OAC What do you think about this Contract?

[xstapr]

GuyfromSTAP IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR JOB FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS QUIT!

 

tim hortons will hire you for 8.75/hr

WOW! You sound like my commiteeman. (that's not a good thing)

[GuyfromSTAP]

in 1982 we gave away 9 p.p.h. days and other things.

 

by 1983 we were retooling for crown vic

 

it's called responsible barganing

 

and we live to fight another day

 

We live to fight another day without this...the car is being built to 2010-11 anyways.In 2005 we heard this exact thing and low and behold we went back to 1 shift losing all those jobs.We need a contract with actually teeth instead of Ford promising to keep us open to 2011 unless they decide not to.That isn't fair to us and you'd hope our union would be looking out for all of CAW members needs and not throwing the 1400 of us at Stap under the bus.If you've been there before 1982 I suppose this works for you as you'll be close enough to a pension but to not think about how this affects junior members is definately not union type thinking IMO.

Edited May 3, 2008 by GuyfromSTAP

[dad2]

We live to fight another day without this...the car is being built to 2010-11 anyways.In 2005 we heard this exact thing and low and behold we went back to 1 shift losing all those jobs.We need a contract with actually teeth instead of Ford promising to keep us open to 2011 unless they decide not to.That isn't fair to us and you'd hope our union would be looking out for all of CAW members needs and not throwing the 1400 of us at Stap under the bus.If you've been there before 1982 I suppose this works for you as you'll be close enough to a pension but to not think about how this affects junior members is definately not union type thinking IMO.

 

 

would you rather close july 2010 or stay until sept. 2011

[gocash]

I have been at STAP for 9 years....adding the extra year to 2011 does absolutely nothing for me....I realize we are in tough times in the auto industry at the present time.However,I do not believe in CONCESSIONS,but also realize that we need to and can give up a little if it means FUTURE INVESTMENT....paying 10% of prescriptions is OK with me.....having a wage freeze is OK with me....having a COLA freeze is NOT OK with me,we are in for huge inflation increase in the next 18 months because of the price of oil and gas and it will trickle into everything else very soon like food etc.but I am willing to accept the COLA freeze also.At the present time and leading up to this summer Oakville AP is holding the cards,STAP is being raped.OAP needs 500 new hires and a successful launch of the FORD FLEX and FOMOCO needs a DEAL very soon.This is the only leverage that STAP and the CAW is ever going to have to save ST.THOMAS from closure.All CAW members need to realize this.We have 4 months left of our current contract,WE SHOULD NOT BE LED BY OUR UNION INTO ACCEPTING THIS "FIRST OFFER" with this much time remaining.Giving up 40 hours vacation(EA),should be negotiated into giving up a SPA week instead.WE will NEVER get these 40hrs EA back in the future,MARK MY WORDS.IF I was at Oakville,I would vote NO without hesitation.But I am at STAP so it is a tougher decision for me.We NEED to send CAW back to the table and get more investment for STAP now.and a better deal,because it is not a "strike "situation until September.500 new hires are needed at OAP and the Windsor and STAP should have first chance to transfer before anyone is hired off the street.I personally wouldn't transfer but I feel we should have that choice,with no REAL plans for STAPs future.I will have my 10yr pension in just over a years time.That is all the future means to me right now.Having the lump sum cash payments are very tempting and will sway many into accepting this deal.I WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS DEAL AT THIS TIME PERIOD.I WILL BE VOTING NO to this current agreement,and this is why......Our CAW has had over 2 years since the notification of STAP reducing to 1 shift,never once telling any of us MEMBERS that FORD planned to cease production in 2010 at STAP,and now the say they have SAVED STAP for 1 extra year to 2011...To be honest,I don't really want an extra year and I don't care for it if it's going to close in 2011 anyway.I want OUR union to make sure in writing that when STAP does close it's doors for good,that WE walk away with a severance package equal to or better than the latest buyout offers of $140,000,plus our SUB benefits for 104 weeks.Make it too expensive for Ford to even want to close STAP down.Of course I want STAP to remain open long enough for me to get 30yr pension,but this is highly unlikely,and very obvious at this point that it isn't going to happen.If this deal somehow gets ratified,I will accept the consequences like the rest of us NO voters will have to do.And at least I''l have some lump some cash payments to look forward to.ACCEPTING this offer on Sunday,at this early point is throwing in the towel,In 2011 FORD will be able to make UAW and CAW fight head to head over any future investment because both contracts will be expiring at the same time,and the UAW will totally crush the CAW because by then they will have soooo many 2nd tier wage workers,they will have complete cost savings domination over CAW bargaining.Just my thoughts,here's to hoping someone feeds it to WHITEY and his clan of idiots at tomorrow's vote.Peace Out,GOCASH

