and smart leadership

[lepskilledtrades]

Just curious of what is your job at Ford

[9pound]

Did you volunteer for this program or were you forced into the IMST program? Which trade do you represent?

[lepskilledtrades]

then after all those years learning your trade and then you have to go back to machining and do your trade at the same time you'll see what we mean

[hendew_15]

AS ALOT OF YOU MAY HAVE HEARD RUMORS ABOUT THE NEW IMT PROGRAM THAT A FEW OF THE FORD PLANTS IN THE U.S. HAVE CHOSEN TO BE A PILOT PROGRAM {LIMA OHIO ENGINE PLANT FOR ONE}tHIS WHERE THE UNUSED SKILLED TRADES ARE PLACE IN THE MACHING DEPTMENTS TO OPERATE MACHINES AND ALSO WORK AS THEIR TRADES (ELECTRICAL OR MACHINE REPAIR} TO FIX THE MACHINES IN THEIR DEPARTMENT! (PULLING DOUBLE DUTY!!) WE SKILLED TRADES AT LIMA DID NOT VOLUNTEER FOR THIS OUR UNION DID THIS ON THEIR OWN!! I GUESS THEY SEEM TO FORGET WHO THEY ARE WORKIG FOR!! wE WILL SURLEY LET THEM KNOW COME ELECTION TIME FOR SURE!! BUT WITHOUT SAYING ANYMORE ABOUT THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IS THIS PROGRAM WILL VIRTUAL ELIMINATE SKILLED TRADES AS WE KNOW IT. OUR UNION HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THE COMPANY DOES NOT WANT ANY (OR VERY FEW STRICTLY SKILLED TRADES AT FORD ) THEY ARE PUTTING THEM TO WORK OPERATING MACHINES IN THE MACHINING DEPARTMENTS . OUR PLANT USED TO HAVE 450- 500 TRADES WORKING AS TRADES. BY 2008 IF THIS IMT PROGRAM PASSES WE WILL HAVE ABOUT 40 TRADES LEFT WORKING IN JUST THEIR TRADES. ALL THE REST WILL BE WORKING IN THE MACHING DEPARTMENTS RUNNING AND FIXING THEIR OWN MACHINES IN THEIR DEPARTMENTS. aLONG WITH THIS COMES DEPARTMENTLY SENIORITY THAT IS ONLY IS GOOD IN YOUR DEPARTMENT!!! YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUMP TO ANOTHER DEPARTMENT REGARDLESS OF YOUR SENIORITY THIS WILL DISPLACE ALOT OF THE AEO THAT PRESENTLY RUN MACHINING AND FORCE THEM TO TAKE ASSEMBLY JOBS!! ALL THE FUTURE WORK FOR THE TRADES WE OUR TOLD WILL BE CONTRACTED OUT (NEW CONSTRUCTION' TEAROUTS ETC.) WE AT LEP ALMOST BUT ARE NOT FULLY DOING THIS YET AND HAVE ENCOUNTERED MANY MANY PROBLEMS THAT OUR UNION DOESN'T HAVE ANSWERS YET BUT THEY EXPECT US TO VOTE ON THIS IN A FEW WEEKS!! WE AS TRADES BETTER STICK TOGETHER AND VOTE NO NO NO OR WE CAN BE SURE YOU WON'T LIKE THE OUTCOME!!!

You can bet your sweet sweet ass that the skilled trades at my old plant sitting in GEN and waiting to take a job any job or sitting at home after feeling they had no options but the buyout will run those machines and be happy to have there jobs.

[lepskilledtrades]

Did you volunteer for this program or were you forced into the IMST program? Which trade do you represent?

We were forced to do this because our union went behind our backs and volunteered our plant to be a pilot plant for this

[scmustang]

We were forced to do this because our union went behind our backs and volunteered our plant to be a pilot plant for this

after reading the documentation/hearing from all sides on the plant floor at lep-the unanimous response was that it was indeed a pilot program but in order to participate you had to sign the bid for the job-no one was forced-once again-it is a brave new world at ford motor company-change or die

[lepskilledtrades]

You can bet your sweet sweet ass that the skilled trades at my old plant sitting in GEN and waiting to take a job any job or sitting at home after feeling they had no options but the buyout will run those machines and be happy to have there jobs.

