what would you do to GOD?

[davdog]

Forced?, so you have been made to go to church?...by who? How have you been forced?

 

“Whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.”--Revelation 22:17

 

No, but I've been forced to abide by "blue" laws that didn't allow me to purchase certain items on Sunday. I've been force to sit through some silly prayer at public events. I've been forced to have to skip part of the pledge of allegiance, the part that was added after the fact. I've been forced to listen to idiotic presidents tell me that they're guided by god. I could go on and on with this one.

 

"Live your life and I'll live mine" My revelation 1:1

[davdog]

Exactly which religous "folk" are you talking about? I guess religion was invented 2008 years ago huh? Why dont you be more specific next time so we see your real bias.

 

Religious folk who have been trying to impose "their" ways on the rest of us since the beginning of time. I don't believe in thor either so I guess I have to go back further then 2008 years. No bias here, I think every organized religion is based on fiction.

[Padre7]

No, but I've been forced to abide by "blue" laws that didn't allow me to purchase certain items on Sunday. I've been force to sit through some silly prayer at public events. I've been forced to have to skip part of the pledge of allegiance, the part that was added after the fact. I've been forced to listen to idiotic presidents tell me that they're guided by god. I could go on and on with this one.

 

"Live your life and I'll live mine" My revelation 1:1

OH that is horrible. It must have caused unbelievable pain to sit thru a prayer. A silly one at that. I have to listen to idiotic things all the time. for instance your post. I still want to know which religous "folk" your talking about.

[Trimdingman]

Forced?, so you have been made to go to church?...by who? How have you been forced?

 

“Whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.”--Revelation 22:17

 

 

Thankfully, to-day we have freedom from religion. The poor wretches in the past didn't, and suffered much persecution. The Italian scientist Galileo Galilei was imprisoned for life by the Catholic Church for saying that the earth revolves around the sun. If the church had that kind of power to-day we would still see people imprisoned and tortured for not believing. In Muslim countries the church does have that much power and they have women stoned to death for adultry, among other atrocities. If you are asked to commit suicide in the name of God, and you refuse, your family will be murdered. That is what happens when religion gets too much power. When Christianity had that kind of power, they were considered much more ruthless than the Muslims. Pope Constantine did not get rid of the murdering in the Colosseum. There were still people getting killed by lions and such, but they were not Christians any more. They were from other religions.

 

If the priests could force you to go to church, they would. If they were given the power to punish you for disobeying the religion, they would punish you. It has been that way from the beginning, from the Mayans and the Incas tearing out peoples' hearts while they are still alive, to the Muslims stoning people to death, to the Christians burning people alive. It is sick and the people who believe in it are sick, and I don't want any part of it.

[Padre7]

Religious folk who have been trying to impose "their" ways on the rest of us since the beginning of time. I don't believe in thor either so I guess I have to go back further then 2008 years. No bias here, I think every organized religion is based on fiction.

 

Who exactly is us? Athiests? Historicaly speaking most people and cultres have been religious. Be they Pagans as you pointed or Muslims,Jews,&Christians. It is an innate part of man to seek God.

[davdog]

OH that is horrible. It must have caused unbelievable pain to sit thru a prayer. A silly one at that. I have to listen to idiotic things all the time. for instance your post. I still want to know which religous "folk" your talking about.

 

Take your pick on the religious folk, all of todays organized religions are equally silly. You don't have to read my post, but I have to sit through a silly prayer at a public event, or I have to show up late and take a seat in the back. Now if they would let me chant during their prayer then I would be OK with it, but dog gone it they frown on my chanting at public events.

[davdog]

Who exactly is us? Athiests? Historicaly speaking most people and cultres have been religious. Be they Pagans as you pointed or Muslims,Jews,&Christians. It is an innate part of man to seek God.

 

No, it is an innate part of man to have the inablility to live his life believing it ends with his death. Man has become so egotistical that he can't believe something as great as he could possibly just rot in the earth after he expires. The strong folks are the ones who don't need this made up crutch to get through a good decent life.

