GM ON STRIKE!!!

[el norte]

Mettech,

 

Sorry don't want it to seem as if I am attacking you. that is not my objective. I just do not think most people outside the industry understands what these companies are about. They wish to squeeze every penny they can on the backs of the workers. Nobody ever mentions all the health and safety changes the UAW made happen. Take a look back and see how many people used to die working in these factories.

 

Also, I GREATLY appreciate all that you and your fellow servicemen do and have done for our country. I myself served in the Army 17 years ago. As you mentioned before, compensation for a good year and sacrifice for a bad year. Imagine if the Military pay scale worked the same. The war in Iraq is not going well, take a pay cut. When we finally win, get a raise. That sounds insane to me. Your doing the same job in good times and bad. Ford needs to design cars that people want and they will make a profit. They should not blame it on us.

 

Good luck and God bless all the people serving our country. Come home safe!

i have to second your statement. i was in the navy for four years and made 10k a year. it just wasnt enough for me to survive on in oakland ca. i left the navy to work for ford, and i dont like outsiders telling us uaw member what we should be doing, or how we should be doing our business. your analogy of a service member taking a pay cut is right on! i fully support our millitary personel. i worked on a carrier, and will have to say it was the hardest damn job i've ever had! sorry if i have come across bitter, but these are tuff days!

[Makeastand]

A memo was passed around the plant about a year ago that said that the total cost for labor on our vehicles that we build at KTP was about $1600 per truck. Supposedly that includes managements salary as well. The media claims that cost is closer to $2500 per vehicle. Now with that being said, at my plant we build trucks that range between $35k-$65K. Management at my plant says Ford Motor company makes $10k-$20k profit per truck depending on features, 4wd, and cab size. We build a lot of fully loaded trucks. A total of 1200 trucks a day. Thats a slow day. Now, I can understand taking some cuts to "stay competitive", but no UAW worker should ever have to make huge concessions like GM is asking and threatening to move jobs over seas. They are the ones being unreasonable and should learn to bargain more fairly. Good luck to my brothers and sisters at GM. May God be with you.

[Xtremesynthetic]

I hope the truth doesn't bother you.

 

I think your version of the truth is clouded!!

[partsisparts]

I think your version of the truth is clouded!!

Show me where I am wrong.

[dark270]

Good, i was impressed by ron gettlefinger!

glad he has the guts to do this!

he should take all three out!

[Smartypants]

Yeh O.K. they wanted to reduce inventory without workers to build more once they've been reduced, genius!

SCREW YOU LOSER your always on here all hours of the day everyday do you even work oh no don't tell me your on medical leave right you sound like your one of those union know it alls who thinks he's special because he makes more money than the rest of the country. freakin' loser get a life and go to work okay I know your going to lie now and tell everyone how great your attendance is right we'll see when this strike lasts just long enough to reduce overstock and we'll see how fast they send them back to work !!!!!!!!! JERK

[OAC_Sparky]

SCREW YOU LOSER your always on here all hours of the day everyday do you even work oh no don't tell me your on medical leave right you sound like your one of those union know it alls who thinks he's special because he makes more money than the rest of the country. freakin' loser get a life and go to work okay I know your going to lie now and tell everyone how great your attendance is right we'll see when this strike lasts just long enough to reduce overstock and we'll see how fast they send them back to work !!!!!!!!! JERK

You don't sound like too much of a "smartypants" now.

[davdog]

Thank you... I am back at home... for now...

 

I hope the outcome with the contract will beneficial for all.

 

 

Oh for cripes sake you're a weather forecaster in the USAF, as was my brother-in-law when we were both in together. You might as well be in a civilian gig for all the action you see. At least the flight line guys might see a mortar or something; you on the other hand didn't see shit. So don't come on here during the tough times these guys have ahead and shoot your shit.

 

I know I argued with them prior to today, but as of today I am not going to add anything to what is already on their minds. Why don't you do the same thing and just go back to your oh so tough duties of providing forecasts for pilots and what not.

