waymondospiff Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) Ordered by clearly identifiable "SUVs" and then the rest of the small wagons and such. Make Model - Dec 2007 - Total 2007 Ford Escape - 13,302 - 165,596 Mercury Mariner - 2,234 - 34,844 Mazda Tribute - 1,378 - 13,680 Mazda CX-7 - 3,487 - 41,659 Chevy Equinox - 7,704 - 89,552 Pontiac Torrent - 2,421 - 32,644 Saturn VUE - 8,328 - 84,767 (A good month for the new VUE.) Jeep Patriot - 4,987 - 40,434 Honda CR-V - 18,659 - 219,160 Toyota Rav4 - 13,816 - 172,752 Nissan Rogue - 6,288 - 17,808 Hyundai Tucson - 2,962 - 41,476 Kia Sportage - 5,109 - 49,393 Subaru Forester - 3,992 - 44,530 ------the rest of the CUV-type vehicles----- Mazda5 - 1,627 - 13,718 Kia Rondo - 1,872 - 26,020 Honda Element - 2,875 - 35,218 Subaru Outback - 5,817 - 56,079 Toyota Matrix - unknown, Matrix sales aren't broken out from the Corolla numbers Scion xA - 14 - 9,547 (out of production, replaced by xD) Scion xD - 1,638 - 10,948 Scion xB - 3,785 - 45,834 Dodge Caliber - 8,851 - 101,079 Chrysler PT Cruiser - 9,738 - 99,585 Jeep Compass - 3,295 - 39,491 Chevy HHR - 9,650 - 105,175 Pontiac Vibe - 3,345 - 37,170 Take what you will from the numbers. Overall, I think 165K for the Escape is a bit disappointing. However, add in the 35K Mariners, 13K Tributes, plus export volume and that's enough to keep Kansas City running at a good clip. Also interesting, the "heritage wagons" (PT/HHR) bring in about 100K a piece each year - that's hard-to-ignore volume in the heavily fragmented market. And my vehicle continues to do poorly - 13K for the Mazda5 this year. I'd like to think the 5spd AT, improved fuel economy, and slightly redone styling will drive sales this year...but I'm not holding my breath. Scott Edited to correct the Hyundai Tucson's sales. Edited January 4, 2008 by waymondospiff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim kakouris Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 the escape/mariner/tribute 214k (combined) is enough for a close second place in the segment, against completely modern competitors like the crv and rav4. i'm telling you, it's a much better vehicle than the "spec sheet" buffs say. all i have to do to remind myself that the general public doesn't buy on spec is to look at the corolla/impala/camry sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 the escape/mariner/tribute 214k (combined) is enough for a close second place in the segment, against completely modern competitors like the crv and rav4. i'm telling you, it's a much better vehicle than the "spec sheet" buffs say. all i have to do to remind myself that the general public doesn't buy on spec is to look at the corolla/impala/camry sales. But if we add up the Escape/Mariner/Tribute then I'd have to roll up the Caliber/Compass/Patriot and that just seems odd. On the whole I'd say that Mariner buyers probably aren't cross-shopping the Tribute...so I don't think wrapping up the three models into one number makes sense. That said, considering that the current Escape is the best Ford could do with seven years it is selling better than (I) expected. I really do think the reason the Escape continues to sell well is because the Escape still looks like a little truck, unlike the svelte & curvy competition. I'd say there is a not-insignificant number of people who'd like their little truck to look like a truck, not a bloated station wagon. Now if only the 3.5L V6 & 6-speed were offered, or the 2.5L 4cyl with a five-speed automatic. And a slightly upgraded interior. And a more-differentiated exterior so it didn't look so much like the 2001 Escape. Then we'd be talking. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 But if we add up the Escape/Mariner/Tribute then I'd have to roll up the Caliber/Compass/Patriot and that just seems odd. On the whole I'd say that Mariner buyers probably aren't cross-shopping the Tribute...so I don't think wrapping up the three models into one number makes sense. That said, considering that the current Escape is the best Ford could do with seven years it is selling better than (I) expected. I really do think the reason the Escape continues to sell well is because the Escape still looks like a little truck, unlike the svelte & curvy competition. I'd say there is a not-insignificant number of people who'd like their little truck to look like a truck, not a bloated station wagon. Now if only the 3.5L V6 & 6-speed were offered, or the 2.5L 4cyl with a five-speed automatic. And a slightly upgraded interior. And a more-differentiated exterior so it didn't look so much like the 2001 Escape. Then we'd be talking. Scott The Escape is