[GuyfromSTAP]

would you rather close july 2010 or stay until sept. 2011

 

Would I rather us close 2010 or 11?If we are closing either way 1 extra year isn't buying my vote on this.If we are closing in 2010 or 2011 I'd rather try to get the best offer possible with possibilities of transfer for those that want them.If we know we are done,be nice for someone to tell us,then it's really the perfect time to try and benefit our brother and sisters that will work on in Windsor and Oakville by getting them a better agreement because if we are closing who gives two shits about an extra 12 months.If we are going down close the fuckin doors now...obviously that won't happen because Ford is going to make money on us as long as they want.

Dad read the deal....Ford will keep us open till 2011 if market conditions dictate that...2011 isn't guarenteed and this deal does nothing to help the market of our aging cars.Go ahead and fool yourself but if you can't read what the article says that might explain your thickness on the 2010 or 2011 closure issue.

[Jaah]

would you rather close july 2010 or stay until sept. 2011

 

 

Stap will close 2010 or 2011 or even 2009 regardless of weather we accept this offer or not. If sales plummet in 2009 we will be finished, here is your buyout enjoy your future. We can't force Ford to operate the plant at a loss through contract language. All we can do is make sure we get the best we can for our members when it happens. Now is the time to bargain for for that while we still have a bit of leverage not after they announce a closure. If you wish to to see the glass half full and hope for a new product, that is fine but realize that if we do get one it will have little or nothing to with this contract. In 2011 be prepared for much greater concessions in trade for it. Oh, and yes that will be on top of the concessions we give them now for nothing.

[1520 man]

in 1982 we gave away 9 p.p.h. days and other things.

 

by 1983 we were retooling for crown vic

 

it's called responsible barganing

 

and we live to fight another day

 

He's right! I'm also voting yes. The economy is going to shit. Just a year ago things were much better, 6 months from now gas, food, construction, everything will cost much more. You people that think we have a fight, your wrong. If there was a fight the CAW would be there. You need to look around your own neighorhoods, how many people do you know have lost there jobs. It's only the beginning. Don't say you don't care if stap close in 2010 because you do, take the deal and live to fight another day. We don't want to play chicken with a multi billion dollar corporation. They have more money than we do, and in the long run they will win.

[GuyfromSTAP]

He's right! I'm also voting yes. The economy is going to shit. Just a year ago things were much better, 6 months from now gas, food, construction, everything will cost much more. You people that think we have a fight, your wrong. If there was a fight the CAW would be there. You need to look around your own neighorhoods, how many people do you know have lost there jobs. It's only the beginning. Don't say you don't care if stap close in 2010 because you do, take the deal and live to fight another day. We don't want to play chicken with a multi billion dollar corporation. They have more money than we do, and in the long run they will win.

 

Please tell me how you are in better position to "fight another day" then we are now with Oakville ramping up?You expect everything to be rosy in 10 or 11?Simple question...just want to see your logic.I believe everyone has said they can live with this contract if we had a job but when Ford closes us in 10 or 11 as our union is now telling us how does this contract help us?Two simple questions that you must have the rationale for.I've seen the fight the CAW is putting up the last 6-10 years at Stap.They have poor slobs doing more work,working unreal hours to try to show good faith and keep pumping the cars out on 1 shift that are needed.What do we tell the people in Body and Paint now?Where is their incentive to keep working 11,12 hours a day.If I worked in either dep't and this is ratified I'd want another vote taken on longer hours because those people did their part and aren't rewarded.You can't keep bending over and accept everything Ford wants...what is the purpose of a union anyways?If Ford doesn't want to give security to Stap then I guess 1520 needs to limit how many cars go out the door because it's all profit on our cars.If we only work what we have to no way Ford can make enough cars to meet orders.I think it's very wrong to think we have no power here just in Stap let alone OAC holding numerous trump cards in the next few months.

[Jaah]

Please, PLease Mr. Ford don't close our plant, I'll....I'll work for free! I just could'nt go on without those 11 hr work days, I have no life outside Ford, where will I socialize, who will I talk to. I know you have been a good provider in the past and I know your only producing 120,000 units this year to give me a place to come to, but it can't end can it. If I work for free will you still keep the plant open, or.. or wait, if I pay you could I still work and use the gym afterwards. OH PLEASE, PLEASE MR. Ford.

