what would you do to GOD?

[paris]

Criticizing Christianity got a lot of people burned at the stake. What is wrong with questioning the highly questionable? To do it in public to-day would not get you burned at the stake, but it would put a damper on any future career in politics, and could nullify any chance of promotion where you work. You have heard about how Christians were persecuted in the first few centuries. Now the tables are turned. The anonymity of the internet makes it a great medium for speaking the truth without fear of persecution. I am not afraid of publicly expressing my beliefs, and often do. That is because I am not in a position where it affects my livelyhood. It is religious fanatics who are warped, and more prone to violent or deviant behavior. That is why the Constitution protects us from religion. Religion cannot form the government. In the past, when Christianity was the government, non-believers were tortured and murdered. In the Middle East to-day you have a combination of religion and dictatorship. They are both the same. Non-believers are tortured and murdered. That is religion. People are brainwashed into it from the time they are babies. There should be a law against poisoning childrens' minds.

Trimdingman,

Excellent points! I am in total agreement with what you are saying. Questioning is fine, and normal. There are those however, who feel the opposite. I get the impression that our friend pump is way beyond the "question it" point and is now fanatic! To him, there is something wrong with you if you have a religion! At least in his writings on the internet forums. Never in person.

[Trimdingman]

Trimdingman,

Excellent points! I am in total agreement with what you are saying. Questioning is fine, and normal. There are those however, who feel the opposite. I get the impression that our friend pump is way beyond the "question it" point and is now fanatic! To him, there is something wrong with you if you have a religion! At least in his writings on the internet forums. Never in person.

 

I also believe that religious people aren't "right". I sometimes go to church with my wife. I would never make my true feelings known there. Belief in religion is illogical. Therefore people who believe in religion aren't right. They are a bit off. Their whole outlook is slightly out of kilter. Their take on reality is mistaken. They are being sold a bill of goods and they are buying it. The same can be said of Liberals. Pump is a Liberal. He is religious, just in a different way.

[paris]

I also believe that religious people aren't "right". I sometimes go to church with my wife. I would never make my true feelings known there. Belief in religion is illogical. Therefore people who believe in religion aren't right. They are a bit off. Their whole outlook is slightly out of kilter. Their take on reality is mistaken. They are being sold a bill of goods and they are buying it. The same can be said of Liberals. Pump is a Liberal. He is religious, just in a different way.

I respect your belief. However, if what you say is true, there are a lot of people in this world who are "out of kilter".

Too many people much smarter than I have believed that there is a God who created everything. I find myself having a difficult time questioning their judgement. I tend to respect those b4 me who were crowned King, Emporer, President, ECT., and all shared the same belief. Kinda makes me feel a little on the "outside" by questioning them. You know what Im saying?

[Pumpmaster]

I also believe that religious people aren't "right". I sometimes go to church with my wife. I would never make my true feelings known there. Belief in religion is illogical. Therefore people who believe in religion aren't right. They are a bit off. Their whole outlook is slightly out of kilter. Their take on reality is mistaken. They are being sold a bill of goods and they are buying it. The same can be said of Liberals. Pump is a Liberal. He is religious, just in a different way.

 

What's a "liberal?"

[Pumpmaster]

Trimdingman,

Excellent points! I am in total agreement with what you are saying. Questioning is fine, and normal. There are those however, who feel the opposite. I get the impression that our friend pump is way beyond the "question it" point and is now fanatic! To him, there is something wrong with you if you have a religion! At least in his writings on the internet forums. Never in person.

 

Can we agree to "cease & desist" with the ad hominem attacks?

 

GBI started this thread, titled "what would you do to GOD?"

 

So, what is "GOD?"

[Trimdingman]

I respect your belief. However, if what you say is true, there are a lot of people in this world who are "out of kilter".

Too many people much smarter than I have believed that there is a God who created everything. I find myself having a difficult time questioning their judgement. I tend to respect those b4 me who were crowned King, Emporer, President, ECT., and all shared the same belief. Kinda makes me feel a little on the "outside" by questioning them. You know what Im saying?

 

People are programmed to believe in a religion from a very young age. Many are highly intelligent. They still have illogical beliefs. It is like the guy who goes up on the stage to get hypnotized. He is given the suggestion to crow like a rooster when a bell rings. He does it, even though he was no idea why. People have a fear of going to Hell if they renounce their religion, so they keep faith just to be on the safe side. Many suspect that the whole thing is a hoax, but they are afraid to take the chance that it isn't. It has all of the ear marks of the classic con job. That is what I am saying it is.

