lepskilledtrades Posted September 14, 2007 Author Share Posted September 14, 2007 i am curious to know in which decade did lep have nearly 500 trades? the facility did have almost 4800 employees in 1979 when they produced a v8/the i6 and the ohc 4cyl. the reason for piloting a program is to work out the details on the plant floor. a number of trades(toomakers/cutter grind/pipefitters)with low seniority were in the gen pool. this pilot program gave them the opportunity to continue working as a ford employee as those trades were deemed no longer necessary. the data proved that it was inefficient to continue to pay employees 8-12 hrs daily while receiving 2-4 hrs of work. the local at lep has all of the data for anyone to see and the company has produced quite a convincing case. once again it is a brave new world--change or die. We are curious to know how you know what data our local has and what the company has for a case because no data has ever been released or shown or even talked about at our plant? Are you trying to say there isn't enough work for the machine repair, electricians or toolmakers? What plant are you from? Maybe if our union wouldn't stand on the sidelines and allow the company to outsource all the jobs maybe there would be work for them!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 We are curious to know how you know what data our local has and what the company has for a case because no data has ever been released or shown or even talked about at our plant? Are you trying to say there isn't enough work for the machine repair, electricians or toolmakers? What plant are you from? Maybe if our union wouldn't stand on the sidelines and allow the company to outsource all the jobs maybe there would be work for them!! VOTE NO ON IMT PROGRAMS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfinger4 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 VOTE NO ON IMT PROGRAMS!!! Not working like the company thought it would? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Not working like the company thought it would? absolutely not!!! Bad part is our union is pushing this!!! Also you get stuck in a department with very little chance of getting out of regardless of seniority and you can't equalize overtime with any of the regular trades that you are. And the union still after a year can't determine how overtime is handled. Posibly look for this IMT crap on the contract!! VOTE NO!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Bennet Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) I totally agree to try new ideas to become more efficent but I don't think that even Toyota or Honda has their skilled trades running machinery. They got where they are at by good design and smart leadership Honda and Toyota DO have smart design and good leadership BUT ALSO the machine operators are trained to repair and maintain their machinery The more I read about this contract, the more I am convinced Toyota was the hand that wrote it Edited October 5, 2007 by Harry Bennet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Honda and Toyota DO have smart design and good leadership BUT ALSO the machine operators are trained to repair and maintain their machinery GEMA in Dundee does it as well. In fact, you must either hold a Journeyman's card or have a bachelors degree to be hired to work on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioDiesel Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 GEMA in Dundee does it as well. In fact, you must either hold a Journeyman's card or have a bachelors degree to be hired to work on the line. A Journeyman's card or an Associates degree from all I've read. The journeypeople don't like this system because when a non journeyperson cannot properly fix their machine, which is often, the journeyperson already running and having their machine running good is put on the broken down machine and the non journeyperson takes over their machine. The journeypeople are sometimes constantly always just fixing breakdowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 A Journeyman's card or an Associates degree from all I've read. The journeypeople don't like this system because when a non journeyperson cannot properly fix their machine, which is often, the journeyperson already running and having their machine running good is put on the broken down machine and the non journeyperson takes over their machine. The journeypeople are sometimes constantly always just fixing breakdowns. Ooops. I typed bachelors. My bad. It is an associates, and that is what I meant to say. A couple of people from my plant that took the buyout got hired in there. They absolutely hate it, and some have moved on. I'm glad they called me for my interview after my buyout expired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scmustang Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 We are curious to know how you know what data our local has and what the company has for a case because no data has ever been released or shown or even talked about at our plant? Are you trying to say there isn't enough work for the machine repair, electricians or toolmakers? What plant are you from? Maybe if our union wouldn't stand on the sidelines and allow the company to outsource all the jobs maybe there would be work for them!! sorry for the delay in my reply-the data is available if you know who to ask/and you do-i never stated that there wasn't enough work for mach. repair or electricians-personally know toolmakers and other trades who are grateful for the imt program so that they are not on the outside looking in-i am on the floor every day and i know who you are-we both have quite a reputation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfinger4 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 absolutely not!!! Bad part is our union is pushing this!!! Also you get stuck in a department with very little chance of getting out of regardless of seniority and you can't