[gocash]

Please tell me how you are in better position to "fight another day" then we are now with Oakville ramping up?You expect everything to be rosy in 10 or 11?Simple question...just want to see your logic.I believe everyone has said they can live with this contract if we had a job but when Ford closes us in 10 or 11 as our union is now telling us how does this contract help us?Two simple questions that you must have the rationale for.I've seen the fight the CAW is putting up the last 6-10 years at Stap.They have poor slobs doing more work,working unreal hours to try to show good faith and keep pumping the cars out on 1 shift that are needed.What do we tell the people in Body and Paint now?Where is their incentive to keep working 11,12 hours a day.If I worked in either dep't and this is ratified I'd want another vote taken on longer hours because those people did their part and aren't rewarded.You can't keep bending over and accept everything Ford wants...what is the purpose of a union anyways?If Ford doesn't want to give security to Stap then I guess 1520 needs to limit how many cars go out the door because it's all profit on our cars.If we only work what we have to no way Ford can make enough cars to meet orders.I think it's very wrong to think we have no power here just in Stap let alone OAC holding numerous trump cards in the next few months.

I agree with you....this is the last chance for STAP with Oakville holding the trump cards and were making cars at 12k-15k per unit profit.....Last Chance 1520 folks....if this contract gets ratified tomorrow,we have no one to blame but ourselves......SEND OUR NATIONAL BACK TO THE TABLE TOMORROW!!!!! VOTE NO

[Aces]

BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

A lot of talk from people who have not negotiated anything in their lives.

 

If you think you can do better than our national Ford bargaining council run in the next election.

 

I think that we got the best available and kept ourselves in the game for new work.

 

Tough times require solidarity not whining!

[GuyfromSTAP]

BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

A lot of talk from people who have not negotiated anything in their lives.

 

If you think you can do better than our national Ford bargaining council run in the next election.

 

I think that we got the best available and kept ourselves in the game for new work.

 

Tough times require solidarity not whining!

 

You part of the union?What have you negotiated in your life that you think you know more then us?Talk about a pompus asshole.Tell us all your genius contracts you've done?So solidarity is accepting positions blindly because you are told to?Wow talk about someone that has no idea on how unions should be run.I think you will see a HUGE turnover in the next elections but even that is probably useless after we are told to turn the lights out in 2010.Some would probably be willing to live with this if 2011 was guarenteed,which it isn't.We got absofuckenlutly nothing in this deal,just had stuff taken away.Even someone as dense as me who hasn't done near as many contracts in my short 50 years can figure that out so I'd expect someone as sharp as yourself could see it.

Edited May 3, 2008 by GuyfromSTAP

[Aces]

You part of the union?What have you negotiated in your life that you think you know more then us?Talk about a pompus asshole.Tell us all your genius contracts you've done?So solidarity is accepting positions blindly because you are told to?Wow talk about someone that has no idea on how unions should be run.I think you will see a HUGE turnover in the next elections but even that is probably useless after we are told to turn the lights out in 2010.Some would probably be willing to live with this if 2011 was guarenteed,which it isn't.We got absofuckenlutly nothing in this deal,just had stuff taken away.Even someone as dense as me who hasn't done near as many contracts in my short 50 years can figure that out so I'd expect someone as sharp as yourself could see it.

 

As far as I know we are all part of the union.

 

I hope we still are for many years to come.

 

We are doing better than thousands of other previous ford workers including those still laid off from the Oakville truck closing.

 

Good luck in your election.

[GuyfromSTAP]

As far as I know we are all part of the union.

 

I hope we still are for many years to come.

 

We are doing better than thousands of other previous ford workers including those still laid off from the Oakville truck closing.

 

Good luck in your election.

 

So your answer is no you haven't handled any contracts either other then day to day stuff.Interesting that you call us whiners when you are just one of us.Yes those laidoff people in Oakville sure will have it bad coming this fall.I hope hope hope we never have it as bad as Oakville will in the fall.Good Point!

Edited May 3, 2008 by GuyfromSTAP

[Jaah]

BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

A lot of talk from people who have not negotiated anything in their lives.

You Sir have no idea what people here have or have not negotiated in the past, don't make such outlandish statements.

 

you think you can do better than our national Ford bargaining council run in the next election.

Elections are not about who is best for the job but who is most popular, ocassionally they coincide.

 

I think that we got the best available and kept ourselves in the game for new work.

If you think we got the best deal, please explain? We are in the game until we are no longer sell cars, this contract has little or no relevence on obtaining a new product. If it did the concessions would be much steeper.