How will they feel when they are running those jobs and outside contractors are doing their old trade jobs. I can understand if your only option is layoff or out the door but the company is using this plan to get rid of the trades. See when you get placed in the IMT program you run your machines and fix them in your department only. They can have outside contractors doing your job as an electrician or millwright etc...and keep you running machines watching them do it.

[hendew_15]

How will they feel when they are running those jobs and outside contractors are doing their old trade jobs. I can understand if your only option is layoff or out the door but the company is using this plan to get rid of the trades. See when you get placed in the IMT program you run your machines and fix them in your department only. They can have outside contractors doing your job as an electrician or millwright etc...and keep you running machines watching them do it.

Those congracters are doing it for alot less money than what youre getting paid.I'd be happy about what I am getting paid and do what I am told to keep that wage.

Now if it goes south after negotiations and we take a huge pay cut and said contractors are making more than you and I,I will help you burn it down!

[lepskilledtrades]

Those congracters are doing it for alot less money than what youre getting paid.I'd be happy about what I am getting paid and do what I am told to keep that wage.

Now if it goes south after negotiations and we take a huge pay cut and said contractors are making more than you and I,I will help you burn it down!

outside contractors may make less but I for one didn't spend 4 years of schooling and 8000+ hours of training to go back and run machines and do my trade job regardless of what they make . It's like Ford wants to get two for the price of one and only pay for one. Besides if they get paid $20.00 an hour their company is charging Ford $100.00 an hour I don't know about you but if they want to pay me that then they can keep their insurance and retirement!

[lep_wrencher]

after reading the documentation/hearing from all sides on the plant floor at lep-the unanimous response was that it was indeed a pilot program but in order to participate you had to sign the bid for the job-no one was forced-once again-it is a brave new world at ford motor company-change or die

 

 

I certainly don't know where you got your information, but you are DEAD WRONG!!!!! When the job postings went up, they were posted by deptartment and by trade, i.e. 4 electricians - D35 Block line. They did not get enough people bid for the electrician's jobs, so they FORCED they junior electricians. I guess you could call them the "unwilling participants". As far as reading documentation, the is NO documentation. This is a fly by the seat of your pants "pilot" program.

 

Now that we've determined that some people aroound here are totally misinformed. Is the IMT program the future??? I think it is, until Ford management sees it fail miserably with the way they are trying to impliment it right now. We have several Honda plants around Lima, and the don't have anything like our IMT program. So, when they tell us that Honda is doing it, we know they're lying to us.

 

IMO, the biggest reason that people are angry about IMT is that there is no structure to it, no "DOCUMENTATION". If there were actually some rules as to the way things are supposed to be run, I think people could swallow it a little easier, but thing seem to change at the company's will and our union says nothing about it.

 

For those of you out there that blame our local union for this, you really shouldn't. Our bargaining committee isn't smart enough to come up with something like this, it had to come from up north. After our elected officials get voted out next May, the ones that can retire, will they retire??? Or will they go work on the assembly line, because there are no machining jobs open, IMST's have those....

[lepskilledtrades]

I certainly don't know where you got your information, but you are DEAD WRONG!!!!! When the job postings went up, they were posted by deptartment and by trade, i.e. 4 electricians - D35 Block line. They did not get enough people bid for the electrician's jobs, so they FORCED they junior electricians. I guess you could call them the "unwilling participants". As far as reading documentation, the is NO documentation. This is a fly by the seat of your pants "pilot" program.

 

Now that we've determined that some people aroound here are totally misinformed. Is the IMT program the future??? I think it is, until Ford management sees it fail miserably with the way they are trying to impliment it right now. We have several Honda plants around Lima, and the don't have anything like our IMT program. So, when they tell us that Honda is doing it, we know they're lying to us.

 

IMO, the biggest reason that people are angry about IMT is that there is no structure to it, no "DOCUMENTATION". If there were actually some rules as to the way things are supposed to be run, I think people could swallow it a little easier, but thing seem to change at the company's will and our union says nothing about it.

