Edsel Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Right to Work legislation needs to be addressed before the UAW hopes to get any foothold in the transplants. Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveshaftgrunt Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 The public couldn't give a tired rats ass about whether something is made in the U.S. That's why, a few years from now, Toyota workers in the US are competing with Thai, Chinese and Mexican workers more than they compete with the Big 3/UAW, they're going to wonder what the hell happened.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGER66 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Today Toyota said that all employees would be paid for the down time. Tell me again why they need the uaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULJABOY Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Today Toyota said that all employees would be paid for the down time. Tell me again why they need the uaw How much will they be paid? If they are paid their full wages, then yes why would they need the UAW? If they are only paid unemployeement, then why would they need the UAW? Well the way I see it, they need the UAW more than we need them. All Toyota has done has brought down are standard of living, if you can't see that then my advice is for you to take the buyout and get the hell out of Ford's. Now do not get me wrong people, i think that the UAW sometimes looks the other way when it comes to the dues paying members. But I still would rather have them than not. Captain, I thought you of all people would defend the UAW. I am agast to you not doing that this time, What gives? Toyota pays their people about $10 to $15 dollars less an hour than what we get. That does not include the benefits. I also want to know how many people are at Toyota that are full time? Verses how many are part timer's. It is the UAW that has them making close to what we make at the cash level they are. Take that away and where will they be? Now getting back to my third question, if they only get unemployeement then why do they need the UAW? I will tell you why, SUBPAY!!!!!!!!!!! They do not get it. They are not protected should they get hurt. they can be fired without just cause. SHave we gotten so damn selfcentered that we forget what we have due to the UAW. If you do not agree, THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF THE UAW NOW!!!! Damn people quit being so damn stupid. think about what you got. Or do you want to eat fish heads and rice for the rest of your life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEagle Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 How much will they be paid? If they are paid their full wages, then yes why would they need the UAW? If they are only paid unemployeement, then why would they need the UAW? Well the way I see it, they need the UAW more than we need them. All Toyota has done has brought down are standard of living, if you can't see that then my advice is for you to take the buyout and get the hell out of Ford's. Now do not get me wrong people, i think that the UAW sometimes looks the other way when it comes to the dues paying members. But I still would rather have them than not. Captain, I thought you of all people would defend the UAW. I am agast to you not doing that this time, What gives? Toyota pays their people about $10 to $15 dollars less an hour than what we get. That does not include the benefits. I also want to know how many people are at Toyota that are full time? Verses how many are part timer's. It is the UAW that has them making close to what we make at the cash level they are. Take that away and where will they be? Now getting back to my third question, if they only get unemployeement then why do they need the UAW? I will tell you why, SUBPAY!!!!!!!!!!! They do not get it. They are not protected should they get hurt. they can be fired without just cause. SHave we gotten so damn selfcentered that we forget what we have due to the UAW. If you do not agree, THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF THE UAW NOW!!!! Damn people quit being so damn stupid. think about what you got. Or do you want to eat fish heads and rice for the rest of your life? Ok post...but the problem witht he UAW and some of it's leaders is that they could give a shit less about the autoworker anymore...these guys are too busy going after 50 people in a casino somewhere when they need to service the 600,000 they have. I can remember when the Presidents and especially the Vice Presidents would visit our plant..Now they all hide behind thier AA's and AD's. Too scared to face the membership. But not too scared to make decisions for all of us. There is a problem with that picture. The UAW is too worried about everyones elses causes to fight for thiers. Plus too many are too close to retirement age to give a shit about any of us anymore and the one beneth them are just looking for ways to promote themselves up the ladder. Our union needs an overhaul. I agree the UAW is a good organization. However, too many people there who did not deserve to be there and we all have to deal with thier horrible leadership. Good Ole Boy system still Alive and well with Butterfinger and his successor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 How much will they be paid? They will be paid their normal wages because they will be reporting to work as usual for training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULJABOY Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 .Now they all hide behind thier AA's and AD's.Too scared to face the membership. But not too scared to make decisions for all of us. There is a problem with that picture. I could not agree with you more on this issue. This is a picture that needs to be destroyed. but the problem witht he UAW and some of it's leaders is that they could give a shit less about the autoworker anymore...these guys are too busy going after 50 people in a casino somewhere when they need to service the 600,000 they have. We as a membership, needs to hold these officials accountable. We as members, need to replace these people, but we must first start at the bottom. Let's start with our own locals first. replace everyone their then work our way up to the International level. This will be a long and hard battle but are you willing to fight to get back to what is right for this Union? The UAW is too