vichybrid Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I was told that it would be ready to leave via train no later than Sept 12, possibly earlier. Yahoooooo... I should get it before the 24th I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckmanm Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I ordered mine in early June. As of last week, my dealer still didn't have a VIN, or any estimate when he might get one. :missing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stock Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I ordered mine in early June. As of last week, my dealer still didn't have a VIN, or any estimate when he might get one. :missing: I feel your pain, buddy. Same exact situation .. . June order and everything. My sales guy has been 'waiting for a call from the ford sales rep' for about a week now... a call just to see if I might get it in the schedule this month. (I was under the impression that when they cashed my deposit check the order had been submitted to the sales rep, but apparently not). I didn't care too much about the delays (so long as I could get it this year), but with Californians ordering one week, a week later having a VIN, and a month later they're cruising around in their new wheels, I can't help but feel cheated and frustrated. We've all heard a lot of discussion already about all of this, and I understand wanting to reward your high volume and well-performing dealers and markets with automobiles you know they'll sell, but that only makes sense to me as far as Stock orders from dealers are concerned. Why do many of us have to PUSH to get it in 6 months while Californians, and a few other locales, get theirs as quick as if it were any other car? I mean ... I bought the car ... its not like there's a lack of demand for it ... I put a desposit down ... its sold! Can I please have it in a timely fashion ... I'll even take 3 months, or 4 months! There are about a dozen gas models on the lot at my dealership ... I mean, they're already shipping stuff up here. Why not build my FEH while you're at it, and put it on the train with the gas 09's? Think about it - if you can't get it before December, the tax credit goes down to $1500 in January from $3000. It's already going to take 5 years to pay off (@ 12k mi a year and $3.50 gas) the difference compared to the gas model with the same trim as it is. That difference of $1500 is another year in gas. And now there's a few posts about the 09 Nav system being pretty buggy, and some having heat issues. I ordered that too, and it's a pricey option ... too pricey to not work ... again making me think about the $$$ vs Benefit. The 'Value' of the purchase isn't looking as good come January. I'd love to know how many people are experiencing the same situation ... waiting for a VIN and feeling left out in the cold ... those of us whose trucks aren't 'Arriving Soon' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsGadget Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I didn't care too much about the delays (so long as I could get it this year), but with Californians ordering one week, a week later having a VIN, and a month later they're cruising around in their new wheels, I can't help but feel cheated and frustrated. Totally agree with you guys. I think this process of rewarding certain dealerships at the expense of the end customer is asinine, and the apologists for the dealerships who try to explain don't seem to understand the overall picture. But I won't get into the politics of it, because after all what can a few of us angry consumers actually do? The vast majority of Ford customers don't have to deal with this, so I don't imagine they have any real incentive to fix this stupid situation. That being said, it is possible to get your FEH a lot sooner. Just do what I did: get your FEH from another dealer. If you gave a deposit to your current dealer, try to get it back. Then use cars.com and autotrader.com, together with the Ford website, to check dealer inventories all around the country. I found around 500 listings, but the lists aren't well updated, so you will definitely want to check the Ford website and call the dealer personally to check on the actual inventory. After a few hours of research yesterday, I found an FEH I liked at a dealer in the DC area. It's either that or wait. I hate it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stock Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 That being said, it is possible to get your FEH a lot sooner. Just do what I did: get your FEH from another dealer. If you gave a deposit to your current dealer, try to get it back. Then use cars.com and autotrader.com, together with the Ford website, to check dealer inventories all around the country. I decided to give this a try and called the 3 places within 150 miles of south western PA that say they have 09 hybrids on the lot ... - Dealership #1 ... base 4x4 (not the limited) ... $31,000 sticker ... asking $33,000 (not worth the drive and $$ benefit of getting it now ... plus no nav and I'm looking for FWD) - Dealership #2 ... 4x4 Limited, no nav ... $32,580 (actually a good deal ... but looking for FWD w/ Nav ... I might do w/o though) - Dealership #3 ... web said 2 '09s ... they actually have none (but 2 '08s w/ 30k miles asking $30,000) One guy said no dealerships can get them for the rest of the year. My 'agreed upon' price, for which I put my down deposit, was $33,725 for the FWD Limited w/ Navigation. That's certainly a good deal considering the markups out there, and I'm truly getting what I want. So, might just be worth waiting and taking the lower tax incentive ... ... assuming, of course, that my dealership can actually get the car they cashed my deposit for 3 months ago when the order was never actually made ... Yoi, and double yoi ... Oh well ... Worst case is this all falls through and I deal with my car for another year until the 2010's come out and scope out the scene then. It's a model worth waiting for ... 