 

Tough times require solidarity not whining!

I totally agree, most posters here are merely trying to present a different view away from the party line, if that bothers you then maybe you should take a hard look at who is doing the whining.

[Aces]

Thanks to CAW 1520 leadership we went to one shift with NO layoffs.

 

The guys I'm talking about in Oakville have been off for years and now have no recall rights. Some MAY get rehired if they had good records.

 

This is the time to support our leadership.

 

They have done their best to support us and to get the best deal they can.

[justnthrmushroom]

BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

A lot of talk from people who have not negotiated anything in their lives.

 

If you think you can do better than our national Ford bargaining council run in the next election.

 

I think that we got the best available and kept ourselves in the game for new work.

 

Tough times require solidarity not whining!

 

I totally agree! We require solidarity. But what point are we solid on? Oh, yes no two tier although it already exists within the CAW. Any CAMI folks on here? Are you guys at wage parity with us yet?

As for solidarity lets see a little less saving face Buzz and more solidarity with the membership.

 

Live to fight tomorrow? If you wish to procrastinate do it at your own expense. I wish to fight NOW!

[justnthrmushroom]

Thanks to CAW 1520 leadership we went to one shift with NO layoffs.

 

The guys I'm talking about in Oakville have been off for years and now have no recall rights. Some MAY get rehired if they had good records.

 

This is the time to support our leadership.

 

They have done their best to support us and to get the best deal they can.

 

Sounds like someones golf partner is on the Master Bargaining Committee.

[Captain723]

Sounds like someones golf partner is on the Master Bargaining Committee.

Do you guys have many that drive something other than a Ford??

[Jaah]

Thanks to CAW 1520 leadership we went to one shift with NO layoffs.

 

Also...

 

*11 hr days

*forced OT for trades

*1 for 1 for contractors instead of full utilization

*messed up the start time for Shift and day workers

*and reduced manpower and rearanged work loads so it is near impossible to get time off due to insufficient numbers

 

... are a few other things we have endured.

 

I know our leadership did not initialize the above, but the standard reply to complaints was, "live with it, we are trying to get new product". Good job, oh yea, when will the new product be arriving???

Edited May 4, 2008 by Jaah

[Aces]

Also...

 

*11 hr days

*forced OT for trades

*1 for 1 for contractors instead of full utilization

*messed up the start time for Shift and day workers

*and reduced manpower and rearanged work loads so it is near impossible to get time off due to insufficient numbers

 

... are a few other things we have endured.

 

I know our leadership did not initialize the above, but the standard reply to complaints was, "live with it, we are trying to get new product". Good job, oh yea, when will the new product be arriving???

Lots of "ME FIRST" here and very little consideration for the rest of us.

 

Union means all not one.

[justnthrmushroom]

Also...

 

*11 hr days

*forced OT for trades

*1 for 1 for contractors instead of full utilization

*messed up the start time for Shift and day workers

*and reduced manpower and rearanged work loads so it is near impossible to get time off due to insufficient numbers

 

... are a few other things we have endured.

 

I know our leadership did not initialize the above, but the standard reply to complaints was, "live with it, we are trying to get new product". Good job, oh yea, when will the new product be arriving???

 

Buzz... looks like you missed the STAP/Windsor membership bus. Financial settlements don't provide for job stability. Please vote not to this first offer and send our bargaining committees' back to seek what is truly important... solid product commitment.

[justnthrmushroom]

Lots of "ME FIRST" here and very little consideration for the rest of us.

 

Union means all not one.

 

Full of rhetoric aren't we? Solidarity, all for one and one for all, follow me I will lead... stop and think about this we are 4 months early. Ask the question why are we 4 months early? Does this really serve all of our memberships or is it a sign of solidarity with Ford? For little in return. Three words "solid product commitment".

 

There is no reason for the national to rush this process! If the national knows something we should be informed. After all I keep hearing how the CAW organizational structure is an upside down pyramid with the membership as the most powerful body.

[Jaah]

Lots of "ME FIRST" here and very little consideration for the rest of us.

 

Union means all not one.

Do you have trouble expressing yourself or is comprehension your problem. You want to resort to personal attacks, you just cast the first stone.

 

Only two of the five issues I mention effected me personally, I fail to see where your "Me First" comment comes from. Considering you don't know me and had no clue as to which issues if any applied to myself, I wonder how far you would be willing go to support others if it might be to some personal detriment of your own. "Me First" you better take a look in the mirror.

[foxrun]

Meeting should be over by now. Anyone got news?