actually very nice. I've driven it and there is really nothing to complain about. Also, I don't know where you see it, but it really looks nothing like the 2001 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 The Escape is actually very nice. I've driven it and there is really nothing to complain about. Also, I don't know where you see it, but it really looks nothing like the 2001 model. I don't see where he's coming from on that one either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 The Escape is actually very nice. I've driven it and there is really nothing to complain about. I haven't driven the Escape, but I'll believe that it drives nicely enough. My concern with powertrain is more about refinement (never a 3.0L Duratec strong point - except for the Jag 3.0 and the Mazda6's 3.0 isn't awful) and fuel economy: Toyota Rav4 FWD 3.5L 269hp - 19mpg city & 27mpg highway Ford Escape FWD 3.0L 200hp - 18mpg city & 24mpg highway Also, I don't know where you see it, but it really looks nothing like the 2001 model. I don't see where he's coming from on that one either. Seriously? 2008 Ford Escape Limited 2001 Ford Escape XLS Imagine if the color schemes were closer (admittedly it was hard to find similar promo shots at edmunds.com for the 2008 & 2001 models.) Is the 2008 different than the 2001? Undoubtedly. Do they look the same? Definitely. I think the Escape needs a new "look" all around. Keep the trucky thing going but start with a clean sheet...I mean really, it's been seven years! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) I haven't driven the Escape, but I'll believe that it drives nicely enough. My concern with powertrain is more about refinement (never a 3.0L Duratec strong point - except for the Jag 3.0 and the Mazda6's 3.0 isn't awful) and fuel economy: Toyota Rav4 FWD 3.5L 269hp - 19mpg city & 27mpg highway Ford Escape FWD 3.0L 200hp - 18mpg city & 24mpg highway Seriously? 2008 Ford Escape Limited 2001 Ford Escape XLS Imagine if the color schemes were closer (admittedly it was hard to find similar promo shots at edmunds.com for the 2008 & 2001 models.) Is the 2008 different than the 2001? Undoubtedly. Do they look the same? Definitely. I think the Escape needs a new "look" all around. Keep the trucky thing going but start with a clean sheet...I mean really, it's been seven years! Scott I really really don't see it except for the back angle. The doors, the beltline, the wheel arches, the mirrors, they are all different. Edited January 6, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I haven't driven the Escape, but I'll believe that it drives nicely enough. My concern with powertrain is more about refinement (never a 3.0L Duratec strong point - except for the Jag 3.0 and the Mazda6's 3.0 isn't awful) There is one thing I forgot, that engine does not sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 the escape/mariner/tribute 214k (combined) is enough for a close second place in the segment, against completely modern competitors like the crv and rav4. i'm telling you, it's a much better vehicle than the "spec sheet" buffs say. all i have to do to remind myself that the general public doesn't buy on spec is to look at the corolla/impala/camry sales. No the buyers of the Escape and Mariner buy them because they are bargain bin priced................People buy the CR-V and RAV4 because thedesire them and pay thousands more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) Andd lets be clear about something here, if you want to fool yourself into not seeing how the 08 Escape looks similar to the 01 Escape, you are retarded, and you lose any ounce of credibility you have because you have proven yourself to be a blind loyalist that lacks the mental capacity to have a valid opinion. Edited January 6, 2008 by DCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Andd lets be clear about something here, if you want to fool yourself into not seeing how the 08 Escape looks similar to the 01 Escape, you are retarded, and you lose any ounce of credibility you have because you have proven yourself to be a blind loyalist that lacks the mental capacity to have a valid opinion. Oh boy, now we're calling people retarded. What a grown up mode of criticism. The fact is that 08 Escape looks much more square than the 01. It is quite easy to see. When I look at it I don't even see the 01 because like most people, I don't spend a great deal of time looking at the side profile of a vehicle.It looks much better than the old model and from the number that I am seeing on the road people seem to like it. People in general that know nothing about cars see the Escape as