suv_guy_19 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 (edited) CBC And look at the lovely comments below :rolleyes: Well, some are stupid. Edited June 16, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 PR stunt by Honda. Nothing more, but alas, the media eats it up. Ford has been running fuel cell vehicles in test fleets for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAdams Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 PR stunt by Honda. Nothing more, but alas, the media eats it up. Ford has been running fuel cell vehicles in test fleets for years. It's laughable that alternative energy sources are becoming more and more important every day but the fact that this isn't a Ford story makes it a PR stunt. Honda actually DELIVERED these vehicles -- HUGE difference between that and mules in a test fleet. The FCX was the first fuel cell vehicle to be delivered to actual retail [lease] customers and now their second-generation (and much improved) FCX Clarity model is being delivered to its retail customers. If that's not worthy of mention in automotive news circles, I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Its the EV-2! :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobu37 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 It's laughable that alternative energy sources are becoming more and more important every day but the fact that this isn't a Ford story makes it a PR stunt. Honda actually DELIVERED these vehicles -- HUGE difference between that and mules in a test fleet. The FCX was the first fuel cell vehicle to be delivered to actual retail [lease] customers and now their second-generation (and much improved) FCX Clarity model is being delivered to its retail customers. If that's not worthy of mention in automotive news circles, I don't know what is. I believe the point that was being made was that by providing these vehicles to some relatively high profile greenies it has the aura of a publicity stunt. Honda itself has acknowledged that these are nowhere near practical for wide scale distribution and are many years away from production, if ever. Honda claims they are providing these to the public to help them in their testing. The value of having the public test a new technology instead of engineers is debatable. Ford has been "testing" hydrogen powered buses down in Florida for at least two years. The entire bus fleet at one of the amusement parks down there is powered by Ford Hydrogen V8s. None of the bus drivers are famous actors so Ford's approach is more scientific as opposed to the high profile approach that Honda is using. By testing in an environment where the fueling station can be contained seems more practical than having the public search out the nearest fueling station. However, it is marketing such as this that has led to the imports perceived superiority so kudos to Honda for being consistent. They will probably pull the plug on this project once they discover these cars en masse on the side of the roads due to the drivers not being able to get to the one refueling station in a 50 mile radius. Motorists seeing all these Hondas "broke down" on the side of the road will diminish the perception of Honda quality and the higher ups at Honda will have none of that leading to the suspension of this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 (edited) PR stunt by Honda. Nothing more, but alas, the media eats it up. Ford has been running fuel cell vehicles in test fleets for years. Here's more on this sham: "Japan's third biggest automaker expects to lease out a "few dozen" units this year and about 200 units within three years. In California, a three-year lease will run $600 a month, which includes maintenance and collision coverage. Among the first customers are actress Jamie Lee Curtis and filmmaker husband Christopher Guest, actress Laura Harris, film producer Ron Yerxa, as well as businessmen Jon Spallino and Jim Salomon. "It's so smooth," said Harris, who played villainness Marie Warner on the hit TV show "24" and was flown over by Honda for the ceremony. "It's like a future machine, but it's not."" So a dozen rich 'celebrities' can drive around in them... Talk about all the cred they are going to get with the lemming greenies. The cost will be 100% write off to hide the fact that these cars probably cost well into the 6 figures each, and the 20 or so they put in high-profile hands will be meticulously monitored. A false sense of achievement only enjoyed by the rich who already live in dreamland who will non-stop expel how everyone should get one! how wonderful. The anti-American contingent will love good old Honda and buy the common-man tin shitboxes they sell in droves.... Of course the amount of pollution and lack of efficiency caused making the hydrogen and the complete lack of usefulness of this car will never be mentioned. Just like hybrid batteries that grow on trees and dissolve into the air like pixie dust(and not shipped to third-world countries for barefoot children to 'recycle' for dollars a month of course). I'm so glad this will be on the front page everywhere with typical cut-and-paste journalism....Technically it will cost them millions in the toilet for the program itself, but still cheaper with all the free advertising. Edited June 16, 2008 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 "Japan's third biggest automaker expects to lease out a "few dozen" units this year and about 200 units within three years. In California, a three-year lease will run $600 a month, which includes maintenance and collision coverage. Wow! Only $600 a month? Yep. These fuel cells are definitely ready for primetime. As I said, and as the above two responses pretty clearly stated, it's a PR stunt. Nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 (edited) I would have to agree that the Clarity at this point is to bolster a greener image for Honda. Let's face it, even in CA it's not exactly practical. But it does show a significant investment in alternative fuel technology. That's a good thing, as it is with Ford's AFT vehicles and any other manufacturer. While a $600/month lease is way outside what most of us would consider paying, it's not quite rich/movie-star only status car payment. Many people pay that much for crappy Escalades, or higher end German offerings. Vehicles as a whole, aren't cheap. Here in SoCal where you can't run Pacific Coast Highway without seeing a $80-100K car, it isn't