equalize overtime with any of the regular trades that you are. And the union still after a year can't determine how overtime is handled. Posibly look for this IMT crap on the contract!! VOTE NO!!!! Do you still have many supervisors in your IMT run areas? In Windsor it sounds like they want to get rid of almost all supervision and have "self managed teams". I think it will not work quite the way they think and thats why I asked. Thanks ....I know my opinion won't sway what they do or try to do, but who's going to police the doggers, how do we share OT, just make it up as we go... Like Biodiesel said the tradesperson who is on the team is going to be busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 Honda and Toyota DO have smart design and good leadership BUT ALSO the machine operators are trained to repair and maintain their machineryThe more I read about this contract, the more I am convinced Toyota was the hand that wrote it I know many people that work at Honda and yes they are trained to do MINOR maintenance which means tighten a loose bolt etc... They do NOT repair their machines They still have their trades to do strictly trade work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 sorry for the delay in my reply-the data is available if you know who to ask/and you do-i never stated that there wasn't enough work for mach. repair or electricians-personally know toolmakers and other trades who are grateful for the imt program so that they are not on the outside looking in-i am on the floor every day and i know who you are-we both have quite a reputation No you don't know who I am (which I don't care)and you might have a reputation but I don't. Our chairman told us that the reason for IMT was to keep us working so if there is enough work for the MR and electricians then why is the IMT program 95% those trades?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 sorry for the delay in my reply-the data is available if you know who to ask/and you do-i never stated that there wasn't enough work for mach. repair or electricians-personally know toolmakers and other trades who are grateful for the imt program so that they are not on the outside looking in-i am on the floor every day and i know who you are-we both have quite a reputation How many other trades are we talking about ? 15 or 20 or more like 3 or 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 Do you still have many supervisors in your IMT run areas? In Windsor it sounds like they want to get rid of almost all supervision and have "self managed teams". I think it will not work quite the way they think and thats why I asked. Thanks ....I know my opinion won't sway what they do or try to do, but who's going to police the doggers, how do we share OT, just make it up as we go... Like Biodiesel said the tradesperson who is on the team is going to be busy. I'm not against self-managed teams I'm against making trades run machines or work on the assembly line and still perform their trade. And then contract out their trade jobs!!. If you give up the trades job to outside contractors and the a trade takes a machine operators job and then the machine operator takes an assembler's job , where does the assembler go? DUH !!! Out the f(*&%^ door!!! Just PROTECT the trades jobs!!! Our union hasn't figured out how to handle the overtime yet even though we have been doing this system for 3 months!!! VOTE NO on IMT!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scmustang Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 No you don't know who I am (which I don't care)and you might have a reputation but I don't. Our chairman told us that the reason for IMT was to keep us working so if there is enough work for the MR and electricians then why is the IMT program 95% those trades?? i absolutely know who you are-never said that my reputation was a poor one-lets respond with data and not just emotion and drama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedot Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 if you both know who the other is why don't you just get together and hash this out? and then try to make the system better? there is a lot of energy going on between you two, talk to your representatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 Honda and Toyota DO have smart design and good leadership BUT ALSO the machine operators are trained to repair and maintain their machineryThe more I read about this contract, the more I am convinced Toyota was the hand that wrote it That is absolutely false I know a lot of production workers at Honda and they only do minor repairs on their machines. They did not tAKE THE PLACE OF THEIR TRADES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 i absolutely know who you are-never said that my reputation was a poor one-lets respond with data and not just emotion and drama i NEVER SAID YOUR REPUTATION WAS POOR EITHER? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedope Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 i NEVER SAID YOUR REPUTATION WAS POOR EITHER? I know who both of you are and I believe that both of you have #$%^&*-up reputations. I'm the only one with a spot free rep!!!!! Now go to neutral corners. When the bell rings, come out fight-n!!! From another @#$%^&-up LEP Tradesman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) I know who both of you are and I believe that both of you have #$%^&*-up reputations. I'm the only one with a spot free rep!!!!! Now go to neutral corners. When the bell rings, come out fight-n!!! From another @#$%^&-up LEP Tradesman Well Pipe dope, and SCMustang what do you think of this IMT system that are union volunteered us for and are you einvolved in it? Edited October 10, 2007 by lepskilledtrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood1969 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 All I know is ther is plenty of work in tear out of the old V-6 line to keep us busy for a while. what is bullshit is