new. That is really all that matters. it is doing well despite your complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 What you don't understand is that the 2K8 Escape is a rolling optical illusion. Somehow, it offers the eye what the mind expects to see, and it does it to more people than most. It does look different — it should, with all the contour changes — but it looks just the same, especially when approaching from behind. From the front, the strong grill removes all doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 What you don't understand is that the 2K8 Escape is a rolling optical illusion. Somehow, it offers the eye what the mind expects to see, and it does it to more people than most. It does look different — it should, with all the contour changes — but it looks just the same, especially when approaching from behind. From the front, the strong grill removes all doubt. But it is different enough for most people. Even the different taillights do a good job of convincing people that it is new. I really like the thing. I drove one, and aside from the sound of the engine, it was very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) Oh boy, now we're calling people retarded. What a grown up mode of criticism. The fact is that 08 Escape looks much more square than the 01. It is quite easy to see. When I look at it I don't even see the 01 because like most people, I don't spend a great deal of time looking at the side profile of a vehicle.It looks much better than the old model and from the number that I am seeing on the road people seem to like it. People in general that know nothing about cars see the Escape as new. That is really all that matters. it is doing well despite your complaints. Believe me I was debating whether to post the insult or not, but I said hell with it. Now you try to back track away from the original meaning that they look very similar and it is disgusting that this is the best Ford could do after 7 years on the market. And I fail to see how falling to third place in the segment, fleet dumping and bargain bin pricing is considered "doing well" especially after Ford dominated the segment with the previous Escape....................So losing market share, losing sales, having to sell thousands below your compeition and throwing the new 08 escape into fleets is a success? ALL WHILE THE SEGMENT IS GROWINRAPIDLY! Why did Ford hand another segment over to the Japanese on a silver plate? With your inability to see what Ford does wrong it is almost like you want Ford to fail. This shit is what will cause Ford to slide further into oblivion, the only other segment Ford has left that they haven't handed over on a silver plate to Toyota is the Full size truck market...................lets hope that doesn't happen but even if ti does I am sure you would find no problem saying how great their decision was. Edited January 6, 2008 by DCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Believe me I was debating whether to post the insult or not, but I said hell with it. Now you try to back track away from the original meaning that they look very similar and it is disgusting that this is the best Ford could do after 7 years on the market. And I fail to see how falling to third place in the segment, fleet dumping and bargain bin pricing is considered "doing well" especially after Ford dominated the segment with the previous Escape....................So losing market share, losing sales, having to sell thousands below your compeition and throwing the new 08 escape into fleets is a success? Why did Ford hand another segment over to the Japanese on a silver plate? With your inability to see what Ford does wrong it is almost like you want Ford to fail. This shit is what will cause Ford to slide further into oblivion, he only other segment Ford has left that they haven't handed over on a silver plate to Toyota is the Full size truck market...................lets hope that doesn't happen but even if ti does I am sure you would find no problem saying how great their decision was. I don't make decisions at Ford. What I think doesn't matter. What I do think, is that this refresh is certainly better than none. After driving the new Escape I can see that it isn't perfect but is still a very nice vehicle for its price. There's nothing wrong with Ford offering an affordable small SUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) . Edited January 6, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 And I fail to see how falling to third place in the segment, fleet dumping and bargain bin pricing is considered "doing well"... Especially when Ford is blasted