that bad a deal for those with the money. Again, not practical, but not the horrendous expense some are making it out to be. I mean, think about it. What's so bad about driving a vehicle that has zero ties to the big oil? Yeah I'd take a Tesla roadster over this thing, but come on, new technology has to begin somewhere. Some people have to make sacrifices with cost and practicality to test these new technologies. Gas engines will be around until oil dries up, but alternatives should be pursued by every manufacturer. And for the record, Honda doesn't sell vehicles based on the Clarity. They sell sell them because they make quality vehicles, and their small-engine performance/reliability is pretty amazing. And as RAdams stated, delivering these vehicles to the retail segment is a big deal. When Ford does it with the Edge plug-ins, they should get the same press. (They probably won't given some industry bias, but they should.) To say you are working on something at the testing/prototype stage is great, but to actually get something into people's hands - for them to experience....tell their friends, etc- is something else, even if those folks are a bit higher in the income bracket. Whether HFC vehicles are even viable or not, this is a good thing for Honda and the automotive industry as a whole. New technology isn't the devil, folks. Again, it isn't 1955, thank Christ. <EDIT> I just saw the CNN article here. What interests me more than the car is the "home Hydrogen plant" mentioned at the end of the article. Now that would definitely be interesting, if it were even possible. Edited June 16, 2008 by the_spaniard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilkilla Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 biggest benefit to honda? A consumer that leases a hybrid vehicle is not eligible for the credit. The credit is allowed to the vehicle owner, including the lessor of a vehicle subject to a lease. That means that the lessor (the person who leases the vehicle to the consumer) is the person who can claim a credit for the vehicle. source tax credit goes to lessor(a la plug-in leases that were taken back just to be destroyed by every manufacturer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 There's no need for 'alternative energy' sources. The true solution is coal to liquid hydrocarbon fuel conversions, fueled by nuclear power plants(which can also make hydrogen). We also happen to be the nation with the largest coal reserves in the world. 5 years ago they used to say how expensive the 'technology' to do this would be, that oil would have to reach an incredibly high price of $30-$40 a barrel. Coal was converted to fuel in WWII and some nations do it now. It can be done almost pollution-free using nuclear power plants for the heat source to do it. If efficiency does not change at all, we have a 300 year supply(and not considering changing coal power plants to nuclear reduces the need for their fuel)....As of right now, Hydrogen is extremely inefficient to produce, like ethanol, another pipe-dream with disastrous consequences and completely inefficient to produce, and long-term causing more damage oil ever will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boorgm Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 http://www.greencar.com/features/vision-award/ the Chevy Equinox Fuel Cell won out over fellow nominees including the BMW Hydrogen 7, Honda FCX Clarity, Phoenix Electric SUT, and Toyota Prius Plug-In. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 It's laughable that alternative energy sources are becoming more and more important every day but the fact that this isn't a Ford story makes it a PR stunt. Honda actually DELIVERED these vehicles -- HUGE difference between that and mules in a test fleet. The FCX was the first fuel cell vehicle to be delivered to actual retail [lease] customers and now their second-generation (and much improved) FCX Clarity model is being delivered to its retail customers. If that's not worthy of mention in automotive news circles, I don't know what is. Couldn't agree more. Instead Ford pours money into a a plug-in hybrid fuel cell vehicle, and hydrogen shuttle buses. Sorry, but a limited number of vehicles handed over to a limited amount of hand picked 'special' people strikes me as nothing but a PR stunt. If it weren't then why would Honda pick the people that they have? It's not like 600 a month is all that expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 It's not like 600 a month is all that expensive. Considering an equivalent Civic lease will probably run you around $200 a month, I would say it's a complete ripoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Considering an equivalent Civic lease will probably run you around $200 a month, I would say it's a complete ripoff. But then you wouldnt be doing your part for the environment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 But then you wouldnt be doing your part for the environment! I think the concept of Smug Pollution is real. I can smell it in the air around me every time I drive the Mustang these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Considering an equivalent Civic lease will probably run you around $200 a month, I would say it's a complete ripoff. Well in all fairness, it is something entirely different and new. While it may not be that expensive, I wouldn't jump all over it for various reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Well in all fairness, it is something entirely different and new. While it may not be that expensive, I wouldn't jump all over it for various reasons. Entirely different and new doesn't make it worthwhile. It may be akin to the people who jumped on HDTV's when they first came out. They may have been the first on the block to own one, but the people who waited a few years ended up buying a BETTER product for a tenth of the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Well in all fairness, it is something entirely different and new. While it may not be that expensive, I wouldn't jump all over it for various reasons. It would probably be about 5 times that price per month if it were a REAL number. The $600 figure makes it sound like its an almost affordable technology. I don't think the celebrities that are going to be getting them could care less either way about the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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