xr7g428 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 How many people that are pro second amendment support the patriot act? Just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 How many people that are pro second amendment support the patriot act? Just curious... Not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Well, first, trimdingman your assumption that police need crime to save their jobs and on and on, uh, NO. I'm suprised somebody didn't say something. If there was less crime then the cops would move to heavier loaded sections or units. If crime took such a nosedive that cops could be layed off, the crime rate would be next to nil and the politicians would be bragging. Do I like/dislike gun laws? I think if you want a gun, get the training, go buy it, register it, carry it if you want. However just handing them out like candy to anybody is wrong. As far as making guns illegal to own/carry/use? BULLSHIT! I live in a country with a bullshit gunlaw and firearm registry etc. As far as I'm concerned it's all bullshit. But if it was done right, would be beneficial. I had a 22 rifle on the farm growing up and one night when I was 10-12 or so saw somebody trying to get into the garage. (we were broken into the previous year by the welfare bums who lived down the road but couldn't prove it) So I grabbed the 22 semi auto and from the upstairs window, opened up. It was dark (about 12:30) and there was no lights on so I was shooting by the light of the moon. I dumped 8 or 9 shots while yelling at them to get off our property. How I missed I don't know but looking back later was some glad I did miss. Mom was not impressed! Dad backed her but defended me for protecting out property. I guess my point is, I could of killed somebody and ruined my life instead of just calling the cops if I didn't have a gun. BUT, if I would of had "formal" training perhaps I would of used restraint :shrug: .....or I might of been a better aim... Anyway, my take is, now the legal citizens can be armed as well as the criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I forgot to add, if anybody is caught using a firearm to commit a crime, they are banned from ever possesing one, and should have the book thrown at them. It's like saying "I agree with shooting anybody that flies the space shuttle while on crack" 1) I don't fly the shuttle and 2) I don't do crack If anybody complains about the law, you better check to see if they are a shuttle pilot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 There are many laws that could be done away with, such as using drugs. It creates drug dealers and gang turf wars and robberies and innocent bystander shootings. For what? Police are opposed to legalizing drugs. It would eliminate half of their work. Police are also opposed to people having guns for their own protection. It would eliminate more of their jobs. There would be fewer armed robberies. The reason why people are not careful with guns is because they have no experience with them. You don't just shoot at something unless you can see what it is. Fire a shotgun loaded with harmless shot into the air. That would have put the run to those bums. You don't shoot somebody for stealing. You only shoot if you believe that you or someone is being threatened. Everybody should recieve gun training as part of their education. This paranoia over guns is wrong. Guns are here to stay. Learn to live with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinter Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Death by "gun control" chart http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart This is what 'governments' can do And I might add for those that interpret the 2nd amendment as only the ‘militia’ should have guns. You might want to check out who the ‘militia’ is according to Federal Law. 10 USC Section 311 311. Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (B) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 Death by "gun control" chart http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart This is what 'governments' can do And I might add for those that interpret the 2nd amendment as only the ‘militia’ should have guns. You might want to check out who the ‘militia’ is according to Federal Law. 10 USC Section 311 311. Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (B) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. Thanks sprinter, good post. However to be technical about it, ever since the first National Guard units were activated and deployed overseas in a conflict they ceased being a malitia and became a ready reserve. A malitia is by definition not subject to be deployed overseas as part of the standing army. They can only be called up or self organize to defend the home country from invasion or attack. Just a technicality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 And in the wake of this supreme court ruling. NRA Sues to Overturn San Francisco's Handgun Ban http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,373122,00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I don't have a problem with firearms (I have a few), but I do have a problem with the NRA. I also think that the average person should be limited to say, three firearms per household, and anyone that wishes to be a "collector" must hold a FFL. I also agree with concealed-carry, but I think it should be much harder to get a permit. In addition to weapon safety training, there should be a battery of psychological exams. As far as the patriot act, shitty legislature from a shitty president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I don't have a problem with firearms (I have a few), but I do have a problem with the NRA. I also think that the average person should be limited to say, three firearms per household, and anyone that wishes to be a "collector" must hold a FFL. I also agree with concealed-carry, but I think it should be much harder to get a permit. In addition to weapon safety training, there should be a battery of psychological exams. As far as the patriot act, shitty legislature from a shitty president. The fore fathers wanted the gov to fear the people, as it is now I don't think delta force fears the people. But if I had the same arsenal as they: bush, mcvain, obama mama, "the clintons" would not be so quick to spend my money and TELL ME WHAT TO DO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Why do you all seem to forget how government is supposed to work? If you don't like what's going on, organize the people, and make a change. Force out the 2 party system, get some good leadership. I didn't really believe how bad thins were in the Us until recently, but it seems that some things really need changing. Wealth was falling before the housing bubble collapsed and is even worse now. As a people you work hard for little pay and are overall unhappy. It quite sad actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Why do you all seem to forget how government is supposed to work? If you don't like what's going on, organize the people, and make a change. Force out the 2 party system, get some good leadership. I didn't really believe how bad thins were in the Us until recently, but it seems that some things really need changing. Wealth was falling before the housing bubble collapsed and is even worse now. As a people you work hard for little pay and are overall unhappy. It quite sad actually. This has been happening over a long period of time. People now are conditioned to the point they think they need the government, it's quite sad. Anything that goes wrong they first look to the government. WHY WE LOVE GOVERNMENT Unlike today's Americans, the founders of our nation were suspicious, if not contemptuous, of government. Consider just a few of their words. James