5 star crash ratings, SUV w great gas mileage, good looks, hi-tech ... Maybe the price will stabilize too when there's more makes and models out there. Right now, it's akin to trying to get a Wii or PS3 the past couple years at Christmas, or getting an iPhone when it first came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsGadget Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I decided to give this a try and called the 3 places within 150 miles of south western PA that say they have 09 hybrids on the lot ... I guess you don't want to go far away from home? I guarantee you could find the exact vehicle you want, somewhere out there. It just may require some transport. I'm flying up to DC from Florida tomorrow to drive mine back, but I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to do all your business over the phone and then have it delivered to your town via truck. One of the dealerships I talked to mentioned they could do this (a Califorina dealer actually). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stock Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I guess you don't want to go far away from home? I guarantee you could find the exact vehicle you want, somewhere out there. It just may require some transport. I'm flying up to DC from Florida tomorrow to drive mine back, but I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to do all your business over the phone and then have it delivered to your town via truck. One of the dealerships I talked to mentioned they could do this (a Califorina dealer actually). Yeah, the thought of flying somewhere, airfare $$, possibly having to arrange overnight accomodations if the drive is too long back, cab fare from the airport to whatever dealership, etc just isn't my speed. I wanted to keep it within a few hour drive to be able to do the whole thing in a day. It didn't even cross my mind that a dealership would ship a car cross country. If they did, I would think that would cost a little something extra too. (you can hear the grinding of my penny pinching from here, huh?) But I actually decided today to go with option number #2 above today. It doesn't have the Nav and is 4WD instead of 2WD, but it is a Limited and the right color. That'll do - 4WD is prob best for resale up here in often snowy PA. And the Nav thing is extremely cool, but not a 'must.' I'll get a garmin or tomtom if I need one. So, no more games w/ the dealer, no more wondering. The the price was actually $500 less than the sticker (which doesn't have the $1000 mandatory markup that happened Aug 1st). I put money down on it to hold it for Saturday, and they say they'll have it all shined up and ready to roll! Your response the other day pushed me a really think about this option a bit more. And here I am ... picking up my truck on Saturday. Awwww yeaaaahhh. Just got to get my deposit from Dealer A back. For anyone else reading, awaiting a VIN, take it from 2 of us ... look around. The way things are looking with the whole Hybrid situation is that if you don't have a VIN yet, and you're not living in Cali, you won't see your car anytime soon ... probably looking into the early months of '09. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Yeah, the thought of flying somewhere, airfare $$, possibly having to arrange overnight accomodations if the drive is too long back, cab fare from the airport to whatever dealership, etc just isn't my speed. I wanted to keep it within a few hour drive to be able to do the whole thing in a day. It didn't even cross my mind that a dealership would ship a car cross country. If they did, I would think that would cost a little something extra too. (you can hear the grinding of my penny pinching from here, huh?) But I actually decided today to go with option number #2 above today. It doesn't have the Nav and is 4WD instead of 2WD, but it is a Limited and the right color. That'll do - 4WD is prob best for resale up here in often snowy PA. And the Nav thing is extremely cool, but not a 'must.' I'll get a garmin or tomtom if I need one. So, no more games w/ the dealer, no more wondering. The the price was actually $500 less than the sticker (which doesn't have the $1000 mandatory markup that happened Aug 1st). I put money down on it to hold it for Saturday, and they say they'll have it all shined up and ready to roll! Your response the other day pushed me a really think about this option a bit more. And here I am ... picking up my truck on Saturday. Awwww yeaaaahhh. Just got to get my deposit from Dealer A back. For anyone else reading, awaiting a VIN, take it from 2 of us ... look around. The way things are looking with the whole Hybrid situation is that if you don't have a VIN yet, and you're not living in Cali, you won't see your car anytime soon ... probably looking into the early months of '09. My research indicates that Dealer 'A' will agree to prep and deliver a vehicle purchased from Dealer 'B' for a fee the two dealers negotiate and pass on to the consumer. One dealer wanted $250 while another wanted $500. Other than than the extra fee, the vehicle has to be at a point in the production process that lends itself to this sort of "redirection" from KCAP (I presume) to the alternate dealer's location instead of where it was originally purchased from. It didn't turn out to be a feasible option for me, but I thought I'd pass along my research findings in case it might help somebody else out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09feh Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I guess you don't want to go far away from home? I guarantee you could find the exact vehicle you want, somewhere out there. It just may require some transport. I'm flying up to DC from Florida tomorrow to drive mine back, but I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to do all your business over the phone and then have it delivered to your town via truck. One of the dealerships I talked to mentioned they could do this (a Califorina dealer actually). Ins, Ok, Where are you picking up that FEHL from?? Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsGadget Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Ins, Ok, Where are you picking up that FEHL from?? Sean Ourisman Ford Lincoln Mercury in Alexandria, VA. They ordered an insane number of FEHs in May and June (something like 20) and I bought their last one. Drove it back through the mountains of Virginia and Carolina, very nice, decent gas mileage in the hills. Once I hit the interstates and got into a hurry my mileage stayed in the mid 20s. Oh well, atleast it's a lot better than the '01 Highlander I was driving. And paying about $55 for a full tank of gas is nice again. Overall, I love this vehicle. To me, this is the first hybrid I've really gotten interested in, simply because it fits so many of my needs. The Nav system is quite amazing, and the 4wd capability is not bad at all (did some quick mountain trail driving, and felt in control the whole time). Thanks to everyone on these various forums, especially Gary, for pointing me and others in this direction. Gary, you should seriously ask for a commision from Ford, I'm sure you've personally sold close to a dozen people on the FEH. I did a Google search about four months ago for "ford escape hybrid forums", and now I'm the proud owner of an '09, largely thanks to your well-informed posts on the various FEH sites. The only bad taste in my mouth is that I could not buy my FEH from the dealer I picked. They gave me a great price, and were a straight-up and nice bunch of guys, but unfortunately we were all victims of the "allocation games". I really wish FoMoCo and the dealers would go back to the drawing boards on this whole allocation process. Customers should be allowed to buy their vehicles from a dealer of their choice without BS, but I'm very cynical that a change will ever come. I really don't want to hear WHY things are this way. This is an example of serving selfish needs at the expense of the greater good, and no matter how you sugarcoat it, it still stinks. So wake up Ford and fix this! Or, I guess, don't ... Question: I've noticed that hitting the button on the gear shifter allows you to half-shift one setting above. In other words, if you are in D and click the button, it will allow you to slide the shifter forward towards N, but not click all the way into N. It's half-way between D and N, still in the D area, but acts like it's in N. This also works going down into L. You can slide the shifter towards D without clicking all the way into D, but it acts like it's in D mode. This allows you to "shift" from L to D and back again quickly and easily. I'm wondering if this is a "feature" or a bug? Either way, it's great for mountain driving; I was able to quickly and easily go from L to D and vice versa, without having to click and shift each time. I do wonder if maybe this isn't good for the powertrain. Anyone else notice this "feature"? All around, I'm glad I did the research and purchased the '09 FEHL AWD. Even though I drive a large amount of miles each year, I'm hoping to keep this thing in good shape for atleast 5-7 years, hopefully just enough time for me to slide into a brand-new '15 Ford Escape PHEV. I'm sure my decision will come after reading Gary's posts again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stock Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 This past weekend I picked up the #2 FEH option listed in one of my earlier posts. I thought I'd give my 2 cents on the experience over the past few days. First of all, you all need to hear the story of how I ended up with this vehicle. After getting word from my salesman that the FEH I ordered 'is supposed to be built come November or December', but that he didn't have anything in writing, no guarantee, and still no VIN, I decided it was time to start working other options since the FEH tax credit will likely be halved come January. My salesman said if I found something else, I could let him know, and they could work out an exchange or something with whatever dealer had it. I took him up on that offer and I told him about Option 2 above ... a 4WD FEH w/o Nav about 3 hours away. I gave him the all of the info and he said him and the sales manager would give the place a call. So I get a call back from him later in the day that 'that car was sold yesterday and driven off the lot last night.' I just didn't believe him, so I called the other dealer ... and sure enough ... Option 2 was still there ... unsold. So I worked out a sale over the phone, got my financing together through my credit union, put a deposit down with my credit card, and picked up the car on Saturday. Yesterday I called my dealer and canceled my order and picked up a check refunding my deposit. I just told my dealer I couldn't give a reason, it was personal, to avoid any confrontation and any problem getting my deposit back. I'm sure he'd of come up with some song and dance or excuse covering up his lie about the other vehicle not being available. Crazy. I can't (... but yet can) believe that my salesman flat out lied about the other car! Or the other dealership lied, but I don't see the advantage to them if they did. They could just say no to any trade. Now, just to sell my Wrangler ... That's long, so I'll start another post about the FEH experience so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specelec Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 This is the same situation that I had occur to me when I bought my wife's vehicle. Had a salesman supposedly looking for an in stock vehicle configured with the options that I wanted. Long story short: I found the perfect vehicle at a dealership 2 hours away and emailed the info to my salesman. He called me back and said it was already sold, and