[Padre7]

Thankfully, to-day we have freedom from religion. The poor wretches in the past didn't, and suffered much persecution. The Italian scientist Galileo Galilei was imprisoned for life by the Catholic Church for saying that the earth revolves around the sun. If the church had that kind of power to-day we would still see people imprisoned and tortured for not believing. In Muslim countries the church does have that much power and they have women stoned to death for adultry, among other atrocities. If you are asked to commit suicide in the name of God, and you refuse, your family will be murdered. That is what happens when religion gets too much power. When Christianity had that kind of power, they were considered much more ruthless than the Muslims. Pope Constantine did not get rid of the murdering in the Colosseum. There were still people getting killed by lions and such, but they were not Christians any more. They were from other religions.

 

If the priests could force you to go to church, they would. If they were given the power to punish you for disobeying the religion, they would punish you. It has been that way from the beginning, from the Mayans and the Incas tearing out peoples' hearts while they are still alive, to the Muslims stoning people to death, to the Christians burning people alive. It is sick and the people who believe in it are sick, and I don't want any part of it.

 

Boy, where to begin? I will save the geocentric debate for another time. First off There was no Pope Constatine. Their was a Pope St. Militiades during the reign of Emperor Constantine. Tell me when were Christians "more ruthless than Muslims"? And secular/athiests have never done anything wrong? Stalins killing of 20 million Ukranians by starvation was just a compassinate act of euthenasia too, Huh? The numbers killed by athiests far exceed those Killed for religous reasons.

[Padre7]

Take your pick on the religious folk, all of todays organized religions are equally silly. You don't have to read my post, but I have to sit through a silly prayer at a public event, or I have to show up late and take a seat in the back. Now if they would let me chant during their prayer then I would be OK with it, but dog gone it they frown on my chanting at public events.

So is it safe to say unorganized religions are not silly? and You dont have to go to the public event. Its ok with me if you chant, as long is its Gregorian :shades:

[Trimdingman]

Boy, where to begin? I will save the geocentric debate for another time. First off There was no Pope Constatine. Their was a Pope St. Militiades during the reign of Emperor Constantine. Tell me when were Christians "more ruthless than Muslims"? And secular/athiests have never done anything wrong? Stalins killing of 20 million Ukranians by starvation was just a compassinate act of euthenasia too, Huh? The numbers killed by athiests far exceed those Killed for religous reasons.

 

Pope Constantine reigned from 708 to 715. Stalin was a Communist. If you have been following my posts on other threads, I have been saying all along that totalitarian government, such as Communism is the same thing as religion. Everybody has done wrong, but we don't do it in the name of non-religion or from a position of authority. Christianity to-day is under control. Islam, in some places is not. When Christianity had authority, they had people tortured, imprisoned and murdered for the "crime" of doubting Christianity. During the Crusades, the Muslims gave quarter to surrendering Christians. Christians did not. They massacred women and children. The only thing that stops them to-day is the fact they are not in authority. If they were the government, there would be little difference between them and the Muslims in the Middle East. Christianity started in the same place. The Bible still says that you should kill witches. If they were allowed, every Christian church would have a stake, and there would be lots of witch burnings as happened in Salem, Massachussetts.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Padre7]

Stalin was a Communist. If you have been following my posts on other threads, I have been saying all along that totalitarian government, such as Communism is the same thing as religion. Everybody has done wrong, but we don't do it in the name of non-religion or from a position of authority. Christianity to-day is under control. Islam, in some places is not. When Christianity had authority, they had people tortured, imprisoned and murdered for the "crime" of doubting Christianity. During the Crusades, the Muslims gave quarter to surrendering Christians. Christians did not. They massacred women and children. The only thing that stops them to-day is the fact they are not in authority. If they were the government, there would be little difference between them and the Muslims in the Middle East. Christianity started in the same place. The Bible still says that you should kill witches. If they were allowed, every Christian church would have a stake, and there would be lots of witch burnings as happened in Salem, Massachussetts.

One of the main tennents of Communism is, there is No God(athiesm)! Just because they substitute the Party(man) for God does not take the fact away that they are Athiests. I have already proven you wrong in the history dept,(Pope Constantine)are you sure you want to go on with this Crusades thing? The facts are Islam was on a pilliaging spree of their own killing and conquering. they messed up by destroying Churches in the Holy land and general murder carnage etc. The Holy land was controlled by Byzantines ( eastern roman empire). The Empereor Asked Pope UrbanII for help. What ensued was the Crusades not to be confused with non legitmatecrusades such as the childrens crusade Etc. I can and will go on but please educate yourself before you open your mouth. The Crusades were a justafide war against an unprovoked aggressor! Hey ask spain how often the Muslim gave them safe quarter during their 800 yr war against the unprovoked aggressor.