[Trimdingman]

Can we agree to "cease & desist" with the ad hominem attacks?

 

GBI started this thread, titled "what would you do to GOD?"

 

So, what is "GOD?"

 

You are the one who started in on me. God is a hoax. A Liberal is someone who believes in big government and high taxes, moving towards Communism. Since the whole concept is illogical, he has been brainwashed just like a Christian believer.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Trimdingman

[paris]

Can we agree to "cease & desist" with the ad hominem attacks?

 

GBI started this thread, titled "what would you do to GOD?"

 

So, what is "GOD?"

Wow! Ad hominem huh? You are the one who frequently responds to posts which other people make, with something derogatory or cynical. Remember, your character is a representation of all of the qualities that make you who you are. If you think that people are attacking your character without addressing the issue you present, you are mistaken. I think your character IS a representation of the issues you present and is seriously lacking! It just looks like your character is being attacked because of some of the outragious posts you make and people try to respond to you the only way they know how.

By the way, I was in the Indianapolis facility long ago. I have no plans to return. I already know your name! The chances of us having a face to face discussion are basically zero. Please don't send me emails. Any discussions we will have will be done via this forum.

Your "cease and desist with ad hominem" proposal is funny. Grow up!

Edited February 6, 2008 by paris

[Pumpmaster]

Wow! Ad hominem huh? You are the one who frequently responds to posts which other people make, with something derogatory or cynical. Remember, your character is a representation of all of the qualities that make you who you are. If you think that people are attacking your character without addressing the issue you present, you are mistaken. I think your character IS a representation of the issues you present and is seriously lacking! It just looks like your character is being attacked because of some of the outragious posts you make and people try to respond to you the only way they know how.

By the way, I was in the Indianapolis facility long ago. I have no plans to return. I already know your name! The chances of us having a face to face discussion are basically zero. Please don't send me emails. Any discussions we will have will be done via this forum.

Your "cease and desist with ad hominem" proposal is funny. Grow up!

 

OK, we'll do it your way.

 

You're a chickenshit coward!

[Pumpmaster]

For anyone who happens to be reading this, I PM'd this "paris" person. I politely invited this person to talk w/ me in the plant anytime I wasn't on a job. I signed my name & classification.

 

You can read "paris'" response, and judge for yourself.

 

Having said that, let's get back to the title of this thread, "what would you do to GOD?"

 

"God was my copilot; but our plane crashed in the Andes, and I had to eat him to survive."

[paris]

For anyone who happens to be reading this, I PM'd this "paris" person. I politely invited this person to talk w/ me in the plant anytime I wasn't on a job. I signed my name & classification.

 

You can read "paris'" response, and judge for yourself.

 

Having said that, let's get back to the title of this thread, "what would you do to GOD?"

 

"God was my copilot; but our plane crashed in the Andes, and I had to eat him to survive."

Pumpmaster,

Answer this question for me please. Was there ever a time in your life when you had a belief in a God? This is not meant to be a trick question in any way.

[mettech]

Can we agree to "cease & desist" with the ad hominem attacks?

 

GBI started this thread, titled "what would you do to GOD?"

 

So, what is "GOD?"

 

Not sure God would be allow to stay here since he would be classified as an Illegal Alien and would have to be deported out of the country. :shades:

[Trimdingman]

Paris, do you believe in Hell? If so, then you believe that burning a person at the stake would be just a small taste of what he will get after he dies if he is a non-believer. If Christianity ever came back again to be the law of the land, like Islam is in Iran, do you think that they would start burning people again? It would serve as a good lesson to others of what happens to sinners when they die, according to Christianity. I am sure that if a Totalitarian "messenger of God" suggested this to his brainwashed flock, they would go along with it. If religion is wrong when it forms the government, then it is wrong, period.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Trimdingman

[paris]

Paris, do you believe in Hell? If so, then you believe that burning a person at the stake would be just a small taste of what he will get after he dies if he is a non-believer. If Christianity ever came back again to be the law of the land, like Islam is in Iran, do you think that they would start burning people again? It would serve as a good lesson to others of what happens to sinners when they die, according to Christianity. I am sure that if a Totalitarian "messenger of God" suggested this to his brainwashed flock, they would go along with it. If religion is wrong when it is government, then it is wrong, period.

