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Autoworkers Union Keeps $6 Million Golf Course for Members at $33 Million Lakeside Retreat


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well, ive been a UAW member for 16 years and i can truthfully say that the UAW is worthless. i think they mean good, but they cant do good. we work for ford motor company....bottom line. they are gonna do what they want, when they want and no one can do a fucking thing about it. i have NEVER been paid a grievance in 16 years of service. committemen are glorified secretaries, nothing more, but much less.

wow-i guess we all know who the whiney bitch at KTP is...

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With the money we are losing on it because of falling real estate values, we might just need one soon.

 

Sell it.

 

 

I agree. With all the cuts we face, it would be nice to sell it, and put the money back into benefits for the entire membership.

As it stands now, only a small percentage on union members actually benefit from blacklake.

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But you will gladly accept what the u.a.w. offers you wont you. What, your not a big enough person to admit that the job you do is most likely easier than it once was due to the u.a.w. fighting to make these jobs more ergonomically correct? How was that Christmas bonus the u.a.w. fought for work out for ya this year? Considering you have at least 16 years seniority, did you enjoy your 120 hrs. of vacation that the u.a.w. has gotten you? Oh wait a minute, I'm sure the company would have given you that much vacation anyway seeing as how they care about you so much more than your union does. How about the signing bonus you received last contract? what did you use that for? Not to mention the profit sharing checks you have received. Did the company give you that because they really really like you? I could go on and on, but it would be a waste of time with you. You already have your mind made up, in your opinion the u.a.w. is worthless because you haven't had a grievance paid off in your 16 years of service. Maybe, Just maybe they didn't have merit. But if they did and IF your committeeman messed up, do something about it. Step up to the plate and run for the position or convince someone you trust to run. Wait, strike that last sentence.....it's so much easier to sit back and MF people than to actually do something about it.

Seeing as how you think the u.a.w. is worthless, if there ever comes a time that you are accused of breaking a company rule, all you need to do is check that little box that states you waive your rights to union representation brother. Your a hypocrite... the only problem is your not man enough to admit it.

Now Steve hang on just a second. I'm not defending either "ktpworker69" or the union. I take exception to your comment about vacation, ergonomics, profit sharing checks,X-mas bonus, and the like. All of these I had BEFORE I worked for Ford. In fact I've had them at every place I place I have ever worked. Insurance I even had that too. Sick days, personal days the same. The Only difference and main reason I'm here at Ford and have been here for 10 years.IS MONEY. The union can be at times a very useful tool at times, but lately some people in the top positions are only there because of who thier daddy was. I'm not saying this is true of All of the people in the top positions with the UAW. You have to admit that some of the higher ups in different locals around the country seem questionable or suspect. When you question the decisions that get made you get some standard BS answer like "They can do that". It leaves you with a "what the hell am i paying dues for" attitude. You are right about one thing though if you are not happy run for a position and try and change it , but even then its a popularity contest or you're riding on someone else's coat tails.

 

Just my two cents and I'll keep paying my dues so I can and have the right to comment.

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It's too bad the rank and file do not have local learning centers or fitness centers to use on a daily basis but we still have a resort for several millions used by a fraction of the membership. Our learning center was shut down long ago and out fitness center is funded from our "nickel" fund.

 

I would sell it and use the money for anything else for the membership that paid for it and continue to fund it.

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It's too bad the rank and file do not have local learning centers or fitness centers to use on a daily basis but we still have a resort for several millions used by a fraction of the membership. Our learning center was shut down long ago and out fitness center is funded from our "nickel" fund.

 

I would sell it and use the money for anything else for the membership that paid for it and continue to fund it.

At least you guys have a place to workout at,Our memberships were cancelled a couple of years ago,and we were informed that we could find a local Gym and pay for our own Memberships. And as far as our Learning Center it was a Joke from the start. If the Company is responsible for it and its for the UAW,It just wont happen.