by people here for doing that with the Panthers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 There's nothing wrong with Ford offering an affordable small SUV. Well, there is, when it finishes 7th out of 9 places in a recent comparo. It was beat by the new Vue (6), The Grand Vitara (5), the Outlander (4), the Rogue (3), the CR-V (2), and the RAV-4 (1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) Well, there is, when it finishes 7th out of 9 places in a recent comparo. It was beat by the new Vue (6), The Grand Vitara (5), the Outlander (4), the Rogue (3), the CR-V (2), and the RAV-4 (1). The Edge finished last in every comparo. Edited January 6, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 DCK's point is incontrovertible: Escape used to be #1, is now #3. IMHO, the 2K5 re-fresh was the start of the problem. Anyway, the 2K8 Escape is a step in the right direction, and the up-grades planned, like a 6-speed automatic, will keep it competitive. It's the next Escape that's really important, to get back that market share. And judging by the new Explorer, it should be really interesting to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) DCK's point is incontrovertible: Escape used to be #1, is now #3. IMHO, the 2K5 re-fresh was the start of the problem. Anyway, the 2K8 Escape is a step in the right direction, and the up-grades planned, like a 6-speed automatic, will keep it competitive. It's the next Escape that's really important, to get back that market share. And judging by the new Explorer, it should be really interesting to see. It's not that cut and dry. Ford used to have 1 offering for people looking for something like the Escape. They now have the Edge competing with the top model Escapes. That is bound to stifle some of its growth. Ford has a diverse crossover portfolio that is up 67% for the year. The Escape is only one piece of the puzzle. It is a lower priced vehicle for people on a budget. Edited January 6, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 It's not that cut and dry. Ford used to have 1 offering for people looking for something like the Escape. They now have the Edge competing with the top model Escapes. That is bound to stifle some of its growth. Ford has a diverse crossover portfolio that is up 67% for the year. The Escape is only one piece of the puzzle. It is a lower priced vehicle for people on a budget. No, they let the Escape go stale...take the rear seat for example: Back when this SUV was introduced, it's rear seat was among the most comfortable for actual human adults. Since then, the Honda, Saturn, and Toyota have surpassed it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 No, they let the Escape go stale...take the rear seat for example: They kept the Escape lower priced and rugged while introducing the edge to take on other CUVs like the Rav. It's not stale. i know in this area they can barely keep them on the lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I don't make decisions at Ford. What I think doesn't matter. What I do think, is that this refresh is certainly better than none. After driving the new Escape I can see that it isn't perfect but is still a very nice vehicle for its price. There's nothing wrong with Ford offering an affordable small SUV. Ford isn't KIA. At least they shouldn't be, Hell Kia doesn't even want to be KIA. And I doubt ford's current management has any desire to be Kia. They should want to produce such demand for their vehicles that they can easily sell them at thousands more. Honda and Toyota do that. Ford should strive for that, not strive to be the bargain bin fleet dumped embarrassment they put out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I haven't driven the Escape, but I'll believe that it drives nicely enough. My concern with powertrain is more about refinement (never a 3.0L Duratec strong point - except for the Jag 3.0 and the Mazda6's 3.0 isn't awful) and fuel economy: Toyota Rav4 FWD 3.5L 269hp - 19mpg city & 27mpg highway Ford Escape FWD 3.0L 200hp - 18mpg city & 24mpg highway Seriously? 2008 Ford Escape Limited 2001 Ford Escape XLS Imagine if the color schemes were closer (admittedly it was hard to find similar promo shots at edmunds.com for the 2008 & 2001 models.) Is the 2008 different than the 2001? Undoubtedly. Do they look the same? Definitely. I think the Escape needs a new "look" all around. Keep the trucky thing going but start with a clean sheet...I mean really, it's been seven years! Scott The roofline is about all I see, maybe the rear as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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