 

Serve your country my ass, you joined in '82, I was in then too, the only war going on was the cold war which meant other then flying practice sorties we weren't doing much other then regular maintainence. 25 years in with 5 to go, why don't you just keep your opinions to yourself during these tough times.

[Xtremesynthetic]

SCREW YOU LOSER your always on here all hours of the day everyday do you even work oh no don't tell me your on medical leave right you sound like your one of those union know it alls who thinks he's special because he makes more money than the rest of the country. freakin' loser get a life and go to work okay I know your going to lie now and tell everyone how great your attendance is right we'll see when this strike lasts just long enough to reduce overstock and we'll see how fast they send them back to work !!!!!!!!! JERK

 

 

You sound like you have had childhood issues. I will pray for you.

Why are you so unhappy in your life, please don't blame this on the strike.

[Ktp1989]

Do you really think Gm would be in favor of a strike that, according to CNBC cost them $100,000,000 per day, to lessen the inventory on the lots. Don't think that's the case.

[Xtremesynthetic]

Do you really think Gm would be in favor of a strike that, according to CNBC cost them $100,000,000 per day, to lessen the inventory on the lots. Don't think that's the case.

 

I don't think anyone wants a strike on either side. If you shut down the plants for a short period of time and save on all the energy costs, and not pay any wages. That could end up saving GM millions and that could end up being a benefit for GM.

 

If it drags out past the month mark or their inventories diminish, that is when GM will need to start bargining again.

 

I think the figures that CNBC are quoting are a little blowated. Just like today when all the news groups stated that their was an agreement! They acted before they obtained the correct information.

[DSenstad]

Do you really think Gm would be in favor of a strike that, according to CNBC cost them $100,000,000 per day, to lessen the inventory on the lots. Don't think that's the case.

 

Be very careful when quoting something like that.

 

What they are saying is they have the opportunity to make money. That opportunity is lost when the plants are idle; therefore they are losing that money.

 

Think of it this way. When they have to high of numbers sitting on the lots they lay people off. They have to pay unemployment insurance while these people are off. Are they losing $100,000,000 while they have people on lay off? No. You are being manipulated.

[feegsit]

It's amazing that we bitch and complain about how lazy and greedy our Union has become and the moment they finally show a backbone, UAW members are still unhappy. Do us a favor if you don't agree with the UAW, LEAVE! Put on a vest and switch sides already. We've made enough concessions that contradicted the last contract to give up anything more.

 

Good luck to my Union Brothers and Sisters who work for GM.

He could always quit and go work for G.M. They'll probably be hiring more temps in a few weeks. We'll see what he thinks about the union then!!

[feegsit]

Wait just a minute did I hear Ronny say GM wanted to limit profit sharing and that was the big issue.

Why would the company want to limit profit sharing if not for the fact that they know there gonna make near record profits very soon!! :shades: :stats:

Lets see here half the 60% of the workforce is gone since 1999 when we got $8,000 avg. So when they make the same amount as 1999 we would get over $21,000 avg. check right??? $8000 X 110,000 workers=almost $900 mills. 900 mills /42,000=almost 900 mills.

The union needs to do a better job explaining the issues to the media!! Maybe hire a professional PR person.

That money will probably be used for Executive bonuses!

[feegsit]

First, I'll bet you drive a forgein car built in the U.S. Secondly, the non big 3 who build cars in the U.S. have nearly the same benefits as UAW workers thanks to the UAW. The big 3 just have more retirees, why do you think the toyotas of the world hope we give in.

They were/are given the bennies to keep the union out. Pending the outcome of the strike this could all be subject to change. Don't think for a minute that if we lose bennies that they won't!

[feegsit]

Apparently, research on me was not used as the base for your commit. "Yet another quote from somebody who doesn't have a clue."

 

As an investor in GM and Ford, I too have money riding on this topic.

 

" If you think that an auto worker is overpaid, your making that judgment based on ignorance."