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But you will gladly accept what the u.a.w. offers you wont you. What, your not a big enough person to admit that the job you do is most likely easier than it once was due to the u.a.w. fighting to make these jobs more ergonomically correct? How was that Christmas bonus the u.a.w. fought for work out for ya this year? Considering you have at least 16 years seniority, did you enjoy your 120 hrs. of vacation that the u.a.w. has gotten you? Oh wait a minute, I'm sure the company would have given you that much vacation anyway seeing as how they care about you so much more than your union does. How about the signing bonus you received last contract? what did you use that for? Not to mention the profit sharing checks you have received. Did the company give you that because they really really like you? I could go on and on, but it would be a waste of time with you. You already have your mind made up, in your opinion the u.a.w. is worthless because you haven't had a grievance paid off in your 16 years of service. Maybe, Just maybe they didn't have merit. But if they did and IF your committeeman messed up, do something about it. Step up to the plate and run for the position or convince someone you trust to run. Wait, strike that last sentence.....it's so much easier to sit back and MF people than to actually do something about it.

Seeing as how you think the u.a.w. is worthless, if there ever comes a time that you are accused of breaking a company rule, all you need to do is check that little box that states you waive your rights to union representation brother. Your a hypocrite... the only problem is your not man enough to admit it.

first off pal....the UAW dont offer me shit.

 

do you honestly think that all the profit sharing, benefits, xmas bonuses and everything come from the UAW?.....NOT! there are salary workers that recieve bonuses, benefits, ect. and they arent being robbed of $60 a month.

 

yes....i did enjoy my 120 hrs of vacation. i spent some of it playing golf with a family member that is salary and he was on "his" vacation time too. the UAW didnt give him his vacation time did they?

 

who decides wether a grievance has merit? a committeman? its more like, if they feel like writing one. besides, who gets the grievance....the company, the people that supposedly did you wrong in the first place. do you really think the company just fucks people then makes it right? NOPE

 

i dont wanna step up to the plate and run for comedian. i want NOTHING to do with this fucking scandal of a business. by the way....i do represent myself and HAVE gotten more things taken care of without these scumbags..........if that makes me a hypocrite....SO BE IT, so fuck you and the Useless And Worthless

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Now Steve hang on just a second. I'm not defending either "ktpworker69" or the union. I take exception to your comment about vacation, ergonomics, profit sharing checks,X-mas bonus, and the like. All of these I had BEFORE I worked for Ford. In fact I've had them at every place I place I have ever worked. Insurance I even had that too. Sick days, personal days the same. The Only difference and main reason I'm here at Ford and have been here for 10 years.IS MONEY. The union can be at times a very useful tool at times, but lately some people in the top positions are only there because of who thier daddy was. I'm not saying this is true of All of the people in the top positions with the UAW. You have to admit that some of the higher ups in different locals around the country seem questionable or suspect. When you question the decisions that get made you get some standard BS answer like "They can do that". It leaves you with a "what the hell am i paying dues for" attitude. You are right about one thing though if you are not happy run for a position and try and change it , but even then its a popularity contest or you're riding on someone else's coat tails.

 

Just my two cents and I'll keep paying my dues so I can and have the right to comment.

 

I also have worked at other places that have supplied some of the things i have listed. If you had all of the things i listed at other non-union companies, consider yourself extremely lucky. The reality is that if you did get decent vacation time, a Christmas bonus, etc at a non-union shop, you can still thank the u.a.w. for that. What the u.a.w. won trickled down to non-union shops so that these non-union shops could keep the u.a.w. out. Look at the foreign car plants as a example brother. My Grandfather worked at Ford as a Supervisor. He has told me stories how he used to be forced to walk catwalks over top of his people and watch them like some type of prison warden. My Father worked at Ford and used to have to soak his fore arms and hands in hot water in the morning to get them to loosen up.

The bottom line is this...If these big companies are so generous to their people, why do they go to foreign countries and pay people so little. Do you think the people in these foreign countries get profit sharing, ergonomically correct jobs, etc.. I highly doubt it.

As far as local and higher up leadership goes, I'm not saying we should all have blind faith. Regardless of who you are, you should only run for a elected position if your running for the right reasons. We cannot afford to elect people that only run because they want to be "THE MAN", or because they don't want to work on the floor! These people need to understand that they have a huge responsibility to the membership if they get elected. That is not something that should be taken lightly. The membership needs to look at what each candidate has done in the past, not what the candidate "says" he will do. If someone running for a position has been a slug his whole time at Fords, that pretty much tells you what kind of official he's gonna be. One of the problems you have is that a lot of people don't investigate to see what these candidates are about. They vote blindly at name recognition or don't vote at all. It's only when things get extremely bad that they take the general election serious and that hurts the whole plant.