Madison suggested that "All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree." Thomas Paine observed, "We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. . . . It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute." John Adams reminded, "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." Thomas Jefferson gave us several warnings that we've ignored: First, "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." Second, "The greatest [calamity] which could befall [us would be] submission to a government of unlimited powers." And third, "Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." In response to what Jefferson called an "elective despotism," he suggested that "The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." With sentiments like these, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison became presidents. Could a person with similar sentiments win the presidency today? My guess is no. Today's Americans hold such liberty-oriented values in contempt, and any presidential aspirant holding them would have a zero chance of winning office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I'm not arguing this any further. Anyway, I said I didn't want to argue and I won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 (edited) Why do you all seem to forget how government is supposed to work? If you don't like what's going on, organize the people, and make a change. Force out the 2 party system, get some good leadership. I didn't really believe how bad thins were in the Us until recently, but it seems that some things really need changing. Wealth was falling before the housing bubble collapsed and is even worse now. As a people you work hard for little pay and are overall unhappy. It quite sad actually. Uh, trust me bro, we know a heck of a lot more about how government is supposed to work than some guy who thinks people shouldn't be allowed to bear arms for self protection at all times. Additionally, yes as a country we have our issues that we are trying to work out, and we will get them worked out, but seriously, spare us your pitty as if Canada has got it all together and America is falling apart. Were it not for America being what it is you guys up in the great white north would not enjoy anywhere near the quality of life you currently enjoy. Canada has done well in spite of its government, not because of it. PS, Pioneer makes a good point. I thought you were through with this thread a couple pages ago? Edited June 28, 2008 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 (edited) Uh, trust me bro, we know a heck of a lot more about how government is supposed to work than some guy who thinks people shouldn't be allowed to bear arms for self protection at all times. Additionally, yes as a country we have our issues that we are trying to work out, and we will get them worked out, but seriously, spare us your pitty as if Canada has got it all together and America is falling apart. Were it not for America being what it is you guys up in the great white north would not enjoy anywhere near the quality of life you currently enjoy. Canada has done well in spite of its government, not because of it. PS, Pioneer makes a good point. I thought you were through with this thread a couple pages ago? First, I can post here if I want. I said I was done arguing, but there were points that needed to be addressed. I'm not even addressing the same thing anymore. When it comes to Canada, I don't really care what you think and I don't see what it had to do with the conversation. The US is quickly falling behind the rest of the world in so many ways. While the rest of the western world succeeds because of the government, the US does so in spite of it. If the same banking regulations were in place in the US as are in place in the EU and Canada, there would never have been these huge problems. There's a reason that they haven't carried over to other places with near the intensity. The US is in desperate need of a change. Your falling behind and it doesn't matter what you think, its the truth. Edited June 28, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 When it comes to Canada, I don't really care what you think When it comes to the United States, not only does it not matter what you think, but we don't care for your views either. Maybe, then, you should keep your thoughts to yourself when it comes to laws that only affect American citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 (edited) When it comes to the United States, not only does it not matter what you think, but we don't care for your views either. Maybe, then, you should keep your thoughts to yourself when it comes to laws that only affect American citizens. But they don't only affect US citizens, not when you share the longest undefended border with a country. Edited June 28, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 When it comes to Canada, I don't really care what you think When it comes to the United States of America, it really doesn't matter what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 The US affects the entire world and constantly interferes in our politics, at least they did until a short time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 But they don't only affect US citizens, not when you share the longest undefended border with a country. Don't know what to tell you. If you don't like your neighbors, move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 The US affects the entire world and constantly interferes in our politics, at least they did until a short time ago. OH bullcrap suv, nobody makes the Canadian government do anything they don't want to do. Don't even try that nonsense. I didn't hear you guys crying about it when American companies were coming up there putting a lot of Canadians to work by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFanForEver Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I'm not arguing this any further. People have a right to opinions, I just don't happen to share those of many Americans. I understand what your saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 (edited) OH bullcrap suv, nobody makes the Canadian government do anything they don't want to do. Don't even try that nonsense. I didn't hear you guys crying about it when American companies were coming up there putting a lot of Canadians to work by the way. Thats what free trade is about. It also gives Americans privileged access to Canadian Energy, and is why many American Companies own many Canadian companies and vice versa. I'm not really arguing about who is better, I'm saying that from what I hear all of you say, the many complaints that you have, from the statistics that shows the US average Joe is worse off, a change seems to be needed. Edited June 28, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 (edited) Don't look now, but Canada is moving to the right, and the US could be moving to the left if the Obama/Clinton circus gets off the ground. It could be Canada and Australia led by Great Britain and Europe picking up the torch dropped by the US in the Middle East. Toronto and the GTA aren't representative of Canada. In some rural areas, law is just a formality. People don't wear seatbelts, pay taxes, or worry about gun laws. They have roots going back farther than Confederation, and aren't too fond of attempts to Europeanize them. Politicians are corrupt and buy their seats with free bottles of booze. It doesn't much matter who gets in because they don't matter anyway. These people don't need government and have little or nothing to do with it. That is the Canada that I used to know and love. Edited June 28, 2008 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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