ky862 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Lets face it, if & when the UAW opens OUR contract up we're all F**KED. The companies will ask for everything, lower wages, cut in benefits, plant closures, no JSP, etc. etc. It will not matter if you are high or low senority, people will lose their job. Do you think Ford cares if someone has 15 yrs. in and someone else has only 5 yrs.? Things are going to get nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Lets face it, if & when the UAW opens OUR contract up we're all F**KED. The companies will ask for everything, lower wages, cut in benefits, plant closures, no JSP, etc. etc. It will not matter if you are high or low senority, people will lose their job. Do you think Ford cares if someone has 15 yrs. in and someone else has only 5 yrs.? Things are going to get nasty. Your wrong my friend Low seniority will be laidoff and thats all there is to that!! seniority rules no matter how much u low seniority guys dispise it!! With that mindset Ford will just layoff everyone and hire all new young people like the transplants do and once you get injured on the job you will be fired is that what you want! The union ceases being a union if they loose seniority rights plain and simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadzee Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Your wrong my friend Low seniority will be laidoff and thats all there is to that!! seniority rules no matter how much u low seniority guys dispise it!! With that mindset Ford will just layoff everyone and hire all new young people like the transplants do and once you get injured on the job you will be fired is that what you want! The union ceases being a union if they loose seniority rights plain and simple! Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Your wrong my friend Low seniority will be laidoff and thats all there is to that!! seniority rules no matter how much u low seniority guys dispise it!! With that mindset Ford will just layoff everyone and hire all new young people like the transplants do and once you get injured on the job you will be fired is that what you want! The union ceases being a union if they loose seniority rights plain and simple! Don't count on that sergeant major (csmj) once the contract is open, don't count on seniority meaning anything! You have no idea what they (company/union) will do. This uncharted waters..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ky862 Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Your wrong my friend Low seniority will be laidoff and thats all there is to that!! seniority rules no matter how much u low seniority guys dispise it!! With that mindset Ford will just layoff everyone and hire all new young people like the transplants do and once you get injured on the job you will be fired is that what you want! The union ceases being a union if they loose seniority rights plain and simple! I'm hope you are correct. But i'm not low senority, I have 15 yrs. at a plant that will start producing a new product (for my plant) early next year. My point is, Ford has F**KED us in the past and I think it is going to happen again. US meaning all UAW workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raws41900 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 holy shit the sky is falling! why didnt you sign up for a buyout and get out while you could??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the new eye Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I'm hope you are correct. But i'm not low senority, I have 15 yrs. at a plant that will start producing a new product (for my plant) early next year. My point is, Ford has F**KED us in the past and I think it is going to happen again. US meaning all UAW workers.I AGREE WERE FUCKED IF THEY OPEN THE CONTRACT UP IT SEEMS TO ME GETTELFINGER WANTS TO ANYWAY HE IS A WASTE OF SPACE AN HAS DESTROYED OUR UNION PITTING WORKER AGIANST WORKER , IF HE OPENS THE CONTRACT THE MEMBERSHIP SHOULD ALSO DEMAND A CHANGE IN THE CONSTITUTION ON HOW WE ELECT OUR INTERNATIONAL REPS. ONE MAN ONE VOTE I'LL BET HE WILL THINK TWICE BEFORE HE GOES ON THE NEWS AN SAYS WE'RE READY TO GO TO THE TABLE . WHAT AN ASSHOLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makeastand Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I AGREE WERE FUCKED IF THEY OPEN THE CONTRACT UP IT SEEMS TO ME GETTELFINGER WANTS TO ANYWAY HE IS A WASTE OF SPACE AN HAS DESTROYED OUR UNION PITTING WORKER AGIANST WORKER , IF HE OPENS THE CONTRACT THE MEMBERSHIP SHOULD ALSO DEMAND A CHANGE IN THE CONSTITUTION ON HOW WE ELECT OUR INTERNATIONAL REPS. ONE MAN ONE VOTE I'LL BET HE WILL THINK TWICE BEFORE HE GOES ON THE NEWS AN SAYS WE'RE READY TO GO TO THE TABLE . WHAT AN ASSHOLE Ron say's "weve already made concessions to be able to compete with the foreign auto makers but we are willing to reopen the contract". Well I tell you what, Im a low senority guy with only 10 yrs. but Im not voting for jsp cut's, gen cut's or pay cut's. If it cost me my job then so be it. I dont want Ron's representation any way if he dont have the ball's to say "hey, the problem is not the contract. Weve made our concessions and now its the exec's turn, its congresses turn. Congress, your the biggest culprit for letting the economy go to shit! WHAT'S YOUR PLAN!" Ron is being a puss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Your wrong my friend Low seniority will be laidoff and thats all there is to that!! seniority rules no matter how much u low seniority guys dispise it!! With that mindset Ford will just layoff everyone and hire all new young people like the transplants do and once you get injured on the job you will be fired is that what you want! The union ceases being a union if they loose seniority rights plain and simple! So wait let me get this right, let's pit the young against the old so that we can get them fighting so you still get what you want? How about we stick together and strike over the loss of JSP, rather then cutting the throats of the young and watching our plant close after JSP has ended. Plain and simple JSP is the only thing that forces the automakers to continue building in the U.S., otherwise they would have to continue paying us while they are building out of the country. This is the most important obligation within our contract. It means they have to build in the U.S. or pay twice. F-ck you CSJM!