Why McCain would be a mediocre president

[napfirst]

Obama's connection with Ayers:

 

Obama was named to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Project Board of Directors to oversee the distribution of grants in Chicago. Later in 1995, Ayers hosted "a coffee" for "Mr. Obama's first run for office."[42] The two served on the board of a community anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 2000 and 2002, during which time the board met twelve times.[42] In April 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate.[41] Since 2002, there has been little linking Obama and Ayers.[42] The senator said in September 2008 that he hadn't "seen him in a year-and-a-half."[43] In February 2008, Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement from the senator about the relationship between the two: "Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous."[41] CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the non-profit projects in which the two men were involved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ayers...ts_made_in_2001

 

 

Ayers has denied that he was properly quoted by the Times. In addition the article was written before 9/11 it was not written in reference to the evrnts of that day.

 

http://billayers.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/...imes-9-15-2001/

 

Far from being unrepentent, Ayers and Dohrn appologized to Richard Elrod the attorney who was injured and paralyzed during the Chicago Convention protest in 1968

 

Thus it was that in 2001, just before the September 11th attacks, Elrod accepted an invitation to dinner with two of the onetime leaders of Weatherman-Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. At a restaurant in downtown Chicago, Elrod and his wife listened as the two former radicals, now long married, with a family of their own, apologized for the heartache and suffering Elrod endured as a result of that day. The pair made it clear that they did not believe Flanagan caused Elrod's injuries, and that they were not disavowing their militant beliefs. Still, "they were remorseful," Elrod says. "They said, ‘We're sorry that things turned out this way.'" (Calls and e-mails seeking comment from Dohrn and Ayers were not returned.)

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine...amp;si=0#artanc

 

Now would you like to discuss McCain's continuing contacts with Charles Keating (who he really did pal around with) even after he was censured by the Senate Ethics committee. Keating BTW cost the tax payers over 2 Billion in his fraud of Lincoln Savings. http://washingtonindependent.com/11806/cindy

 

How about his connections with anti-Cubam terrorists who did commit bombings on U. S. soil that resulted in deaths.

 

Lesnik and other observers point, for example, to McCain and his supporter's affiliations with long-time anti-Castro activists like Roberto Martin Perez. Perez, a member of numerous Cuban exile groups who appears in a recent McCain campaign ad, is one of the chief sponsors of a campaign to free Eduardo Arocena, the Cuban exile leader of the alleged terrorist group, Omega 7. Arocena was convicted on 25 counts and is serving a mandatory life sentence for his role in several terrorist incidents including 32 bombings and 2 politically-motivated murders. In his summary of the Omega 7 case, New York Appeals Court Judge Lombard declared, "From 1975 to 1982, Omega 7 conducted a series of bombings in the New York metropolitan area that injured bystanders and damaged homes, businesses, and a church. The bombsites included Avery Fisher Hall, Madison Square Garden, JFK Airport, the ticket office of Aeroflot (the Soviet airline), and the Cuban Mission to the United Nations." Arocena supporter Perez was recently seen hugging the GOP presidential candidate at a recent campaign event. In addition to Perez, supporters of Arocena, whose victims include Eulalio José Negrin, a New Jersey man who died in his 13 year-old son's arms, include one of John McCain's closest allies, Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman. As recently as last July, Lieberman promised Arocena's wife that "I will carry it back. I will carry it back. Yeah. I feel...I think of you like you were my family."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ddress=405x8785

 

Should we have some answers about Sarah Palin's connections with the Alaska Independence Party whose 1994 convention she attended and in which her husband was a member. Palin also addressed the AIP convention in 2006. AIP founder was a self- described anti-American successionist. The Party's platform calls for Alaska to leave the U.S. http://web.archive.org/web/20080116105845/...troduction.html

 

The Alaskan Independence Party quotes Vogler as stating "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Independence_Party

 

After 6 weeks what do we really know about Sarah Palin? She has given 2 interviews and one love fest with Hannity. Still no appearance on Meet the Press, Face the Nation or This Week. All of these shows are done live so there is no false claim about editing. Obama has appeared as have Biden and McCain. Why can't Palin?

How many police stations did Keating bomb?....How many judge's homes did he bomb?...How many times did he bomb the Pentagon?...How many times did you hear him say "God damn America"?.....

[RangerM]

How many police stations did Keating bomb?....How many judge's homes did he bomb?...How many times did he bomb the Pentagon?...How many times did you hear him say "God damn America"?.....

 

Keating 5 Prosecutor Bob Bennett, self-acknowledged Democrat, spoke with attorney Mark Levin about the investigation on Levin’s radio show Monday, October 6.