I don't think that an "auto worker" is overpaid, but I do say compared to the rest of the U.S. of A. blue-collar factory work force, an UAW member is compensated extremely well. I also believe that strong concessions are needed from the UAW. Not just for the economics factor, but also for the Public Relations view.

 

When profits return, so should the UAW benefits and pay. Not until then.

 

skittet150

Please do at least "some" research on the person or subject before you start a personal attack.

Keyword here is "INVESTOR" in Gm & Ford! Please explain the difference between your perception of being "overpaid" and"compensated extremely well". I believe you're on the wrong forum.

[feegsit]

I'm a NCO in the USAF since 1982. My small investments in GM and Ford supports my interest in the auto industry and your job. God knows that other than GM this past year, I've not made much out of the Ford investment. :shades:

 

Don't bite the had that helps to feed you.

Who's hand is FEEDING who?

[feegsit]

hasn't anyone thought that GM wanted this strike so they can get rid of some of there overstocked inventory. It's been said many times that a short strike would benifit GM. Maybe they just got what they wanted!!!!!!!!!!

A friend at GM says there is a 120 day supply of cars!

[diablos30]

good luck guys and gals. this crap of overpaying ceo's and making it up by screwing the working man has to stop.

[Furious1Auto]

SCREW YOU LOSER your always on here all hours of the day everyday do you even work oh no don't tell me your on medical leave right you sound like your one of those union know it alls who thinks he's special because he makes more money than the rest of the country. freakin' loser get a life and go to work okay I know your going to lie now and tell everyone how great your attendance is right we'll see when this strike lasts just long enough to reduce overstock and we'll see how fast they send them back to work !!!!!!!!! JERK

You sound angry poopypants, so minus your ineffective personal attack tell me exactly how this was their plan. Your a f-cking moron!

[Furious1Auto]

A friend at GM says there is a 120 day supply of cars!

All automakers overbuild at contract time. This has been the norm for years, but to suggest that GM wants a strike is plane idiotic!

[TanksRus]

IMHO, the focus should be on profit sharing. When the profits return, so should your compensation.

 

The UAW should ask them to take an equal cut.

 

"...This has been and will always be about the UAW attempting to at least control their GREED plain and simple...."

 

Do you control their greed with UAW greed?

 

When times are good, everyone should share... When times are bad, everyone should sacrifice.

 

That's funny, Ford lost 12.7 BILLION dollars last year, yet they gave upper management multi-million dollar bonuses. Does that sound like they "sacrificed"? In the press confrence today Gettelfinger said they brought up the bonuses to upper management, but GM didn't want to talk about it. You may be a share holder but this is my families future and well-being we are talking about so kindly butt out.

[kpc655]

Do you really think Gm would be in favor of a strike that, according to CNBC cost them $100,000,000 per day, to lessen the inventory on the lots. Don't think that's the case.

 

I wonder what that number includes. If its only the daily fixed costs..then so what. They've got to pay it regardless. I'm assuming GM doesnt have to pay workers when they are striking..is that right? if so then they are SAVING all those costs as well as the normal costs of production (components etc.). Might actually be a win for GM in the short term to reduce inventory. This is of course ignoring the long term effects on supplier costs, product development leadtimes etc. GM has too much capacity but it made sense to keep churning out vehicles because the cost to not do so was virtually the same.

 

Now they just need to address the watered down over branding and the labor costs..but it appears that is "in work".

 

Next up...ford?

[mettech]

Oh for cripes sake you're a weather forecaster in the USAF, as was my brother-in-law when we were both in together. You might as well be in a civilian gig for all the action you see. At least the flight line guys might see a mortar or something; you on the other hand didn't see shit. So don't come on here during the tough times these guys have ahead and shoot your shit.

 

I know I argued with them prior to today, but as of today I am not going to add anything to what is already on their minds. Why don't you do the same thing and just go back to your oh so tough duties of providing forecasts for pilots and what not.

 

Serve your country my ass, you joined in '82, I was in then too, the only war going on was the cold war which meant other then flying practice sorties we weren't doing much other then regular maintainence. 25 years in with 5 to go, why don't you just keep your opinions to yourself during these tough times.

