theoldwizard Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Before I left Ford last year, I was close friends with some folks working on the 6.0L 2008 E-series. I asked them why they were putting an "old engine" in a new vehicle ? The answer was "Because the 6.4L doesn't fit in the E-Series !" I guess the 2 turbos is just too big ! There was lots of discussion about the 4.4L going in the F250 and E250 as well as the F150. F150 is first priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) Before I left Ford last year, I was close friends with some folks working on the 6.0L 2008 E-series. I asked them why they were putting an "old engine" in a new vehicle ? The answer was "Because the 6.4L doesn't fit in the E-Series !" I guess the 2 turbos is just too big ! There was lots of discussion about the 4.4L going in the F250 and E250 as well as the F150. F150 is first priority. I could have told you that. Have you ever seen that engine. Its huge! It barely fits in the super duty. The 4.4 would, IMO, be a much better fit for the E series. Edited January 1, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 6.0L was also a TT setup. Imagine if it was a DOHC setup (as Ford initially requested)? It would be the engine that ate the pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 6.0L was also a TT setup. Imagine if it was a DOHC setup (as Ford initially requested)? It would be the engine that ate the pickup. I thought the 6.0 was only a single turbo. I'm almost sure of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I thought the 6.0 was only a single turbo. I'm almost sure of it. My mistake--it's the VVT they debuted on that engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I could have told you that. Have you ever seen that engine. Its huge! It barely fits in the super duty. The 4.4 would, IMO, be a much better fit for the E series. But it makes no sense. Ford could have redesigned the front 1/3 of the frame to accommodate the engine. They did that in '03 with the Panthers...just so the DOHC would fit in a Mercury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 But it makes no sense. Ford could have redesigned the front 1/3 of the frame to accommodate the engine. They did that in '03 with the Panthers...just so the DOHC would fit in a Mercury. DOHC already fit the suspension up grade was just a routine Suspension up grade. They wanted to get rid of the recurculating Ball Steering box that dated back to the 1960's and go to rack and pinion. There are far less parts in the new suspension than the old one. I wonder if Ford has adressed the numerous issues with the 6.0L. Could be why the Diesel it is such late avalibillty. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 DOHC already fit the suspension up grade was just a routine Suspension up grade. They wanted to get rid of the recurculating Ball Steering box that dated back to the 1960's and go to rack and pinion. There are far less parts in the new suspension than the old one. There were the suspension improvements as well, but the DOHC fit a whole lot better (meaning a lot less work). I wonder if Ford has addressed the numerous issues with the 6.0L. Could be why the diesel it is such late availability. Matthew I think the only issue of late was the fact that Ford was throwing a hissy fit over the repairs they had to pay for when their product broke down; and as part of their tantrum, they decided that they were not going to pay Navistar for the 6.4. Navistar, then cut the supply of 6.0 and 6.4 diesels. Ford, then, went crying to mommy and she told Navistar to resume the supply of 6.4s. I think just recently they have also resumed the supply of 6.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 There were the suspension improvements as well, but the DOHC fit a whole lot better (meaning a lot less work).I think the only issue of late was the fact that Ford was throwing a hissy fit over the repairs they had to pay for when their product broke down; and as part of their tantrum, they decided that they were not going to pay Navistar for the 6.4. Navistar, then cut the supply of 6.0 and 6.4 diesels. Ford, then, went crying to mommy and she told Navistar to resume the supply of 6.4s. I think just recently they have also resumed the supply of 6.0. Yeah...thats exactly how it happened :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) Yeah...thats exactly how it happened :rolleyes: How would you spin it to make Ford look like the one who is not at fault? Their product broke down...thus Ford should pay to fix it. It doesn't say "Navistar" on the front of the truck... Edited January 1, 2008 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 How would you spin it to make Ford look like the one who is not at fault? Not at fault for what? They paid their portion of the warranty claims. In fact they paid all of it. They were simply asking for compensation from Navistar because the 6.0 was not nearly as reliable as it was supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Their product broke down...thus Ford should pay to fix it. It doesn't say "Navistar" on the front of the truck... And Navistar built the engine. I'm sure they have some kind of liability in it. It probably says Navistar somewhere . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) ...Their product broke down...thus Ford should pay to fix it... And as far as I know they have. Edited January 1, 2008 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) ...Ford could have redesigned the front 1/3 of the frame to accommodate the engine... Sure, if they had made any money in the past 5 years. The 2008 is mostly just a re-style to make it look like the current F-Series. There never was a plan to put the 6.4L in the E-Series. The horsepower race forced Ford and Navistar into the twin turbo design of the 6.4L. Once that decision was made, it was pretty obvious that it would not fit in the E Series. Ford got "credits" from the EPA with the 6.4L which allows them to use the "dirty" 6.0L (in lower volume) in the E-Series, at least for some time. The 6.4L will not meet the next step in emissions (without major upgrades) coming down the road (2012 ?). Edited January 2, 2008 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 I thought the 6.0 was only a single turbo. I'm almost sure of it. Confirmed ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 The 6.4L will not meet the next step in emissions (without major upgrades) coming down the road (2012 ?). From what we know, its not supposed to be around then anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 ...I think the only issue of late was the fact that Ford was throwing a hissy fit over the repairs they had to pay for when their product broke down; and as part of their tantrum, they decided that they were not going to pay Navistar for the 6.4. Navistar, then cut the supply of 6.0 and 6.4 diesels. Ford, then, went crying to mommy and she told Navistar to resume the supply of 6.4s. I didn't know the 3rd branch of our government (the judiciary system) was also referred to as "mommy". Let's get the facts straight. There are/were 2 different law suits. The first was Ford against Navistar for non-payment of warranty sharing costs. This is still ongoing as far as I know. ...I think just recently they have also resumed the supply of 6.0... For a short time, Ford did stop payment on new engines. Navistar stop shipping. The judge told Ford to start paying and for Navistar to start shipping. This happened many months ago. The second lawsuit was filed by Navistar alleging Ford has used "proprietary" Navistar technology in the design of "future" diesel engine. (It is going to be hard to prove this as these engines don't "exist", accept in a development state.) I think this lawsuit is also ongoing. Sigh. Two companies in financial trouble "p!ssing" on each other shoes and the lawyers are getting rich. Whats scares me is most is that the military will be buying a lot of "bomb proof" vehicles equipped with Navistar engines ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Whats scares me is most is that the military will be buying a lot of "bomb proof" vehicles equipped with Navistar engines ! Why? Navistar engines are as reliable as the sunrise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) Why? Navistar engines are as reliable as the sunrise. Uh huh. You mean used to be. You can't blame all of the problems with Navistar's engines on Ford. Edited January 2, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Before I left Ford last year, I was close friends with some folks working on the 6.0L 2008 E-series. I asked them why they were putting an "old engine" in a new vehicle ? The answer was "Because the 6.4L doesn't fit in the E-Series !" I guess the 2 turbos is just too big ! There was lots of discussion about the 4.4L going in the F250 and E250 as well as the F150. F150 is first priority. IIRC, I read somewhere that the modifications to the front, how little they may be, allowed the 6.4L to fit into the E-series. I could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Uh huh. You mean used to be. You can't blame all of the problems with Navistar's engines on Ford. What engines...aside from the 6.0, are unreliable? The 6.4 perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 What engines...aside from the 6.0, are unreliable? The 6.4 perhaps? Oh, just the 6.0. It doesn't take much to tarnish an image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder2299of7839 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 are you kidding me? every time ford uses a navistar engine, they screw it up for a few years then read the recommendations from navistar later. the 6.0 PSD was crap, but why wasn't the navistar DT365 crap as well? it wasn't near as troubling. the 7.3 was a great engine but even then ford was screwing up a great thing. theT444e was/is rock solid, it took ford to screw it up with its add-ons (starving #8 cyl causing cackle, etc) hell even GM used the engine as a natural gas engine with no problems(G30?), yet ford cant get it right on the same fuel? Ford did this with the 6.9 and IDI 7.3 as well. everybody knows not to buy the first or second year of any ford diesel, and if they don't know its their own fault for not remembering history. BTW the new E-series doghouse treatment is hideous (not as hideous as the GM and Dodge/Freightliner/Damlier vans) but still way too much pig snout on a aging silk purse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Go figure. Strange, because Ford UK in Dagenham has produced a whole range of I-4 to V-8 diesels, some with partnership with Peugeot-Citroen, that don't seem to have had anything like those problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder2299of7839 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 ford's own brazillian diesels in medium duty trucks and also sold as new holland equipment motors had few if no issues as well. the mazda 2.0 diesel in the escort/tracer/tempo/topaz/626 was a great engine as well, but ford didnt screw with it either.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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