 

I’ll stick to the public record. What my role was - I was hired by a bi-partisan Senate Ethics Committee to investigate what was known as “The Keating 5″. And in essence, what it was, was that there was something called the Direct Investment Rule which Charles Keating was opposed to. What it did was it basically said that Savings and Loans, which he owned one, couldn’t, were limited in where they could invest their money. Senator DiConcini scheduled a meeting with several Senators to meet with the head of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board and pressure them.

 

And, Senator McCain attended that meeting. And one thing led to another and the Ethics Committee conducted an investigation. And I investigated it for a long, long time, well over a year. For the purpose of determining whether or not the Senators, including McCain, violated any standards, rules, ethical prohibitions. And at the end of the investigation, I concluded that Senator McCain and Senator Glenn should be exonerated, that is, that there should be no further action against them, but that was rejected by the Committee and there were some twenty-six days of public hearings.

 

As you know, Mark, ’cause on the occasions we’ve met, I- we argued some. I’m a Democrat, as you know. But, I had to call it the way the evidence dictated, and I called it that John McCain did nothing wrong. How Heflin, who at the time, was the Chairman of the Committee, was very concerned that there be twenty-six days of hearings with only Democrats in “the docks”, so to speak, so my recommendation about exonerating Senators Glenn and McCain was rejected and we went forward. But… it’s….and at the end of the day, it was pretty clear, from all the evidence, that there was no violation by Senator McCain.

 

I’m sorry to be so long but that’s in a nutshell, what happened.

Edited October 11, 2008 by RangerM

[retro-man]

You just have low expections for the POTUS......so therefore you are able to overlook these issues..... I can't...I want someone that can be trusted to tell the truth

 

Let me guess, Bush has lived up to your "high expectations", right? :hysterical:

Edited October 11, 2008 by retro-man

[Len_A]

Need some cheese?

Is that the best you got? Pathetic, like your phony character issues.

[napfirst]

Let me guess, Bush has lived up to your "high expectations", right? :hysterical:

Bush is not running

[napfirst]

Is that the best you got? Pathetic, like your phony character issues.

Phony?...don't you wish?

[Len_A]

Phony?...don't you wish?

That's why it's turning things around in the polls - not.

[Mark B. Morrow]

How many police stations did Keating bomb?....How many judge's homes did he bomb?...How many times did he bomb the Pentagon?...How many times did you hear him say "God damn America"?.....

 

 

How many Billions did Ayers steal from the U.S. taxpayer?

 

I noticed you ignored the terrorist connections of John McCain and Palin's AIP connections. Would McCain pardon these terrorists? How about his service on the board of directors of John Singlaub's U.S. Council for World Freedom organization that included neo-nazis and supported right wing death squads in Central America.

 

 

If you want to bring Wright in to the mix, we have Palin sitting in her church while the head of Jews for Jesus (Vegetarians for Veal?) gave a speech blaming the victims of terrorists in Israel for their own deaths because they didn't accept Jesus. He didn't say why the christian victims died. No condemnation from Palin.

 

Again, since Palin won't give interviews, no one can ask her to answer what she believes. She is the ultimate stealth candidate.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Mark B. Morrow

[Mark B. Morrow]

I'll remind you one more time....those people that you keep mentioning from the past...NONE OF THEM ARE CURRENTLY RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, obama IS!...that's the difference.....and please stop whinning about a job.

 

Funny, last time I checked, Ayers and Wright weren't running for anything.

[napfirst]

Funny, last time I checked, Ayers and Wright weren't running for anything.

but they are close friends with obama...who is....I thought you were a lawyer...this can't be that hard for you!

[Mark B. Morrow]

but they are close friends with obama...who is....I thought you were a lawyer...this can't be that hard for you!

 

 

So you know them personally? You have seen Ayers and Obama together and know they are friends. Of course not. You "Know" this because you heard it from Hannity who "Knows" it because someone told him they served on two boards together. BTW there were several Republicans on those Boards so I guess they must be close friends with Ayers too. In the law we call your statement hearsay and inadmissable as evidence.

 

I sit on two Boards and I couldn't tell you much about most of the members eventhough I see them for several hours a year. I don't know what they do much less what they did 15-25 years ago. Most of them know that I'm a lawyer and that's about it.

 

Ayers hosted a "Coffee" meeting for Obama in 1995 at the request of the then sitting State Senator. He contributed $200.00 to his campaign. That isn't really that friendly.