 

I don't support USAF aircraft as a "Combat Weather Forecaster". I am assigned to an Army Light Infantry unit.

 

"....you on the other hand didn't see shit...."

That's strange, I thought I have.

 

P.M. me your brother-in-law name. I might know him. And ask him what's like supporting the Army compared to USAF.

[Ovaltine]

good luck guys and gals. this crap of overpaying ceo's and making it up by screwing the working man has to stop.

 

 

Based on the myriad of reports containing additional facts similar to those quoted below, I say this to the management of the Big 3:

 

Go ahead and demand concessions from the UAW that allow you to compete with foreign competition. It is inevitable that it comes down to this anyway.

 

BUT..... do NOT ask for such concessions unless you yourself (i.e. Management and white collar emps) AREN'T willing to also take proportionate cuts from your OWN salaries and benefits. And just going for the white collar admin and engineers isn't good enough. I'm talking ALL positions, right up to the CEO.

 

If the suits aren't willing to truly share the pain, then "let the place burn" (figuratively speaking, of course).

 

-Ovaltine

 

 

http://www.cab.latech.edu/~mkroll/510_pape...l_05/Group6.pdf

 

By Dr. Mark Kroll

November 17, 2005

 

"The American dream is one of upward mobility. US citizens believe that if one works hard, and plays by the rules they can ensure themselves the quality of life that they desire. Recently, the dream toward upward mobility has been limited to a select class of corporate executives that have received record levels of compensation in recent years.

 

Today American Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) are paid outrageously large amounts of money compared to foreign CEOs who essentially perform similar jobs as their American counterparts. AFL-CIO Secretary Treasurer Richard Trumka said "what looks excessive in the context of US workers is truly outrageous when viewed globally. The global economy is not working for working families when boards of directors hand US CEOs tens of millions of dollars while paying the people who actually do the work less than ten dollars a day” (Burton 2005).

 

CEOs total pay packages have continued to spiral upward over the years, even though thousands of average employees lose their jobs, corporate profits fall, and shareholders lose money. An executive compensation package is typically comprised of total base salary, yearly bonuses and benefits, stock-options, and anticipated value of long-term projects. Base salary is generally a fixed component that is the value an organization attributes to the position, and is usually relevant to the labor market, but may vary based on performance.

 

Chief Executive Officers are continually reaping larger and larger benefits each year. Over the past two years the average compensation among the top 200 companies has increases thirty-seven percent. At the end of 2003 the average CEO compensation was almost ten million dollars, excluding profits made on stock."

 

"The CEO pay rate among American public companies is outrageous. They are receiving astronomical amounts of money compared to the average American worker. Meanwhile, the average full-time worker over the age of 25 struggles to get by on a mere $683 a week, an increase of less that one percent over the last year (Chattman 2005).

 

Compared to the pay rate of an average CEO, the average full-time worker would have to work in the upwards of 385 years to make what a CEO receives in one year. During the 1980s the pay gap between CEO and ordinary factory workers grew from 42 times to almost 85 times (Byrne 1991). In 2004 CEOs in the United States made over 475 times as much as the average worker. Compared to the pay ratio between US CEOs and US average workers, other countries ratios between the two are significantly lower, as indicated in the chart below.

 

Country

Ratio of CEO pay to average worker pay

 

Japan

11:1

 

Germany

12:1

 

France

15:1

 

Italy

20:1

 

Canada

20:1

 

South Africa

21:1

 

Britain

22:1

 

Hong Kong

41:1

 

Mexico

47:1

 

Venezuela

50:1

 

United States

475:1"

 

 

"America’s corporate executives get paid huge sums of money for the work that they do, whether in salary, bonuses, or options. From research findings of statistics and the opinions of others it seems apparent that American chief executive officers are paid more in relation to the rest of the world. The exact reason for this difference in compensation between the U.S. and foreign CEOs can not be totally explained. "

Edited September 25, 2007 by Ovaltine