[Trimdingman]

One of the main tennents of Communism is, there is No God(athiesm)! Just because they substitute the Party(man) for God does not take the fact away that they are Athiests. I have already proven you wrong in the history dept,(Pope Constantine)are you sure you want to go on with this Crusades thing? The facts are Islam was on a pilliaging spree of their own killing and conquering. they messed up by destroying Churches in the Holy land and general murder carnage etc. The Holy land was controlled by Byzantines ( eastern roman empire). The Empereor Asked Pope UrbanII for help. What ensued was the Crusades not to be confused with non legitmatecrusades such as the childrens crusade Etc. I can and will go on but please educate yourself before you open your mouth. The Crusades were a justafide war against an unprovoked aggressor! Hey ask spain how often the Muslim gave them safe quarter during their 800 yr war against the unprovoked aggressor.

 

 

Pope Constantine reigned from 708 to 715. Communist countries ban religion because they are the religion. Both Muslims and Christians were killers. Christians were just slightly more bloodthirsty. When the Christian Crusaders took Jerusalem in 1099, there was much slaughter. When Saladin re-took Jerusalem, he granted the Christians amnesty. I am on the side of the Christian people but I don't believe in the religion. Religion is born of one man's desire to control another. I believe in individual freedom. Religion perverts the mind. People who are under the influence of religion lose their power to reason and come under the control of a priest or minister. They are not permitted to know anything outside the loop of his "teachings", so they must always be inferior to him. Progress is stymied under a religious regime; witness the Middle East.

 

Done in the name of Christianity:

 

>>>382 Emperor Theodosius passed laws making heresy punishable by death.

 

>>>1205 Pope Innocent III forbade any legal defense for people charged with heresy.

 

>>>1224 In his Constitution of 1224, Frederick III declared that heretics convicted by an eccliastical order should suffer death by fire.

 

>>>1230 Pope Gregory IX began the Medieval Inquisition by setting up the first permanent tribunal to deal with heresy.

 

>>>1239 On May 29th 1239, at Montwimer in Champagne, Robert de Bougre one time burned about one hundred eighty people whose trial began and ended in one week.

 

>>>Count Raylmund VII of Toulouse had eighty confessed heretics burned in his presence without giving them a chance to recant.

 

>>>1252 Torture to elicit confessions was first authorized by Pope Innocent IV on May 15th, 1252 which was confirmed by Pope Alexander IV on Nov. 30th, 1259, and by Pope Clement IV on Nov. 3rd, 1265.

 

>>>1260 Pope Alexander IV and Pope Urban IV authorized "examinations" in the torture chamber.

 

>>>1391 In Barcelona hundreds of thousands of Jews were massacred or forced into Baptism.

 

>>>1542 Pope Paul III established the Roman Inquisition.

 

>>>1814 The Spanish Inquisition was re-introduced by Ferdinand VII and approved by Pope Pius VII.

 

Christians didn't stop these acts of their own accord. They were forced to stop by government. If we were to ever again slip into anarchy, these types would come back and try to seize control again. Witness what has happened in the Middle East.

 

What do people find so attractive about religion? It is evil and it robs you of your intellect.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Trimdingman

[ktpworker69]

not nearly as many as Saudi Arabia and Iran. And remember, those Iraqi terrorists are being trained and armed by Iran. THAT is who should have been attacked.

aaaah...did you just admit that iraq harbors terrorists???

[Pumpmaster]

Boy, where to begin? I will save the geocentric debate for another time. First off There was no Pope Constatine. Their was a Pope St. Militiades during the reign of Emperor Constantine. Tell me when were Christians "more ruthless than Muslims"? And secular/athiests have never done anything wrong? Stalins killing of 20 million Ukranians by starvation was just a compassinate act of euthenasia too, Huh? The numbers killed by athiests far exceed those Killed for religous reasons.

 

Where to begin, indeed! "The numbers killed by atheists far exceed those killed for religious reasons." ?? You're joking, right?

 

Let's look at people involved in current events: 1) people who flew planes into buildings on 9/11, killing about 3000 people: devout Muslims, not atheists.

2) persons most responsible for about 1 million people dead so far in Afghanistan and Iraq (includes Afghanis, Iraqis and Americans): George Bush, Tony Blair, etc. All devout christians.