Question 1 answer, Yes I do believe in Hell.

Question 2 answer, Yes, I believe "they" would start burning people again!

I don't agree with your last sentence Trimdingman.

If you read the Old Testament, Especially Exodus and Samuel, the God the Israelites followed, was a ruthless God. He was very unforgiving to the people who didn't do as commanded. I guess it could be said that God himself is the greatest murderer of all time! The problem we run into is, when the "they" people start thinking that "they" can do God's bidding for Him. That's what has happened to the religions of the world. We now have these religious "leaders" in all of the different religions who think they are doing God a favor by "carrying out" His laws for Him! They forgot that God is the creator and therefore has exclusive rights to be a murderer if He so chooses. We dont have the capacity to understand His way of thought on the subject. We see black and white; murder, or not. Thats why we were comanded to NOT "kill", period!

It's interesting to see how things have gotten twisted to suit the "they" people's needs through the centuries.

I believe that the founders of the United States of America understood this logic and therefore mandated the Church and State separation. They were believers in God. I dont know if they had an actual religion but it doesn't matter. They were smart enough to know that the nut-casses of the world would and could gain power at some point and start the burning that you speak of if they didn't prevent it at the beginning.

[Trimdingman]

Question 1 answer, Yes I do believe in Hell.

Question 2 answer, Yes, I believe "they" would start burning people again!

I don't agree with your last sentence Trimdingman.

If you read the Old Testament, Especially Exodus and Samuel, the God the Israelites followed, was a ruthless God. He was very unforgiving to the people who didn't do as commanded. I guess it could be said that God himself is the greatest murderer of all time! The problem we run into is, when the "they" people start thinking that "they" can do God's bidding for Him. That's what has happened to the religions of the world. We now have these religious "leaders" in all of the different religions who think they are doing God a favor by "carrying out" His laws for Him! They forgot that God is the creator and therefore has exclusive rights to be a murderer if He so chooses. We dont have the capacity to understand His way of thought on the subject. We see black and white; murder, or not. Thats why we were comanded to NOT "kill", period!

It's interesting to see how things have gotten twisted to suit the "they" people's needs through the centuries.

I believe that the founders of the United States of America understood this logic and therefore mandated the Church and State separation. They were believers in God. I dont know if they had an actual religion but it doesn't matter. They were smart enough to know that the nut-casses of the world would and could gain power at some point and start the burning that you speak of if they didn't prevent it at the beginning.

 

 

So, what you are saying is that your relationship with your God is one more based on fear than love. I say that Christianity was invented by man, and therefore anything done in its name by man is a legitimate crime done under that religion. Tell me one irrefutable future discovery that is mentioned in the Bible. I can name many glaring omissions, like the Western Hemisphere, and the dinosaurs. The universe was supposed to have been "created" in seven days. Modern science says that it didn't happen that way. Some Christians are now trying to spin this seven day idea to mean something else. They have to, or their whole religion goes down the tubes. Seven days is seven days. The guy who wrote it meant it.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Trimdingman

[paris]

So, what you are saying is that your relationship with your God is one more based on fear than love. I say that Christianity was invented by man, and therefore anything done in its name by man is a legitimate crime done under that religion. Tell me one irrefutable future discovery that is mentioned in the Bible. I can name many glaring omissions, like the Western Hemisphere, and the dinosaurs. The universe was supposed to have been "created" in seven days. Modern science says that it didn't happen that way. Some Christians are now trying to spin this seven day idea to mean something else. They have to, or their whole religion goes down the tubes. Seven days is seven days. The guy who wrote it meant it.

By demanding "proof" you are displaying agnostic tendencies. Pump claims atheist whereby he is absolute in his assertion that there is no higher being or diety.

I dont recall a section in the Bible that gives dates and times for future events. In fact, what is often stated is that "no man knows" those details. According to the Son of God, He doesn't even know those details where the "end" is concerned.

I think it is up to us, as individuals, to decide whether or not there is evidence enough to satisfy our questions regarding God's existence. Supplying a specific date and time for the happening of a future event would destroy faith! Everything would become "absolute" thereby negating an individuals "free will"as it has been given to us by the Creator.