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) So wait let me get this right, let's pit the young against the old so that we can get them fighting so you still get what you want? How about we stick together and strike over the loss of JSP, rather then cutting the throats of the young and watching our plant close after JSP has ended. Plain and simple JSP is the only thing that forces the automakers to continue building in the U.S., otherwise they would have to continue paying us while they are building out of the country. This is the most important obligation within our contract. It means they have to build in the U.S. or pay twice. F-ck you CSJM!!!!!!!!! I agree Im against eliminating JSP But I am right and u know it The low seniority go first always have always will. The union is there to make sure the older employees get there time in otherwise the company would layoff all the 25 year workers and NO ONE will get there 30 years in not even you! Is this what you want? Im not sure how much is in Fords pension fund but GM has $104 billion in it today! Last I read in 06 Ford had $70 billion in theres. The pension fund is good for at least 20 years even if they go out of business. And who is pitting who against each other?? You are!! Read your contract book what does it say about who gets laidoff first??? Im just stating facts about how the union works. Without seniority there is no need for a union! I'd rather cut the VEBA in half and have it last 40 years and negotiate it later in the decade and keep JSP as is! whats the matter u cant right FUCK ? F-ck ??? And I've been laidoff several times. I've worked in 7 count em 7 different plants. Laidoff for over a decade so I know what being laidoff is all about and it aint fun! Edited December 1, 2008 by CSMJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm2607 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 So wait let me get this right, let's pit the young against the old so that we can get them fighting so you still get what you want? How about we stick together and strike over the loss of JSP, rather then cutting the throats of the young and watching our plant close after JSP has ended. Plain and simple JSP is the only thing that forces the automakers to continue building in the U.S., otherwise they would have to continue paying us while they are building out of the country. This is the most important obligation within our contract. It means they have to build in the U.S. or pay twice. F-ck you CSJM!!!!!!!!! Exactly! Stick together! EVERY single post of his it also seems to me that he does the same thing--tries to pit the lower senority against the higher senority. We are ONE union! NO on wage cuts NO on giving up jsp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Exactly! Stick together! EVERY single post of his it also seems to me that he does the same thing--tries to pit the lower senority against the higher senority. We are ONE union! NO on wage cuts NO on giving up jsp! Im with you we will stick together but if there are layoffs who do you think should go first?? The guy with 25 years probably!! Im not pitting low vs. old you are Edited December 1, 2008 by CSMJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm2607 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Im with you we will stick together but if there are layoffs who do you think should go first?? The guy with 25 years probably!! Im not pitting low vs. old you are No, I beleive senority should always be honored. Always. But you seem to try and tell people how things are going to be and how they should vote if it comes to that. I've never seen you write anything on how we should STICK TOGETHER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm2607 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Im with you we will stick together but if there are layoffs who do you think should go first?? The guy with 25 years probably!! Im not pitting low vs. old you are ME? Your kidding me, right? Your a fucking idoit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 No, I beleive senority should always be honored. Always. But you seem to try and tell people how things are going to be and how they should vote if it comes to that. I've never seen you write anything on how we should STICK TOGETHER. I am strongly against getting rid of the JSP. How many times do I have to say that. I'd rather take a larger pay cut and keep it , in fact keep it at all cost! I'd even go so far as to say the CEO's want the GOP to demand getting rid of JSP so they can get rid of it and offshore more of our jobs. Nothing would surprise me! An elimination of JSP will get a NO VOTE from me my friend!! I think we all need to realize there are going to be cuts in our pay. Like I said GM has the JSP problem not Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) I agree Im against eliminating JSP But I am right and u know it The low seniority go first always have always will. The union is there to make sure the older employees get there time in otherwise the company would layoff all the 25 year workers and NO ONE will get there 30 years in not even you! Is this what you want? Im not sure how much is in Fords pension fund but GM has $104 billion in it today! Last I read in 06 Ford had $70 billion in theres. The pension fund is good for at least 20 years even if they go out of business. And who is pitting who against each other?? You are!! Read your contract book what does it say about who gets laidoff first??? Im just stating facts about how the union works. Without seniority there is no need for a union! I'd rather cut the VEBA in half and have it last 40 years and negotiate it later in the decade and keep JSP as is! whats the matter u cant right FUCK ? F-ck ??? And I've been laidoff several times. I've worked in 7 count em 7 different plants. Laidoff for over a decade so I know what being laidoff is all about and it aint fun! Listen p-ckerhead, This is what "I Know" The union would leave autonomy to the locals, and allow the remaining facilities to operate with their current employ only taking in people to fill available work. The local chairmen will not take one senior employee from another plant to displace a junior employee that is already qualified on his operation. Also the company will not allow it with their focus only on quality. Senior members would be laid off from their current locations with no assistance, and the remaining active employees will remain through their products life cycle. Once it is time to replace the products they build with something comparable