that he could get me a larger discount on a vehicle that they had on the lot (sounds fishy huh?). So since I felt like I was being given the run around, I called the other dealership and sure enough, it was still available. I buy it from that dealership and then ask the question of why my salesman was told something different. Then it hit me like a load of bricks, he said that it is up to the dealership if they want to "trade", and that they must have told my salesman NO. No I am really feeling like I've been screwed over, and have just encouraged this process. After talking to a friend of the family that sells cars (different mfr) he said this happens all the time, and that the dealerships don't have to play nice together, and they want to sell what they have, which may not necessarily be what you want. I would think that the Manufacturer would control this, as I could have changed my mind on looking for this vehicle and went to my backup option of another model from another car co. What CRAP huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stock Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 That's long, so I'll start another post about the FEH experience so far. Ok, FEH experience so far. It's longwinded, but hopefully outlined well enough so anyone looking into the FEH can jump to areas of concern easily. General overview - I'm extremely happy with the purchase. There's no car on the market in my opinion that has such a winning combination of looks and styling, utility, 4WD capability, safety, gas mileage, technology, and general public appeal. All aspects of the FEH should do me well for many many years to come. Some more detailed points: 1) Gas Mileage - I got about 32mpg highway (roughly 70mph avg) on the drive home. In my few days of driving in the stop-and-go traffic of the south hills of Pittsburgh and in my commute into the city, I've been getting about 30mpg. That's even better than the estimated average mpg ratings. 2) A/C Effects - It was pretty hot and humid over the weekend, so the A/C was on. The truck rarely goes into EV mode with the A/C on. In fact, the ECON mode button must be on in order for the truck to ever go into EV mode while the A/C is on. That's in the owner's manual. And that effects the mileage to some degree (1 or 2 mpg city). Not a problem or issue at all, just stating a fact. 3) Dual Zone Climate Control - I love it. So does the girlfriend. Big plus for us. Fan speed automatically adjusts, which is awesome. (Sorry if this is normal for most people and not too amazing to you, but I'm coming from a Jeep Wrangler, so its a big jump ... I mean, just power windows and locks are amazing to me). 4) Center Console - Great design. The bins inside of the console come out and can be attached in the back or by the floor shifted on the passanger's side. Great for holding your car charge, cell phone, wallet, gum, coins, etc in some easy to access place that doesn't need to be out all of the time. This is a very simple thing, but one of the things that I like the most. 5) 40mph EV Mode - I'm soooo glad I don't have an '08 where the limit was 25mph I think. How often are you really ever under 25mph? (C'mon, fess up). I can drive to work in EV mode about 30% of the time. Aside from acceleration and hills, it's in EV. I wish I could accelerate a bit more w/o the engine kicking in ... but it'll work ... once you get upto speed, the engine will shut off. 6) Speakers - this is one of the two negatives I have to say. The front speakers are below knee-level, making everything sound a little muffled. I wish there was at least some mid-range or tweeters up near the dash. 7) Moonroof / Glare - the second negative I have to say is about the glare from the clear plastic sheilding the speedometer / tachometer / etc from the moonroof. The plastic needs to be tilted up or down about 10 degrees b/c with the shade open for the moonroof, the glare is in my eyes and blocks the speedometer. This might not be a problem for people shorter than 6'1" though or that have the seat up further. All in all though, I love the moonroof. Just can't stare at the MPG readings ... which is probably a good thing safety wise. 8) Ambient Lighting - P.I.M.P. And not totally useless ... it's nice to have that little bit of low light around at night if you're trying to look a directions or need to find something on the floor. It lights up the floor for all passangers and the cupholders in the front. There's something like 7 colors. 9) Brakes - I have no prob with the feel of the brakes. My Jeeps brakes are a lot stiffer, so this will take some getting used to, but they don't feel 'bad'. I can feel a bit of difference between when the generator is causing the loss of momentum and when its mostly the physical brakes. 10) Sync - I haven't done much with it other than make a couple calls, but my girlfriend says it sounds like I'm talking right into my phone, she doesn't hear her own voice over the speakers and through the microphone (which is cool ... even as an electrical engineer, I'm not sure how they accomplish full duplex conversation and keep the other person's voice from feeding back). My Motorola Q doesn't work with Sync totally, but good enough for now, until I get a new, more compatible, phone. I haven't used any media players with it yet though. I'm anxious to check out that USB port! 11) 110V Outlet - I haven't used it yet, but I think it'll be great for a cell charger (instead of having the often awkard and bulky cigarette lighter charger ... the often must be bought separately) and great to have a laptop in the car for a trip. 12) Maintence - This is great - basically, oil change and minimal maintence every 10,000 miles. My Jeep - every 3,000. And often crazy stuff like differential flushes. Not only should I save in gas, but I should also save in routine maintence. Even brakes should see less wear since most of the braking is done through the regenerative