3) people involved in ongoing bloodbath in Palestine/Israel/West Bank/Gaza, etc.: devout Jews and Muslims, not atheists.

4) most prosperous, peaceful, stable countries on earth: Norway, Sweden, Finland, New Zealand. These countries are mostly humanist/agnostic/atheist/secular.

 

Here's just one website with some stats on religious populations: http://atheistempire.com/reference/stats/

[Trimdingman]

The United States and Israel are Democracies. Religion does not rule them, unlike Iraq. From our side, the war is not driven by religion. It is being fought to free people from the evils of religious control and to protect our own country.

 

What is the difference between a religious leader with dictatorial power which he achieves by having people believe that he is in communication with God; and a regular dictator who gains power either through his own charisma, or by terrorizing his subjects? Religious dictators also have never been shy to use terror in order to keep their subjects in line. In the free world, Christian leaders can only brainwash you and instill fear of the burning fires of Hell in the afterlife. If they were the government, they would give you the real fires if you dared to step out of line as they did back when they were the government. That is the way it is with Middle Eastern Muslim countries to-day. Religion is the government there. Christian totalitarianism would be far worse.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Ford pilot]

Take your pick on the religious folk, all of todays organized religions are equally silly. You don't have to read my post, but I have to sit through a silly prayer at a public event, or I have to show up late and take a seat in the back. Now if they would let me chant during their prayer then I would be OK with it, but dog gone it they frown on my chanting at public events.

 

 

You should do what our fore-fathers did. Organize the people that think like you and go start a new country. Or organize and try to take over this country. The reason you have to sit through these things is because this country was founded on Christianity.

 

Granted, this country is pulling away from Christianity. This is also interesting. We're kicking God out of schools and governments at all levels.

 

Our society is supposedly advancing as we pull father away from our roots. If you get your wish, we will not acknowledge God in anything we do. I'm sure this is coincidence, but as we do all of theses things our society is going down the toilet. Suicides, violent crimes, teen pregnancy, and broken families. See how much happier we become as we turn our back on God?

[Ford pilot]

All of these extreme examples of "religious" people doing horrible things do not represent true Christians. If you read the Bible, nothing commands us to molest kids, steal money, have affairs, etc. These people use their religion the wrong way. They do not represent true Christians. True Christians make a very positive addition to society. If you deny this, you don't know any.

 

It has been an interesting debate.

 

To my UAW brothers and sisters in Christ, keep fighting the Good Fight. Let's pray for each other.

 

To my UAW brothers and sisters not yet in Christ, I'm truly praying for you as well.

 

 

 

With God, all things are possible.

 

See Ya

[Trimdingman]

You should do what our fore-fathers did. Organize the people that think like you and go start a new country. Or organize and try to take over this country. The reason you have to sit through these things is because this country was founded on Christianity.

 

Granted, this country is pulling away from Christianity. This is also interesting. We're kicking God out of schools and governments at all levels.

 

Our society is supposedly advancing as we pull father away from our roots. If you get your wish, we will not acknowledge God in anything we do. I'm sure this is coincidence, but as we do all of theses things our society is going down the toilet. Suicides, violent crimes, teen pregnancy, and broken families. See how much happier we become as we turn our back on God?

 

 

This country was built on individual freedom. The Constitution is so worded that religion cannot gain a foothold. Religions have succeeded in brainwashing millions of people, but because the authors of the Constitution saw the dangers of religion, it has never been able to gain a position of legal authority. In Salem Massachussetts in the 1600s, there was no outside authority, so religion took over and they started their practices of torture and murder. My 10th great grandfather, Mayflower passenger John Billington bucked the religious authority and was hanged in 1630 on circumstantial evidence to shut him up.

[Trimdingman]

All of these extreme examples of "religious" people doing horrible things do not represent true Christians. If you read the Bible, nothing commands us to molest kids, steal money, have affairs, etc. These people use their religion the wrong way. They do not represent true Christians. True Christians make a very positive addition to society. If you deny this, you don't know any.

 

It has been an interesting debate.

 

To my UAW brothers and sisters in Christ, keep fighting the Good Fight. Let's pray for each other.

 

To my UAW brothers and sisters not yet in Christ, I'm truly praying for you as well.

With God, all things are possible.