in their segment, it will be built out of the U.S. in a lower cost labor market. Do you really think I'm that stupid to buy into your BS. This is what would happen if JSP is eliminated, and "You Know It"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited December 1, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I am strongly against getting rid of the JSP. How many times do I have to say that. I'd rather take a larger pay cut and keep it , in fact keep it at all cost! I'd even go so far as to say the CEO's want the GOP to demand getting rid of JSP so they can get rid of it and offshore more of our jobs. Nothing would surprise me! An elimination of JSP will get a NO VOTE from me my friend!! I think we all need to realize there are going to be cuts in our pay. Like I said GM has the JSP problem not Ford. did you know the 1400 ford has in JSP program, has doubled in the last week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 did you know the 1400 ford has in JSP program, has doubled in the last week? Dark he knows what is going on, he is just here to make it sound as if people have only two options, I'm not agreeing to either!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udontkno Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Ron say's "weve already made concessions to be able to compete with the foreign auto makers but we are willing to reopen the contract". Well I tell you what, Im a low senority guy with only 10 yrs. but Im not voting for jsp cut's, gen cut's or pay cut's. If it cost me my job then so be it. I dont want Ron's representation any way if he dont have the ball's to say "hey, the problem is not the contract. Weve made our concessions and now its the exec's turn, its congresses turn. Congress, your the biggest culprit for letting the economy go to shit! WHAT'S YOUR PLAN!" Ron is being a puss. I am with you brother! The Ford family does not want to lose all of their shares in a bankruptcy. In my book Ron has all of the cards. If Ford goes bankrupt the stock is worthless, the creditors are the new owners and once they reorganize new stocks are issued. The Ford family no longer controls the company. The family does not want this anymore than the union workers want to take a pay cut and chance losing their home. GM and Chrysler are a little different but I do not see GM going bankrupt, this is why GM is working with its bond holders to take less money. Chrysler is a little harder to read but I think Cerberus will give big money for another auto company to take Chrysler off its hands. No cuts, no way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeezNutz Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 What in the hell is the point of a four year contract, or a contract at all for that matter, if we're just going to constantly reopen it every time something happens? Did the UAW ask to have the contract reopened when we were making record profits? Do you honestly believe Ford would have done that for you? Why then should we constantly do it for them? Lastly, I'd like to thank CSMJ for spelling "FUCK" for all of us. Now if he would concentrate on using there, their, they're appropriately we might actually be able to comprehend what he's saying. Almost forgot... <--- It's called a period. Use one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftski Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Listen p-ckerhead, This is what "I Know" The union would leave autonomy to the locals, and allow the remaining facilities to operate with their current employ only taking in people to fill available work. The local chairmen will not take one senior employee from another plant to displace a junior employee that is already qualified on his operation. Also the company will not allow it with their focus only on quality. Senior members would be laid off from their current locations with no assistance, and the remaining active employees will remain through their products life cycle. Once it is time to replace the products they build with something comparable in their segment, it will be built out of the U.S. in a lower cost labor market. Do you really think I'm that stupid to buy into your BS. This is what would happen if JSP is eliminated, and "You Know It"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Furious for telling it like it will be after the JSP is gone. Plants will close and Ford won't care how many years seniority you have, if your plant closes you get laid off plain and simple. You sit at home hoping for an opening somewhere. By the way, there will no longer be any buyouts either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Thank you Furious for telling it like it will be after the JSP is gone. Plants will close and Ford won't care how many years seniority you have, if your plant closes you get laid off plain and simple. You sit at home hoping for an opening somewhere. By the way, there will no longer be any buyouts either! Yup, no more buyouts. They will have no incentive to offer them, they will simply lay you off so you can start your new carer away from Ford after your unemployment runs out!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited December 1, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Dark he knows what is going on, he is just here to make it sound as if people have only two options, I'm not agreeing to either!!!!!!!!!!! agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForkMeI'mDone Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Honestly, I REALLY HATE to say it, but Welcome to the world your brothers & sisters from NAP, AAp, SLAP...have been in. It ain't easy, bearly doable, & I truly wish you all the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el norte Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Im with you we will stick together but if there are layoffs who do you think should go first?? The guy with 25 years probably!! Im not pitting low vs. old you are you are a dickhead!! stop trying to cause anxiety for everyone! why not wait and see what happens before opening your mouth! this is not the first recession in the world! if shit happens then it happens! membership is pretty large still and has to vote for any concessions, and i doubt everyone is going to give up the farm. there will always be cars made in the USA. i'm not giving a dime! havent had a pay raise in what 7-8 yrs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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