 

Obama was very close to Wright and he has repudiated Wright's statements and distanced himself from him. Conversely, McCain stayed friends with Keating after the scandal and Cindy continued to invest in his business.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Mark B. Morrow

[napfirst]

So you know them personally? You have seen Ayers and Obama together and know they are friends. Of course not. You "Know" this because you heard it from Hannity who "Knows" it because someone told him they served on two boards together. BTW there were several Republicans on those Boards so I guess they must be close friends with Ayers too. In the law we call your statement hearsay and inadmissable as evidence.

 

I sit on two Boards and I couldn't tell you much about most of the members eventhough I see them for several hours a year. I don't know what they do much less what they did 15-25 years ago. Most of them know that I'm a lawyer and that's about it.

 

Ayers hosted a "Coffee" meeting for Obama in 1995 at the request of the then sitting State Senator. He contributed $200.00 to his campaign. That isn't really that friendly.

 

Obama was very close to Wright and he has repudiated Wright's statements and distanced himself from him. Conversely, McCain stayed friends with Keating after the scandal and Cindy continued to invest in his business.

Nice try......all you are telling me is you don't have very high standards for the people you associate with....like obama.....but most of the people in America have higher standards for a person who wants to be POTUS....althought I do listen to Hannity once in awhile, I also heard Anderson Cooper talking negatively about the association this week...hardly a conservative......and yeah he has tried to dis-associate himself from the rev. wright....but it was after the fact...never has answered why he sat in the hate-filled church for 20 years.....

[99ktpbirdman]

And I'm going to go back to asking "Who hired Bill Ayers to begin with?" "Who put this know 1960's radical into the middle of a charitable foundation to bing with?" Who: William Annenberg, the wealthy Republican, former Nixon Administration Ambassador to Great Britian. Same William Annenberg who, as one of Ronald Reagan's best friends, made the introductions between President Reagan and then British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Same William Annenberg who didn't fire Bill Ayers after he made those statements after 9-11. Annenberge didn't pass away until a bit more than year after 9-11, dieing from complications from pneumonia in October, 2002. Did he can Ayers' ass after those post 9-11 statements? Nope.

 

Not only that, but The Woods Fund you're harping about - it gave $50,000 to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge in 1999. That's right sports fans - same Chicago Annenberg Challenge that was founded by the same wealthy Republican that hired both Ayers and Obama in the first place - William Annenberg.

 

And what does this have to do with anything today? Nothing. More noise from the political right because their candidate has fallen behind in the polls. So they start slinging mud. What's it resulting in? One of McCain's Michigan Republican backers publicly withdrawing their endorsement of McCain and a former Republican Senator endorsing Obama. Link Here

Annenberg didn't hire Ayers they donated money nationwide and local groups that got that money inturn hired Obama and gave grants to Bill Ayers for his ideas. So squirm you little socialist liberal and go find you a communist rally.

[napfirst]

How many Billions did Ayers steal from the U.S. taxpayer?

 

I noticed you ignored the terrorist connections of John McCain and Palin's AIP connections. Would McCain pardon these terrorists? How about his service on the board of directors of John Singlaub's U.S. Council for World Freedom organization that included neo-nazis and supported right wing death squads in Central America.

 

 

If you want to bring Wright in to the mix, we have Palin sitting in her church while the head of Jews for Jesus (Vegetarians for Veal?) gave a speech blaming the victims of terrorists in Israel for their own deaths because they didn't accept Jesus. He didn't say why the christian victims died. No condemnation from Palin.

 

Again, since Palin won't give interviews, no one can ask her to answer what she believes. She is the ultimate stealth candidate.

if you want to talk about stealing from the taxpayers....don't forget franlklin raines...you know obama's economic advisor...you remember don't you?....yeah the guy that took a $90 million....yeah that's 6 zeros, salary in 6 years and helped to drive Fannie Mae into the ground....and his partner in crime there was jim johnson, yeah that's right the one and the same that was on obama's VP search committee, why don't you google them and come back explain how smart obama is one more time....like I said earlier, you have low expectations.

[Len_A]

Annenberg didn't hire Ayers they donated money nationwide and local groups that got that money inturn hired Obama and gave grants to Bill Ayers for his ideas. So squirm you little socialist liberal and go find you a communist rally.

Oh right, and Annenberg & the Annenberg Foundation had no say in who got hired for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Yea right..not.

 

Go ahead and call me a socialist liberal if that makes you feel better. I'd tell you what kind of rally is calling your name, but I'm not going to get into race baiting. You better pray like hell that McBush/Failin turn things around, because at this point in the race, it can't be good when McBush's own supporters start booing him at his own rallies.