 

For those of you out there that blame our local union for this, you really shouldn't. Our bargaining committee isn't smart enough to come up with something like this, it had to come from up north. After our elected officials get voted out next May, the ones that can retire, will they retire??? Or will they go work on the assembly line, because there are no machining jobs open, IMST's have those....

The reason people did bid on those jobs wasb't because they wanted in on the program iy was to secure a certain job or shift! When the year is up that they are required to stay on that job you will be surprized of how many will get out of it and use their seniority to go back to their trades. then see how many are forced in to it! NOBODY should have been forced to do this! And we surely should have not been volunteered without our permission! NO RULES? what kind of job is that? The company is making all the rules and when we complain the union will do nothing to back us!!! They still have not implemented this PILOT program fully the way it's suppose to be so when will they find out it doen't work AFTER we vote on it?????

[lepskilledtrades]

Low seniority gets forced onto bids all the time, all around the county, and has happened like this for decades. There is nothing new to this.

Your right low seniority has it's downfalls but you shouldn't have to take a job that's not your classification and let outside contractors do your job and we do have outside contracting in our plant

[Pipefitter]

Ok,

I'll spell it out for ya..........

 

C.O.A.

WHIPSAWING

B. KING IS ALL FOR IT.(Trades running machines, or a spot on a line)

 

Ford definitely gets charged more by "outside contractors" (I worked on the "outside" for 20 yrs.) for doing work that we are capable of doing ourselves. It's all creative number reduction ( Ford has many time cut off their nose to spite their face). Same as combining Trades. You take skilled individual Trades, and turn them into handymen!

[beatdown]

I would like to say being a part of the Skilled Trades Production in the Vulcan V-6 and going into the new ISTP program that no one from the leadership in the Union or Management consulted the people that actually did the work and knew what worked and what didn't. There is no way that they can have a clue of what it takes to get where we got. I came from the area that made the most improvements in quality, productivity and total cost of the component. We fought bickered and worked through all our problems and became a single solid unit of productivity. we did not have a supervisor our team leader ran the floor and we had one member of management in our area that gave us what we needed to do our jobs. All of the people making the decisions in the ISTP program have no idea of what it took to get where we got. All of the Management and Union reps were too busy on the D35 to deal with us. We did what we did with the outcast management no Union reps to screw things up (with shitty ideas) surpassed everyones expectations. I would think that would be a hint and a half for your ass that the currant management and Union leadership couldn't find their ass with both hands. Yet they all take credit for something they no nothing about or were even involved in. The men and women that were involved in the Vulcan program took it upon themselves to make it work and prove a point that they did not need micro management they could do the job if Ford gave them the tools. Ford talks about empowerment yet they will not let free of the reins for fear that the workers will take over the floor and their jobs will only be in the office. I nor any other UAW worker is afraid to take responsibility of the production of our power-plants with the right leadership we can make FORD the envy of the world. Until they deal with their bureaucratic corporate management structure they will never excel above the competition.

[Furious1Auto]

Are you guys still getting paid union scale for trades, or have they lowered your pay to equal that of the non-skilled hourly's?

[rawselectrician]

i have already chewed my chairmans head off about this a few times. i did not spend 4 years as someones slave juet to be put back on the line with no bumping rights. not to mention this makes us part time tradesmen/tradeswomen. i will either work as a full time tradesman or a full time production person. dont even think im gonna do both!!! so when the line breaksdown everyone gets to go on break except us who have to stay and get the line running? after all that mind numbing production work who know what ill forget how to do. and to all the production people who think we are whining about this FUCK OFF. we earned our jobs for 4 years. you were handed a job right out of orientation

[Furious1Auto]

i have already chewed my chairmans head off about this a few times. i did not spend 4 years as someones slave juet to be put back on the line with no bumping rights. not to mention this makes us part time tradesmen/tradeswomen. i will either work as a full time tradesman or a full time production person. dont even think im gonna do both!!! so when the line breaksdown everyone gets to go on break except us who have to stay and get the line running? after all that mind numbing production work who know what ill forget how to do. and to all the production people who think we are whining about this FUCK OFF. we earned our jobs for 4 years. you were handed a job right out of orientation

Your not going to get much sympathy that way, lineman!