 

See Ya

 

Religion in this country is not as harmful as it is in countries where it has authority. Religious people here just believe in a lot of things that are not true and they have an incorrect view of reality and they are easily manipulated and controlled. They don't have to worry about being tortured or burned at the stake as they would under a different Constitution. These things are just below the surface and fighting to get out but as it is, they can only have you imagine these tortures in the afterlife. They are no longer allowed to directly inflict them.

 

The Bible is just a tool of the Christian religion. The Bible does not tell you to molest kids, but if you have someone under your hypnotic spell, you can get them to do whatever you want. It was the Popes who authorized many of the torturings and murders. They were the leaders of the Catholic religion. That is where the present day Catholic Church came from. I am sure that these practices would still be done to-day if it were not for laws forbidding them. I am sorry that I was not able to save you. I hope that you will allow your children to make up their own minds.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Padre7]

The Bible is just a tool of the Christian religion. The Bible does not tell you to molest kids, but if you have someone under your hypnotic spell, you can get them to do whatever you want. It was the Popes who committed these torturings and murders. They were the leaders of the Catholic religion. That is where the present day Catholic Church came from. I am sure that these practices would still be done to-day if it were not for laws forbidding them. I am sorry that I was not able to save you. I hope that you will allow your children to make up their own minds. This curse must end.

I fully agree that most of the things you brought up actullay happend. GASP! So what, it still pails in comparrison to what was done under pagan, athiest,animist, etc cultures. IF you would look up the actual events and not just post one liners you would know The Inqusitions be it spanish,german,Roman. were state run. it was a tribunal for what we would call traitors. Can you imagine living in Spain during its war with Islam? I will tell you Muslims did pretend to be christians to gain access to power. Would you allow your enemies to run around freely? Religous leaders were only the judges they did not hand out punishment that was reserved for the State (King/Queen). The only exception being the Roman Inquisition. It was different because the Pope was the Soverign ruler of the Papal Lands. Besides IT IS NOT RELIGION it is mans desire to control his fellow man that caused these abuses. This is a direct result of mans fall from Grace in the Garden of Eden. I apologize if you meant Pope Constantine from the 8th cent. By your remarks about lions and collisieums I assumed you were refering to the 4th cent emperor who some anti catholics like calling pope. the collisiuem was abandend and in general disrepair by the 8th cent. Man will kill, maim and destroy be it in Gods name or Stalins, Only Christ can free us of this, and this wont happen until he returns

[Trimdingman]

I fully agree that most of the things you brought up actullay happend. GASP! So what, it still pails in comparrison to what was done under pagan, athiest,animist, etc cultures. IF you would look up the actual events and not just post one liners you would know The Inqusitions be it spanish,german,Roman. were state run. it was a tribunal for what we would call traitors. Can you imagine living in Spain during its war with Islam? I will tell you Muslims did pretend to be christians to gain access to power. Would you allow your enemies to run around freely? Religous leaders were only the judges they did not hand out punishment that was reserved for the State (King/Queen). The only exception being the Roman Inquisition. It was different because the Pope was the Soverign ruler of the Papal Lands. Besides IT IS NOT RELIGION it is mans desire to control his fellow man that caused these abuses. This is a direct result of mans fall from Grace in the Garden of Eden. I apologize if you meant Pope Constantine from the 8th cent. By your remarks about lions and collisieums I assumed you were refering to the 4th cent emperor who some anti catholics like calling pope. the collisiuem was abandend and in general disrepair by the 8th cent. Man will kill, maim and destroy be it in Gods name or Stalins, Only Christ can free us of this, and this wont happen until he returns

 

 

That is what religion is. It is man's desire to control his fellow man. Religion, when it is government, like it is in Muslim countries, is just another form of Totalitarian dictatorship. In America, it can't form the government because the Constitution protects Americans, but it is rampant and has warped the minds of countless millions of people. Whenever Christianity has gained legal authority, non-believers were persecuted. It is just like Naziism under Hitler. That was not that long ago. Look what happened to the Jews because they didn't believe. Hitler believed in ancient cults which proclaimed Arian supremacy. It was all religion.

[Pumpmaster]

All of these extreme examples of "religious" people doing horrible things do not represent true Christians. If you read the Bible, nothing commands us to molest kids, steal money, have affairs, etc. These people use their religion the wrong way. They do not represent true Christians. True Christians make a very positive addition to society. If you deny this, you don't know any.