worried about everyones elses causes to fight for thiers. Plus too many are too close to retirement age to give a shit about any of us anymore and the one beneth them are just looking for ways to promote themselves up the ladder. Our union needs an overhaul. I agree the UAW is a good organization. However, too many people there who did not deserve to be there and we all have to deal with thier horrible leadership. Good Ole Boy system still Alive and well with Butterfinger and his successor. We need to sweep the dirt off our own doorsteps before we can worry about other house's. As for these individuals that are close to retiremnet to care about us, let us make it very clear that unless they take care of us first they will not get a retirement check from this union. The reason iss that they do not deserve it, fore they did not earn it due to the fact they didn't take care of the dues members, we must stand up for our rights now not tomorrow. What would Walter Ruether do if he was alive to see this disconcert among the membership? As for the good ole boy system, well I see it first hand here at the Local that our unbeloved president is from. In our last union election the only time our voting machines has had a problem is when it comes to the Committeemen elections. No one running was able to see the acutual resulst from the vote. They were only allowed to hear the final number, not the numbers from all the machines. Makes you wonder. I will say this, I still think I would rather work for a system that is broke, with the chance to fix it than not work for one at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGER66 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 How much will they be paid? If they are paid their full wages, then yes why would they need the UAW? If they are only paid unemployeement, then why would they need the UAW? Well the way I see it, they need the UAW more than we need them. All Toyota has done has brought down are standard of living, if you can't see that then my advice is for you to take the buyout and get the hell out of Ford's. Now do not get me wrong people, i think that the UAW sometimes looks the other way when it comes to the dues paying members. But I still would rather have them than not. Captain, I thought you of all people would defend the UAW. I am agast to you not doing that this time, What gives? Toyota pays their people about $10 to $15 dollars less an hour than what we get. That does not include the benefits. I also want to know how many people are at Toyota that are full time? Verses how many are part timer's. It is the UAW that has them making close to what we make at the cash level they are. Take that away and where will they be? Now getting back to my third question, if they only get unemployeement then why do they need the UAW? I will tell you why, SUBPAY!!!!!!!!!!! They do not get it. They are not protected should they get hurt. they can be fired without just cause. SHave we gotten so damn selfcentered that we forget what we have due to the UAW. If you do not agree, THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF THE UAW NOW!!!! Damn people quit being so damn stupid. think about what you got. Or do you want to eat fish heads and rice for the rest of your life? Where do you get your facts at SJB? The uaw? Toyota workers make atleast what we do and maybe more. Sure the new hires will make less but what will fords new-hires make if they ever hire again? Know-it-alls kill me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raws41900 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 The general public does not care if a auto is union made, only that it is U.S. made. The transplants need to be organized to bring them down to our level. No more no less. you're sadly mistaken, the general public could give two shits if its union made OR U.S. made.. the general public wants the cheapest car with the best mpg, anything they get on top of that feature wise is a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULJABOY Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Where do you get your facts at SJB? The uaw? Toyota workers make atleast what we do and maybe more. Sure the new hires will make less but what will fords new-hires make if they ever hire again? Know-it-alls kill me I base my information on what two guys I graduated high school with and one neighbor tell me. For you see, They all three work for Toyota. One works at the Princeton, IN plant and the other two work at the Georgetown, KY plant. Now I have no idea how many people you know who works at Toyota or how many Toyota plants are near you. The $10 to $15 dollar range is a fair assesment of what they tell me. Oh by-the-way, if know-it-all's kill you, then why aren't you dead? The world is full of know-it-alls. Then again , maybe you are a know-it-all and it upset's you when someone puts a damper on your knowledge of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) I saw a documentary about Ford Motor in China.The first thing you need to understand is that Americans are taught to hate each other.Ford`s head guy in China was saying that Ford`s plans in China were to satisfy the demands of the Chinese market first and then if there was any excess capacity Ford Motor would export vehicles made in China to the USA.That is a clever way of saying that Ford is chasing slave labor around the world.Ford now considers itself a GLOBAL Company.Ford no longer has national loyalty.Yes I think people will buy a Ford made in China.The key here is will the politicians allow this?Keeping in mind that ALL politicians bribe I would say the chances are excellent.This is the answer for all the wealthy corporate officers who want power over other people`s lives;Beat down the USA middle-class and make them afraid of poverty;constant war that drains tax dollars away from the U.S. infrastructure.Do not be fooled by divide and conquer strategies.Ford goes bankrupt in North America.Government steps in and bails out Ford of North America.Pensioneers are handed over to the Government and the taxpayers.They get maybe 25 cents on the dollar.Ford-Global manufactures vehicles offshore and exports them to the USA.It is all very possible because USA is a nation of hard-asses who hate each other.If I have a dollar bill AND {this is very important} you don`t,then I must be a better person than you.That is America.Slave to the $$$$$.I assume any attempt to legitimately unionize in China would be considered anarchy and punished severly by the Chinese Authorities. Edited July 12, 2008 by Fatso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGER66 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I think I hit a nerve SJB. My spouse works there and I actually see a pay stub. :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