system. I'm a little bummed about not having the navigation, so I think for Christmas I'll get a garmin or tomtom or something. Last thing - and this is pretty dorky, but I'm gonna throw it out there - I love the feeling of not throwing energy (and money) to the wind when the car is stopped but running - I love the idea that a lot of that potential energy gained from climbing a hill will, in part be regained when I brake down the other side, especially if I have to come to a complete stop at the bottom of the hill - and I love that the Atkinson Cycle engine is more of a rotatary type than the Otto Cycle, and much more effecient. I'm not a big tree hugger or anything, but I like effeciency. Why throw all of our money into oil of which we burn 50% of in the city idling or everytime we climb a hill, and then brake all of the way down? Instead of throwing money into gas, I'm putting it into a more expensive hybrid, but it'll have a higher resale value than a gas Escape down the road for the simple fact that it'll always get better mileage. My 2 cents ... or more like a $1 worth ... pretty long. 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Stock Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 No I am really feeling like I've been screwed over, and have just encouraged this process. After talking to a friend of the family that sells cars (different mfr) he said this happens all the time, and that the dealerships don't have to play nice together, and they want to sell what they have, which may not necessarily be what you want. I would think that the Manufacturer would control this, as I could have changed my mind on looking for this vehicle and went to my backup option of another model from another car co. What CRAP huh? Yup, big pile of CRAP, for sure. I take solice in the fact that my salesman, who was trying to retain my business by lying, actually lost the sale by lying ... and also wasted a bunch of his time and effort. If that's how they want to play the game, bring it on, ya know?! You aren't the only salesman I can work with, bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsGadget Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Stock, or anyone else with an FEH or FEHL 4wd: Is there any indication outside or inside that the vehicle actually has 4wd? Any signs or placards? The only place that I can confirm that my FEHL actually has 4wd is on the window sticker. Just wanted to make sure this was normal ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stock Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Stock, or anyone else with an FEH or FEHL 4wd: Is there any indication outside or inside that the vehicle actually has 4wd? Any signs or placards? The only place that I can confirm that my FEHL actually has 4wd is on the window sticker. Just wanted to make sure this was normal ... Hey - Nope, no '4WD' or anything anywhere. I noticed ours has the spffiy 'Hybrid' logo where the '4WD' emblem would be on a gas model ... on the tailgate. But that's normal ... I haven't even thought about it ... I guess we're to look under the truck for a driveshaft, differential, and transfer case ... We do have a 'traction' button on the center console ... close to the USB jack ... but I'm not sure if the FWD have it too ... they might. I think that makes the front wheels a 'limited slip' differential when needed, so it likely is there on the FWD ... I don't know, Ins ... let me know if you find anything anywhere ... but that's all I got ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Hey - Nope, no '4WD' or anything anywhere. I noticed ours has the spffiy 'Hybrid' logo where the '4WD' emblem would be on a gas model ... on the tailgate. But that's normal ... I haven't even thought about it ... I guess we're to look under the truck for a driveshaft, differential, and transfer case ... We do have a 'traction' button on the center console ... close to the USB jack ... but I'm not sure if the FWD have it too ... they might. I think that makes the front wheels a 'limited slip' differential when needed, so it likely is there on the FWD ... I don't know, Ins ... let me know if you find anything anywhere ... but that's all I got ... That button next to the USB jack is to turn off Stability Control if you get stuck and need to spin the wheels some. Stability Control limits how much power goes to the wheels if they start to spin. If you restart the vehicle, the Stability Control with automatically be activated if you had turned it off earlier. This subject about the AWD markings came up with the '08 model. Like Stock said, look under the vehicle for the drive shaft and rear end. Everything is automatic and you don't have to activate or deactivate anything for traction in this AWD system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsGadget Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Okay good enough, thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckmanm Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Bump for a question - My DORA says "PRIORITY 10". That's not good, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twolostminds Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Bump for a question - My DORA says "PRIORITY 10". That's not good, is it? Actually, thats the highest priority a dealer can assign to an order. Bad would be something like 15 or 18. Really bad would be like 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckmanm Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Actually, thats the highest priority a dealer can assign to an order. Bad would be something like 15 or 18. Really bad would be like 99 Oh, cool. I figured they went 1-10 or something like that. I confirmed yesterday that I've got the first '09 order from my dealership, but they still don't have a VIN or any estimate when I'll get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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