Thats the beauty of it Trimdingman. You have the free will to NOT believe. However, it brings us back to your first question with regards to "fear". And, yes, anyone who has ever read the Bible should have plenty of fear of God. It don't look healthy to get on His bad side. :shades:

[Pumpmaster]

Pumpmaster,

Answer this question for me please. Was there ever a time in your life when you had a belief in a God? This is not meant to be a trick question in any way.

 

 

That's better; see, you can be civil!

 

And I promise this is not a "smart-ass" answer: define "god."

[Pumpmaster]

Not sure God would be allow to stay here since he would be classified as an Illegal Alien and would have to be deported out of the country. :shades:

 

"god" is not only an illegal alien---he's just pretend.

 

And your avatar is hands-down (or hands-on) the best I've ever seen!

[mettech]

"god" is not only an illegal alien---he's just pretend.

 

And your avatar is hands-down (or hands-on) the best I've ever seen!

 

Thanks.

God made it for us to view. :happy feet: :shades:

Edited February 8, 2008 by mettech

[Trimdingman]

By demanding "proof" you are displaying agnostic tendencies. Pump claims atheist whereby he is absolute in his assertion that there is no higher being or diety.

I dont recall a section in the Bible that gives dates and times for future events. In fact, what is often stated is that "no man knows" those details. According to the Son of God, He doesn't even know those details where the "end" is concerned.

I think it is up to us, as individuals, to decide whether or not there is evidence enough to satisfy our questions regarding God's existence. Supplying a specific date and time for the happening of a future event would destroy faith! Everything would become "absolute" thereby negating an individuals "free will"as it has been given to us by the Creator.

Thats the beauty of it Trimdingman. You have the free will to NOT believe. However, it brings us back to your first question with regards to "fear". And, yes, anyone who has ever read the Bible should have plenty of fear of God. It don't look healthy to get on His bad side. :shades:

 

It's like your friendly neighbourhood loan shark. If you don't pay up, he breaks your legs. It was a cruel twist of fate that landed me in this universe. Whoa! You almost had me there. If I don't believe it, then it doesn't exist, and it can't punish me. You see, my father told me that religion is lies. That is why I never got indoctrinated. I am free. I am more intelligent because my ideas don't have to be funnelled through religious dogma. I can know about ancient history and dinosaurs. I can know about superstring theory and quantum gravity and alternate states. I can say that the sun is the centre of the solar system without guilt. I don't have to pay protection money to a priest. I don't have to perform rituals whenever common sense threatens my faith in some ridiculous fantasy. What about all of the devout followers of the countless other religions? How can you be sure that they are all wrong? I don't understand this phenomenon because I was lucky enough to escape being drawn in as a child. I guess that the North American Indians who lived before the Bible was written didn't even have a chance at salvation. They had their own false religions. Belief in religion seems to be a common human trait. It is the perfect scam because you don't get your reward until you are dead. How can anyone bust them for it? They get to fleece the flock tax free, and it's legal. I want to start up a religion. No wonder there are so many of them.

Edited February 8, 2008 by Trimdingman

[paris]

It's like your friendly neighbourhood loan shark. If you don't pay up, he breaks your legs. It was a cruel twist of fate that landed me in this universe. Whoa! You almost had me there. If I don't believe it, then it doesn't exist, and it can't punish me. You see, my father told me that religion is lies. That is why I never got indoctrinated. I am free. I am more intelligent because my ideas don't have to be funnelled through religious dogma. I can know about ancient history and dinosaurs. I can know about superstring theory and quantum gravity and alternate states. I can say that the sun is the centre of the solar system without guilt. I don't have to pay protection money to a priest. I don't have to perform rituals whenever common sense threatens my faith in some ridiculous fantasy. What about all of the devout followers of the countless other religions? How can you be sure that they are all wrong? I don't understand this phenomenon because I was lucky enough to escape being drawn in as a child. I guess that the North American Indians who lived before the Bible was written didn't even have a chance at salvation. They had their own false religions. Belief in religion seems to be a common human trait. It is the perfect scam because you don't get your reward until you are dead. How can anyone bust them for it? They get to fleece the flock tax free, and it's legal. I want to start up a religion. No wonder there are so many of them.

Ok, I'll bite.

For the people in the world that didn't recieve "the word" that there is a Creator, and we will all someday stand before Him in judgement, I don't know their fate.

The problem you have is the fact that YOU have been made aware of the existence of the Creator, who admittedly is not real tolorant to the "arrogance of man".