[retro-man]

Bush is not running

No - thank God he's not. Although we've now reached the point where even Bush couldn't be any worse than Bush. But I'm just pointing out that your selective cognition is just as extreme as the most partisan liberal on here. Or to put it another way - no matter how much evidence of malfeasance and corruption is presented to you, you will somehow find evidence to validate your preconceptions.

[napfirst]

No - thank God he's not. Although we've now reached the point where even Bush couldn't be any worse than Bush. But I'm just pointing out that your selective cognition is just as extreme as the most partisan liberal on here. Or to put it another way - no matter how much evidence of malfeasance and corruption is presented to you, you will somehow find evidence to validate your preconceptions.

I don't have to look hard to find it either.....you chose to ignore it....like the others, you have very low expectations for the POTUS.

[retro-man]

Ok. My deal is this: Supply side economics is dead. The politics of diversion - running up red-herring social issues in the face of economic and political malfeasance and corruption - is dead.

 

I like McCain. I respect him for standing up (at times - until he started the double-speak trying to "capture the base") for what he believed to be right. I think he's a decent and honorable man. But his belief in supply-side economics in face of the overwhelming evidence of its failure, his sudden about-face (and yours) on the issue of government oversight of the financial sector, his continued insistence that going into Iraq was the right thing to do - rather than an Oedipal attempt by Bush to out-cojone his father backed by a bunch of neo-con kooks, his "you're on your own" health plan - all those things are wrong. I'm going with the guy who has the right policies, ok? I don't give a rat's ass about Ayers. (Or about Keating - and I don't even care much about Palin's brother-in-law).

 

I agree that both sides played into the growth of the paper economy that is now being "de-leveraged". But I also know which side was most vociferously on the side of de-regulation, and which side on this board was most vociferous in defense of the "winner take all" mentality that caused the greatest degree of economic inequality since immediately before - nb - the 1929 market crash and the ensuing Great Depression. The Democrats sins were mostly of omission - of not standing up (and I hold them responsible for that - it's certainly one of the reasons the nomination slipped away from Hillary) - not of commission.

 

The world has moved on. You had your trickle-down, supply-side, anti-regulatory, privatize everything, laissez faire free-for-all with, can we admit this - very little resistance from a beaten-down Democratic party. And now here we are. It's somebody else's turn now. You are irrelevant. Deal with it.

 

 

 

As a side note: I heard something on the radio the other day that chilled me. They were talking about strategies to free up the market, and it was mentioned that if one government implemented an interest rate reduction and others didn't it wouldn't work, because "capital would flee to the better market" - so any efforts need to be coordinated on a global scale. I have perceived (to my horror) that we are witnessing a massive wave of consolidation in the financial sector. I'm sure many conservatives have perceived (to their horror) that we are witnessing the socialization of large sectors of the financial system. But more sinister than either of these is that we are witnessing advancement of globalized central control of the world's financial system. I have long argued that Conservative attacks on the UN as a threat to sovereignty are misdirected, and that they should rather be concerned about organs such as the WTO and the IMF, which wield real economic clout. The UN is the "humanities" department - pleasant, but not all that relevant. Most nations - including the U.S., regularly thumb their noses at the UN. But the global financial organs have the world by the balls - and what we are about to undergo is only going to tighten that grip.

Edited October 12, 2008 by retro-man

[Mark B. Morrow]

if you want to talk about stealing from the taxpayers....don't forget franlklin raines...you know obama's economic advisor...you remember don't you?....yeah the guy that took a $90 million....yeah that's 6 zeros, salary in 6 years and helped to drive Fannie Mae into the ground....and his partner in crime there was jim johnson, yeah that's right the one and the same that was on obama's VP search committee, why don't you google them and come back explain how smart obama is one more time....like I said earlier, you have low expectations.

 

 

Raines isn't an Obama advisor. He never has been. Another Hannity lie. Raines had a phone call with some campaign staffer. He has not met with Obama. Raines has denied that he has ever been a part of the campaign and so has Obama.

 

McCain's Chief economic advisor and creator of his plan was Phil Gramm, a lobbyist for UBS and the driving force behind the deregulation of the banking industry which brought on the current crisis. Gramm's wife was an Enron lobbyist before the fall. Gramm was forced to leave the campaign a couple of months ago when he denied there was anything wrong with the economy and called Americans a bunch of whiners. He has still been mentioned as a probable McCain pick for Treasury Secretary.

 

The company McCain keeps is filled with lobbyists including his campaign chief Rick Davis who continued to receive money from Fannie Mae on a retainer contract he negotiated after joining McCain. 8 of McCains top campaign staffers are lobbyists on leave from their firms.