182 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Last yesr was the first year Toyota workers made MORE than the UAW wage. Toyota workers, right now, do not need UAW representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULJABOY Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I think I hit a nerve SJB. My spouse works there and I actually see a pay stub. No nerve hit here. This goes to prove that you are not as bright as you want us to think you are. Why do you want to put all your eggs in one basket. The auto market is chaneing everyday. By you and your spouse working for both Ford and Toyota, means you will have twice as much to lose. that is if you do indeed work for Ford. Since you "see a pay stub" bright one, tell us what is her insurance code? How much will they make if they ever have to draw unemployeement? How long will they get SUBPAY? Do they have the ability to write a grievence when management screws them over? How much can they expect to recieve when they retire should they get that far? Will they be able to keep their health insurance after they retire? Is there someone to stand up for them when management decides to write them up for the hell of it? When they have a parts shortage will they be able to get short work week pay? How much of a insurance break did they recieve after the last no vote on the UAW? Last yesr was the first year Toyota workers made MORE than the UAW wage. Toyota workers, right now, do not need UAW representation. See above. When you add all the benefits that we get to our base salary we DO INDEED GET MORE. Like I said before and I will say it again, I MUCH RATHER HAVE A SCREWED UP SYSTEM REPRESENTING ME THAT NOT HAVEING ONE AT ALL. Then again if the people at Toyota are not bright enough to see this, then I think we do not need them after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEagle Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) I could not agree with you more on this issue. This is a picture that needs to be destroyed. We as a membership, needs to hold these officials accountable. We as members, need to replace these people, but we must first start at the bottom. Let's start with our own locals first. replace everyone their then work our way up to the International level. This will be a long and hard battle but are you willing to fight to get back to what is right for this Union? We need to sweep the dirt off our own doorsteps before we can worry about other house's. As for these individuals that are close to retiremnet to care about us, let us make it very clear that unless they take care of us first they will not get a retirement check from this union. The reason iss that they do not deserve it, fore they did not earn it due to the fact they didn't take care of the dues members, we must stand up for our rights now not tomorrow. What would Walter Ruether do if he was alive to see this disconcert among the membership? As for the good ole boy system, well I see it first hand here at the Local that our unbeloved president is from. In our last union election the only time our voting machines has had a problem is when it comes to the Committeemen elections. No one running was able to see the acutual resulst from the vote. They were only allowed to hear the final number, not the numbers from all the machines. Makes you wonder. I will say this, I still think I would rather work for a system that is broke, with the chance to fix it than not work for one at all. I agree, I see you understand what I am saying. However, The Locals as I see it are the people getting abused. If they had good support from the INT UAW with qualified people we would not be in this mess... Are you sure there is not another Shoemaker's kid that does not have a staff job after 365 days of work? Bob King appointed all three of Shoemakers kids. None of them earned a position at the INT UAW. These are the people that are going to lead us? Never were a Chairman or President? Do you know how many people like this Bob King has appointed? One girl got a job because she baby sat his kids. Butterfinger wants King as a President? Look for the IPS taking over GM and Chrysler. because they already have taken over the Ford Dept. Bob still does not understand what hat he is wearing. Does he represent us in Ford??? Or just the IPS? These two positions should be split up also...It is obvious he can not handle both of them, much less be the next President of the UAW. We need to tell our elected people who go to the convention to elect real leadership and not this phoney. IMO this guy is the anti big three worker guy...He needs to go with Buttefingers.. Edited July 12, 2008 by TheEagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapee Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 People that work for Tolietyoda ain't never going to get an union. Because, they have 3 types of people at Tolietyoda; dumb-asses, stupid-asses, and company-man suck-asses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Toyota workers, right now, do not need UAW representation. False. As of right now, Toyota hourly workers are being represented by the UAW. They just don't pay dues. Seriously. Do you honestly think they would have the compensation/benefits without the UAW? If not for the UAW, and them wanting to keep the organization out of their plants, they would be paying as small a wage as possible, with no benefits, and all workers affected by the plant shutdowns would be sitting at home waiting to be called back to work. American transplant workers may be of the mindset that they do not need the UAW, but the truth is, they need the UAW just as much as it's own members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULJABOY Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 People that work for Tolietyoda ain't never going to get an union. Because, they have 3 types of people at Tolietyoda; dumb-asses, stupid-asses, and company-man suck-asses. LOL I couldn't have said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULJABOY Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 