As far as higher up, there is always gonna be some nepotism there. I don't like it but i think it's true in any place you look. What can be done about it? I'm not sure brother.

In closing, all of us have the right to raise complaints. Everyone in a elected position should be held accountable! I just hate to see when people get on here and say things like "the u.a.w. is worthless" when at the same time they are happily accepting what the u.a.w. has gotten them. Don't group the entire u.a.w. with the few bad apples you see. That's like saying the entire senate needs to be cleaned out because they didn't pass the bridge loan. The fact is, we had quit a few senators that defended us and if you look at their voting records, they have always been on the side of labor.

 

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first off pal....the UAW dont offer me shit.

 

do you honestly think that all the profit sharing, benefits, xmas bonuses and everything come from the UAW?.....NOT! there are salary workers that recieve bonuses, benefits, ect. and they arent being robbed of $60 a month.

 

yes....i did enjoy my 120 hrs of vacation. i spent some of it playing golf with a family member that is salary and he was on "his" vacation time too. the UAW didnt give him his vacation time did they?

 

who decides wether a grievance has merit? a committeman? its more like, if they feel like writing one. besides, who gets the grievance....the company, the people that supposedly did you wrong in the first place. do you really think the company just fucks people then makes it right? NOPE

 

i dont wanna step up to the plate and run for comedian. i want NOTHING to do with this fucking scandal of a business. by the way....i do represent myself and HAVE gotten more things taken care of without these scumbags..........if that makes me a hypocrite....SO BE IT, so fuck you and the Useless And Worthless

:boring:

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first off pal....the UAW dont offer me shit.

 

do you honestly think that all the profit sharing, benefits, xmas bonuses and everything come from the UAW?.....NOT! there are salary workers that recieve bonuses, benefits, ect. and they arent being robbed of $60 a month.

 

yes....i did enjoy my 120 hrs of vacation. i spent some of it playing golf with a family member that is salary and he was on "his" vacation time too. the UAW didnt give him his vacation time did they?

 

who decides wether a grievance has merit? a committeman? its more like, if they feel like writing one. besides, who gets the grievance....the company, the people that supposedly did you wrong in the first place. do you really think the company just fucks people then makes it right? NOPE

 

i dont wanna step up to the plate and run for comedian. i want NOTHING to do with this fucking scandal of a business. by the way....i do represent myself and HAVE gotten more things taken care of without these scumbags..........if that makes me a hypocrite....SO BE IT, so fuck you and the Useless And Worthless

 

Your ignorant! It's obvious that your not here to debate the usefulness of the u.a.w., but rather to bash it without being a big enough person to admit when you are wrong.

If you came on here and raised your complaints while stating that you were leaving for a non- union job or going to management, i could respect that. I would still think you were wrong, but i could respect your decision and wish you good luck. But instead, you bitch and moan about the u.a.w. but refuse to get involved. You gladly accept what the u.a.w. has gotten you while refusing to acknowledge any of it.

About grievances... Yes, as a committeeman, i do have the authority to decide if a grievance has merit or not. If you come in to work late on a constant basis and get written up, and then ask for a grievance, your not getting one. If you leave work before the end of your shift and get docked, you not getting a grievance. If you have a legitimate complaint, i would write the grievance. If your committeeman isn't doing that, there are ways to handle that. Having 16 years seniority, i shouldn't have to explain the process.

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Your ignorant! It's obvious that your not here to debate the usefulness of the u.a.w., but rather to bash it without being a big enough person to admit when you are wrong.

If you came on here and raised your complaints while stating that you were leaving for a non- union job or going to management, i could respect that. I would still think you were wrong, but i could respect your decision and wish you good luck. But instead, you bitch and moan about the u.a.w. but refuse to get involved. You gladly accept what the u.a.w. has gotten you while refusing to acknowledge any of it.