 

It has been an interesting debate.

 

To my UAW brothers and sisters in Christ, keep fighting the Good Fight. Let's pray for each other.

 

To my UAW brothers and sisters not yet in Christ, I'm truly praying for you as well.

With God, all things are possible.

 

See Ya

 

You prove people like me right: you imply that murderers like Paul Hill, James Kopp, Eric Rudolph, George Bush, etc aren't "true" christians---but YOU are. Same false argument put forth

by Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, etc.

 

My fear for my kids' generation and beyond is, if we don't evolve out of these ancient superstitions, our species won't survive.

[Trimdingman]

It is one thing for an individual to commit murder. Also, killing in a just war is not murder. It is another thing if you can be tortured and killed by your own government just because you do not believe in a religion. That is what has happened to people every time Christianity, or any other religion has ever had power. Religion is the same as any authoritarian system if they gain power.

 

In a free country, people practice religion of their own free will. Actually, they are coerced and hypnotized, but it is not illegal to be a non-believer. It doesn't matter what a religion gets you to believe as long as it is so fanciful that it could not possibly be true. That way, if someone tries to draw you out of that religion by using logic and truth on you, it won't work because you have convinced yourself that some fairy tale is true. There will be no common ground that anyone can use to get you to see the light.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Padre7]

That is what religion is. It is man's desire to control his fellow man. Religion, when it is government, like it is in Muslim countries, is just another form of Totalitarian dictatorship. In America, it can't form the government because the Constitution protects Americans, but it is rampant and has warped the minds of countless millions of people. Whenever Christianity has gained legal authority, non-believers were persecuted. It is just like Naziism under Hitler. That was not that long ago. Look what happened to the Jews because they didn't believe. Hitler believed in ancient cults which proclaimed Arian supremacy. It was all religion.

Do you honestly believe if we lived in world free of religion no one would harm another soul, all people would be happy and there would be no poor? Man will try to control his fellow man no matter what because our nature was wounded in the fall. Wake up! You seem Intellegent enough to research history. Before Christ/Church the world was screwed up. Pagan rome thought it was ok to kill infants if they looked less than perfect so did the greeks. Look at all the instances of human sacrafice etc in other religions. Just because some horrific things have happend in the name of Christ/christianity does not make it the norm. Our understanding of human morality in the west grew out of The Catholic Churchs teachings. Hospitals, University, modern sciences, arts, heck even the ideas organized labor came from Catholic teachings. the achievments of christianity far exceed its abuses. In Christianity all people have dignity. PLease dont pull up two or three examples of bad apples because I would have literaly millions of examples to go against you. How many people are cared for in catholic hospitals orphanges free of charge? how many people does catholic charities help every year with clothing, food, housing? I can only speak for Catholicism But other Christians traditions do the same thing. tell I have never heard of an Athiest/agnostic/humanist/secular orphanage or hospital or food bank unless its run by the Govt

[Pumpmaster]

Do you honestly believe if we lived in world free of religion no one would harm another soul, all people would be happy and there would be no poor? Man will try to control his fellow man no matter what because our nature was wounded in the fall. Wake up! You seem Intellegent enough to research history. Before Christ/Church the world was screwed up. Pagan rome thought it was ok to kill infants if they looked less than perfect so did the greeks. Look at all the instances of human sacrafice etc in other religions. Just because some horrific things have happend in the name of Christ/christianity does not make it the norm. Our understanding of human morality in the west grew out of The Catholic Churchs teachings. Hospitals, University, modern sciences, arts, heck even the ideas organized labor came from Catholic teachings. the achievments of christianity far exceed its abuses. In Christianity all people have dignity. PLease dont pull up two or three examples of bad apples because I would have literaly millions of examples to go against you. How many people are cared for in catholic hospitals orphanges free of charge? how many people does catholic charities help every year with clothing, food, housing? I can only speak for Catholicism But other Christians traditions do the same thing. tell I have never heard of an Athiest/agnostic/humanist/secular orphanage or hospital or food bank unless its run by the Govt

 

Slow down, and quit stacking. One point at a time.

 

"I have never heard of an atheist/agnostic/humanist/secular orphanage or hospital or food bank..." You don't get out much, do ya?

 

Here's "SHARE": http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?s...&page=SHARE

 

We donated a ton of money and relief items to the victims of the '04 tsunami and the victims of Katrina.