False. As of right now, Toyota hourly workers are being represented by the UAW. They just don't pay dues. Seriously. Do you honestly think they would have the compensation/benefits without the UAW? If not for the UAW, and them wanting to keep the organization out of their plants, they would be paying as small a wage as possible, with no benefits, and all workers affected by the plant shutdowns would be sitting at home waiting to be called back to work. American transplant workers may be of the mindset that they do not need the UAW, but the truth is, they need the UAW just as much as it's own members. RIGHT ON !!!!! We need more people to understand why we do in fact need the UAW. Even if it is corrupt right now. We can change the corruption. We can make this union the best it ever was again. We just need to stand up to our International Union Reps and demand for them to do the right thing for the membership. Yes, we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 False. As of right now, Toyota hourly workers are being represented by the UAW. They just don't pay dues. Seriously. Do you honestly think they would have the compensation/benefits without the UAW? If not for the UAW, and them wanting to keep the organization out of their plants, they would be paying as small a wage as possible, with no benefits, and all workers affected by the plant shutdowns would be sitting at home waiting to be called back to work. American transplant workers may be of the mindset that they do not need the UAW, but the truth is, they need the UAW just as much as it's own members. Pioneer, That is a very true statement. Most of our brothers and sisters don't realize that when we try to organize these transplants.....that even when we fail it is because Toyota offers them more not to organize. We.....on the other hand also make out........because even if we do not get them in our Union, we level the playing field because they get an increase of wages or benefits offered to them to keep us out. So you are correct in the mutual relationship of the transplants, they make out because of the UAW repeatedly trying to organize them. In the past they have received several dollars per hour and other increases to stay out of the UAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEagle Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 (edited) Pioneer, That is a very true statement. Most of our brothers and sisters don't realize that when we try to organize these transplants.....that even when we fail it is because Toyota offers them more not to organize. We.....on the other hand also make out........because even if we do not get them in our Union, we level the playing field because they get an increase of wages or benefits offered to them to keep us out. So you are correct in the mutual relationship of the transplants, they make out because of the UAW repeatedly trying to organize them. In the past they have received several dollars per hour and other increases to stay out of the UAW. Level, Help me understand. I understand that's the way it used to be when we had great people who earned thier way to the top. The way it is today, we as big 3 auto workers have already TAKEN HUGE decreases to match or beat the transplants "All In" rates. That's how we get new work. You said it yourself on here several times. So actually, Toyota set the pattern because our leadership caved. Explain to everyone how the UAW did a great job at Big 3 Negotiations and sell it to the people who work at Toyota. It does not fly. People are smarter than that. I would have thought you would be also. Edited July 13, 2008 by TheEagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Bet they are rethinking this whole not wanting a union thing now! Keep dreaming. Neva gonna happen. But watch as we get smaller and smaller.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The way it is today, we as big 3 auto workers have already TAKEN HUGE decreases to match or beat the transplants "All In" rates. That's how we get new work. You said it yourself on here several times. So actually, Toyota set the pattern because our leadership caved. I wouldnt say Toyota set the pattern but as we have given HUGE concessions, watch for Toyoty to take more and more from their American workers. We set the pattern for future wages with the lower tier , and Toyota will look to get theirs also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEagle Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I wouldnt say Toyota set the pattern but as we have given HUGE concessions, watch for Toyoty to take more and more from their American workers. We set the pattern for future wages with the lower tier , and Toyota will look to get theirs also. I thought that we got our rates down to transplants for us to get new work? How's that B-car coming? Which is what Level has said as well as others on here. If that was true than Toyota did set the pattern. Because we were trying to reach them, not the other way around. Help me understand because either he was full of shit before or he is full of shit now. Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I thought that we got our rates down to transplants for us to get new work? How's that B-car coming?Which is what Level has said as well as others on here. If that was true than Toyota did set the pattern. Because we were trying to reach them, not the other way around. Help me understand because either he was full of shit before or he is full of shit now. Which is it? Well as I understand it, transplants permanent employee wages have been near ours for yrs. And they have been building a bigger temp force of late also.(But so has Ford). Now while we set the pattern for their high wages, (through the perceived threat of organizing), we have now set a much lower pattern in wages with the new employee rates. Toyota will look to exploit that. As far as getting NEW WORK, I will simply wait to see what Ford has in mind. Fiesta....not ours. Edge,MKX,Flex...nope.(oops sorry , they were planned long b-4 this contract). Ranger could go elsewhere. We will have to see how that turns out. If our costs are where Ford/UAW wanted them, then we should be able to build any vehicles in a flex plant. Just getting back from vacation, I will also need to read some more of these 40+ posts ............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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