[napfirst]

Raines isn't an Obama advisor. He never has been. Another Hannity lie. Raines had a phone call with some campaign staffer. He has not met with Obama. Raines has denied that he has ever been a part of the campaign and so has Obama.

 

McCain's Chief economic advisor and creator of his plan was Phil Gramm, a lobbyist for UBS and the driving force behind the deregulation of the banking industry which brought on the current crisis. Gramm's wife was an Enron lobbyist before the fall. Gramm was forced to leave the campaign a couple of months ago when he denied there was anything wrong with the economy and called Americans a bunch of whiners. He has still been mentioned as a probable McCain pick for Treasury Secretary.

 

The company McCain keeps is filled with lobbyists including his campaign chief Rick Davis who continued to receive money from Fannie Mae on a retainer contract he negotiated after joining McCain. 8 of McCains top campaign staffers are lobbyists on leave from their firms.

I guess this first person article is a lie

[Mark B. Morrow]

I guess this first person article is a lie

 

 

You' re Kidding me. Jack Kelly is nearly as bad as Hannity. The Post article has been denied by both Raines and Obama.

 

To quote the passage at issue

 

He said that he had gotten a couple of calls from the Obama campaign. I asked him about what, and he said, Oh, general housing, economy issues.'" No contact with Obama just someone from the campaign. I don't know what your standard is for being an advisor but this doesn't seem to be someone I would call a campaign advisor.

 

BTW

 

Obama - Ayers from a truly unbiased source. They say McCain's ads and attacks are untruthful.

 

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he...bill_ayers.html

Edited October 12, 2008 by Mark B. Morrow

[napfirst]

You' re Kidding me. Jack Kelly is nearly as bad as Hannity. The Post article has been denied by both Raines and Obama.

 

To quote the passage at issue

 

He said that he had gotten a couple of calls from the Obama campaign. I asked him about what, and he said, Oh, general housing, economy issues.'" No contact with Obama just someone from the campaign. I don't know what your standard is for being an advisor but this doesn't seem to be someone I would call a campaign advisor.

 

BTW

 

Obama - Ayers from a truly unbiased source. They say McCain's ads and attacks are untruthful.

 

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he...bill_ayers.html

You're only getting worse....factcheck is owned by Annenberg...yeah the Chicago Annenbergs...

[Len_A]

You're only getting worse....factcheck is owned by Annenberg...yeah the Chicago Annenbergs...

Who are Republicans, Buckwheat. Prominent, wealthy Republicans.

[Mark B. Morrow]

You're only getting worse....factcheck is owned by Annenberg...yeah the Chicago Annenbergs...

 

 

Did you even read the link?

 

(FactCheck.org, which is nonpartisan, also receives funding from the Annenberg Foundation. But we are in no way connected to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which finished its work long before we came into being in late 2003.)

 

McCain says in an Internet ad that the two "ran a radical 'education' foundation" in Chicago. But the supposedly "radical" group was supported by a Republican governor and included on its board prominent local civic leaders, including one former Nixon administration official who has given $1,500 to McCain's campaign this year. Education Week says the group's work "reflected mainstream thinking" among school reformers. The group was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, started by a $49 million grant from the Annenberg Foundation, which was established by the publisher Walter Annenberg, a prominent Republican whose widow, Leonore, is a contributor to the McCain campaign.

 

Don't like Factcheck? Try this one.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/790/

Edited October 12, 2008 by Mark B. Morrow

[napfirst]

Did you even read the link?

 

(FactCheck.org, which is nonpartisan, also receives funding from the Annenberg Foundation. But we are in no way connected to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which finished its work long before we came into being in late 2003.)

 

McCain says in an Internet ad that the two "ran a radical 'education' foundation" in Chicago. But the supposedly "radical" group was supported by a Republican governor and included on its board prominent local civic leaders, including one former Nixon administration official who has given $1,500 to McCain's campaign this year. Education Week says the group's work "reflected mainstream thinking" among school reformers. The group was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, started by a $49 million grant from the Annenberg Foundation, which was established by the publisher Walter Annenberg, a prominent Republican whose widow, Leonore, is a contributor to the McCain campaign.

 

Don't like Factcheck? Try this one.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/790/

you are referring to an ad by McCain......which states that ayers was on the board.....I don't know if that is true...my point is that they worked together...knew each other....so tell me why obama would even associate with someone with such a radical background...I'll give you 2 reasons: 1. obama has no problem with that type of radicalism, because he is a FAR LEFT guy and 2. (and I've heard this several times) how could you expect him to know the backgrounds of everyone on the board?...to that I say BS., he knew and if he didn't then he's too stupid to be POTUS...how could he not know.....