Now, at the time you were made aware of this little tidbit, you gained ownership of what we call "free will". You can accept what you have been told, or not. BUT, do you really want to take the chance that you are smarter than millions of people b4 you, who believed in Him? Some of the most brilliant people who ever walked this planet are/were firm believers that God exists.

Now, you can blame your parents. Pumpmaster can point to the struggles he has underwent in his life as proof of a nonexistent God. You can dismiss all of this God thing as bullshit if you so choose. Thats the beauty of free will. Something to consider though, there is evidence suggesting that some of the most devout atheists got religion on their death beds. Kinda makes you wonder what they might have seen.

[paris]

That's better; see, you can be civil!

 

And I promise this is not a "smart-ass" answer: define "god."

Thank you very much Pumpmaster!

Ok. I will define "God" as follows:

"The creator of all that is."

Have a great day!

[Trimdingman]

Ok, I'll bite.

For the people in the world that didn't recieve "the word" that there is a Creator, and we will all someday stand before Him in judgement, I don't know their fate.

The problem you have is the fact that YOU have been made aware of the existence of the Creator, who admittedly is not real tolorant to the "arrogance of man".

Now, at the time you were made aware of this little tidbit, you gained ownership of what we call "free will". You can accept what you have been told, or not. BUT, do you really want to take the chance that you are smarter than millions of people b4 you, who believed in Him? Some of the most brilliant people who ever walked this planet are/were firm believers that God exists.

Now, you can blame your parents. Pumpmaster can point to the struggles he has underwent in his life as proof of a nonexistent God. You can dismiss all of this God thing as bullshit if you so choose. Thats the beauty of free will. Something to consider though, there is evidence suggesting that some of the most devout atheists got religion on their death beds. Kinda makes you wonder what they might have seen.

 

You are thinking inside your little box. Therefore you are boxed in. There are artificial limitations placed on your ability to reason. You will not even consider any possibility that excludes your religion. If a student must always be inferior to his teacher, and then his student has to be inferior to him, after a while, people will become very narrow minded. If I were to ever get through to you, and cause you to doubt your faith, you would be compelled to pray and perform rituals until your doubts were gone. Doesn't that send up a red flag? It should.

 

I am not blaming my parents for anything. My mother was a Christian. My father was an Athiest. I am a person with an open mind. There could be higher powers, but no religion knows what they are. Religions are just using people's fears and superstitions to control them and take their money.

 

There are smart people in every religion. There are smart Liberals. Even smart people can be brainwashed, especially if they are gotten to when they are very young. There is nothing remarkable about Christianity compared to other religions. You believe that all other religions were just made up, except Christianity. Christianity was an obscure religion and would have died out if the Roman emperor had not seized upon it as an opportunity to consolidate his power by making it the official religion. I wouldn't want to be a non-Christian in those days.

[Hard Driver]

It's easy to claim there is no God. Do you think He is surprised by this arrogant statement?

Many talk this way until they are actually faced with the last beat of their heart. Then all the "talk" is reallity and they are responsible for their statements! It seems like something far away until it happens.

 

Excuses satisfy only those who make them. The God of The Holy Bible is a loving God but don't be fooled in to thinking you will be able to "bargain" with Him! It will be too late.

Edited February 8, 2008 by Hard Driver

[gunnut69]

You are thinking inside your little box. Therefore you are boxed in. There are artificial limitations placed on your ability to reason. You will not even consider any possibility that excludes your religion. If a student must always be inferior to his teacher, and then his student has to be inferior to him, after a while, people will become very narrow minded. If I were to ever get through to you, and cause you to doubt your faith, you would be compelled to pray and perform rituals until your doubts were gone. Doesn't that send up a red flag? It should.

 

I am not blaming my parents for anything. My mother was a Christian. My father was an Athiest. I am a person with an open mind. There could be higher powers, but no religion knows what they are. Religions are just using people's fears and superstitions to control them and take their money.

 

There are smart people in every religion. There are smart Liberals. Even smart people can be brainwashed, especially if they are gotten to when they are very young. There is nothing remarkable about Christianity compared to other religions. You believe that all other religions were just made up, except Christianity. Christianity was an obscure religion and would have died out if the Roman emperor had not seized upon it as an opportunity to consolidate his power by making it the official religion. I wouldn't want to be a non-Christian in those days.

well put,trimding