I'm doing a producion job but can't use my production time to hold days, and so I have no chance in HELL of getting back to days. Are union has fed us a line of shit and unfortunetly most of the rank and file bopught into it. I tried telling the production people to not let this happen becouse trades would be taking their jobs but they laughed at me and said no way. Now they are pissed becouse we did. I just remind them that production voted this crap in trades voted it down, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) All I know is ther is plenty of work in tear out of the old V-6 line to keep us busy for a while. what is bullshit is I'm doing a producion job but can't use my production time to hold days, and so I have no chance in HELL of getting back to days. Are union has fed us a line of shit and unfortunetly most of the rank and file bopught into it. I tried telling the production people to not let this happen becouse trades would be taking their jobs but they laughed at me and said no way. Now they are pissed becouse we did. I just remind them that production voted this crap in trades voted it down, Amen!! Yea it's bullshit that trades has to work production jobs but don't get credit for production time!!! Hopefully production will wise up and vote this IMT crap down this time around. Yes there is plenty of work for trades but the union has oked Machine repair doing millwright work, Millwright doing electrician work, Pipefitter doing Machine Repair work etc.etc.etc... If the company needed people for production then they should have taken the certain trades they had no work for and put them in production not the trades that are swamped!! But put them in on a TEMPORARY basis not permanent!!! When push comes to shove if it comes down to keeping trades as a production worker or a production worker as a production worker who do you think the company will keep? The union combined the production and trades votes last time to get this to pass let's all see what they pull at contract time to get it to pass this time!! VOTE NO ON IMT PROGRAMS!! Edited October 10, 2007 by lepskilledtrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedope Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Well Pipe dope, and SCMustang what do you think of this IMT system that are union volunteered us for and are you einvolved in it? I believe that IMT is totally screwed up. First of all, we have some great production workers in our plant. Why would they want to limit themselves to a lifetime of assembly work without only a slim chance to move into machining. I'm sure that there are many who like assembly, I mean no disrespect to them, but why limit themselves. Secondly, Those who think that they will be able to do IMTP maintenance, they are going to get stuck just like the IMTS. They will do twice the work for the same pay. Its no picnic being LEP maintenance these days. "The company has no respect for your skill, your work ethic, or your dedication to your job. They want things to run and if they could pay bananas to a trained monkey to fix machines they would!" Tear out isn't going to save anyones job. It is GEN labor pool so that LEP can say they don't pay people to set around and do nothing. Look- all the production workers at LEP have a job in the new line. They have temps still. Why would you believe that this IMT program is going to be anything but a jip. Everything that 1219 and LEP comes up with usually is. There is always something in it for them but the worker gets the business end of the stick. I just think that IMT will be screwed up just like everything else that LEP comes up with. No respect for your dedication to the job you do, just more work. We are going backwards. Everything that labor wants has to be a fight, while the company whines that they need more. Its your choice. You have to live with your decisions, good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 The reason people did bid on those jobs wasb't because they wanted in on the program iy was to secure a certain job or shift! When the year is up that they are required to stay on that job you will be surprized of how many will get out of it and use their seniority to go back to their trades. then see how many are forced in to it! NOBODY should have been forced to do this! And we surely should have not been volunteered without our permission! NO RULES? what kind of job is that? The company is making all the rules and when we complain the union will do nothing to back us!!! They still have not implemented this PILOT program fully the way it's suppose to be so when will they find out it doen't work AFTER we vote on it????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedope Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Right-on Lepskilledtrades. They will try to sneak it past we "ignant" folk who don't know what is best for us. TRUST the 1219 leadership "BROTHER" they wouldn't ever do anything that wasn't in your best interest. Don't you know that? Shoot- Maybe they will even help us get rehired back in at the new lower tier wage package when we get laid off. All because they are just that kind of top shelf, brotherly, responsible, self sacrificing, non-partison, fair minded, trades loving local union representation. Matter of fact, If I wasn't married already, I would think that they were trying to get engaged to us all. Then we could get married, have little "BABY BROTHERS" and live happily-ever-after in whatever drug induced state that they live in all the time. I venture to say they we are not all that "ignant" as we were the last time they pulled a local contract out of their backside and said that this was the best for us. ""AT LEAST I HOPE NOT!!!!!!"" The only ones that it was best for was their own. We need to seriously consider the consequences of our actions this time or we won't have a chance the next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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