[lepskilledtrades]

Are you guys still getting paid union scale for trades, or have they lowered your pay to equal that of the non-skilled hourly's?

Actually when this originaly started it was because our 3.0 vulcan was nearing it's end and we didn't have enough people to run the 3.0 vulcan and the new D-35 at the same time. Since the company did not want to put new tempory employees in the machining department in the 3.0 vulcan our union asked the trades if the extra trades not needed at the time would run machining and allow the temps to run assembly. While the trades were running the machining department they also ran calls for the down machines in their depatment. In our meetings before we were allowed to vote on this, our union told us this was only a tempory agreement to last only till the 3.0 vulcan was done. They also told us we would get a $.70 per hour raise for doing this. The trades were very concerned that if they did this on a tempory basis that the company would try and take this program and do it on the D-35 side. Our union chairman and commitee assured us that they would never allow it to go to the new side and that this was ONLY for the vulcan. When the 3.0 was nearing it's end we were told that the union volunteered us and agreed to allow the company to use this system on the D-35 as a pilot program. When we reminded our chairman that he told everyone that he assured us that he would not let this happen he didn't remember saying that!!! Even though there was 100+ trades, that was envolved, heard him!! But this time we don't get to vote on this!!!and we don't get to keep our $.70 raise!! So they put up bids for all these IMST jobs and told us that if no one bid on these they would just force junior trades in these jobs. So most of the junior trades bid on these (because they knew they going to be forced) to either obtain a certain job or shift' We had a few higher seniority people bid on these and now they are counting the days when their required (year to stay) is up because they want OUT!! They have said they didn't realize what they were getting themselves into!! They rest were filled by forcing people into it. So now the trades have to run machines full time and when something breaks they also have to go and fix it then go back to running there machines. Can you believe our union agreed to this and didn't even ask our input on this!! They seem to have forgotten who they work for!! But we certain will remind them come election time!! Oh yes they are still getting their trades pay because I don't think they could mess with that even if they wanted to but who knows what will happen at contract time.

Edited August 27, 2007 by lepskilledtrades

[lepskilledtrades]

Are you guys still getting paid union scale for trades, or have they lowered your pay to equal that of the non-skilled hourly's?

Actually when this originaly started it was because our 3.0 vulcan was nearing it's end and we didn't have enough people to run the 3.0 vulcan and the new D-35 at the same time. Since the company did not want to put new tempory employees in the machining department in the 3.0 vulcan our union asked the trades if the extra trades not needed at the time would run machining and allow the temps to run assembly. While the trades were running the machining department they also ran calls for the down machines in their depatment. In our meetings before we were allowed to vote on this, our union told us this was only a tempory agreement to last only till the 3.0 vulcan was done. They also told us we would get a $.70 per hour raise for doing this. The trades were very concerned that if they did this on a tempory basis that the company would try and take this program and do it on the D-35 side. Our union chairman and commitee assured us that they would never allow it to go to the new side and that this was ONLY for the vulcan. When the 3.0 was nearing it's end we were told that the union volunteered us and agreed to allow the company to use this system on the D-35 as a pilot program. When we reminded our chairman that he told everyone that he assured us that he would not let this happen he didn't remember saying that!!! Even though there was 100+ trades, that was envolved, heard him!! But this time we don't get to vote on this!!!and we don't get to keep our $.70 raise!! So they put up bids for all these IMST jobs and told us that if no one bid on these they would just force junior trades in these jobs. So most of the junior trades bid on these (because they knew they going to be forced) to either obtain a certain job or shift' We had a few higher seniority people bid on these and now they are counting the days when their required (year to stay) is up because they want OUT!! They have said they didn't realize what they were getting themselves into!! They rest were filled by forcing people into it. So now the trades have to run machines full time and when something breaks they also have to go and fix it then go back to running there machines. Can you believe our union agreed to this and didn't even ask our input on this!! They seem to have forgotten who they work for!! But we certain will remind them come election time!!