About grievances... Yes, as a committeeman, i do have the authority to decide if a grievance has merit or not. If you come in to work late on a constant basis and get written up, and then ask for a grievance, your not getting one. If you leave work before the end of your shift and get docked, you not getting a grievance. If you have a legitimate complaint, i would write the grievance. If your committeeman isn't doing that, there are ways to handle that. Having 16 years seniority, i shouldn't have to explain the process.

ktpworker69 is probably the person who has one of the easiest jobs on the line and finally got some work added to them. Then they probably moaned and groaned and got the job modapt and ended up with more work because it came in way low. the union couldn't do anything about it because the work load was still low. I don't know if that is the case, but by this persons comments they sure fit the profile. I'm sure their ok with others around them getting more work.

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first off pal....the UAW dont offer me shit.

 

do you honestly think that all the profit sharing, benefits, xmas bonuses and everything come from the UAW?.....NOT! there are salary workers that recieve bonuses, benefits, ect. and they arent being robbed of $60 a month.

 

yes....i did enjoy my 120 hrs of vacation. i spent some of it playing golf with a family member that is salary and he was on "his" vacation time too. the UAW didnt give him his vacation time did they?

 

who decides wether a grievance has merit? a committeman? its more like, if they feel like writing one. besides, who gets the grievance....the company, the people that supposedly did you wrong in the first place. do you really think the company just fucks people then makes it right? NOPE

 

i dont wanna step up to the plate and run for comedian. i want NOTHING to do with this fucking scandal of a business. by the way....i do represent myself and HAVE gotten more things taken care of without these scumbags..........if that makes me a hypocrite....SO BE IT, so fuck you and the Useless And Worthless

 

This just puts the icing on the cake. You truly are whacked. You need to move farther down South and get a job at one of those transplants. For people like you I like to say, YOU ARE THE "U" IN UNION! If you don't like it, then move to a Right to Work State! Your punctuation and spelling tell me thats where you belong anyways! :censored:

 

Ed.

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This just puts the icing on the cake. You truly are whacked. You need to move farther down South and get a job at one of those transplants. For people like you I like to say, YOU ARE THE "U" IN UNION! If you don't like it, then move to a Right to Work State! Your punctuation and spelling tell me thats where you belong anyways! :censored:

 

Ed.

 

Whoa, don't group all southerners together Ed. I'm a hillbilly too brother! LOL

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since when you think the UAW gives a fuck about thier people? had a friend that was going thru some crazy shit about cutting a job out and getting put on medical, unicare denied him, workers comp gave some bullshit excuse and he went for 14 weeks without pay....drained ALL his savings, is a single parent and was about to have his car repo'd and his electric cut off. ford kept telling him that someone was supposed to pay him but they didnt kno who. do you think the UAW offered the person a little money to hold him over......NOPE. so, his power got cut off, and he got behind on his house payment....ford or unicare still owes about 6 grand to be even

 

 

Weren't you offered the buyout? I'm sure you can find a nonunion job and let someone else take your position. In case you haven't noticed, many people are looking for work.

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Your ignorant! It's obvious that your not here to debate the usefulness of the u.a.w., but rather to bash it without being a big enough person to admit when you are wrong.

If you came on here and raised your complaints while stating that you were leaving for a non- union job or going to management, i could respect that. I would still think you were wrong, but i could respect your decision and wish you good luck. But instead, you bitch and moan about the u.a.w. but refuse to get involved. You gladly accept what the u.a.w. has gotten you while refusing to acknowledge any of it.

About grievances... Yes, as a committeeman, i do have the authority to decide if a grievance has merit or not. If you come in to work late on a constant basis and get written up, and then ask for a grievance, your not getting one. If you leave work before the end of your shift and get docked, you not getting a grievance. If you have a legitimate complaint, i would write the grievance. If your committeeman isn't doing that, there are ways to handle that. Having 16 years seniority, i shouldn't have to explain the process.

ok brother.....i am not refusing to acknowledge any of it. i know the history of the uaw, i know what they went thru to get us the things we have now. the uaw was a great thing in the day, but the days of a great union are long gone.

 

and...no, you dont have to explain the process to me

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first off pal....the UAW dont offer me shit.

 

do you honestly think that all the profit sharing, benefits, xmas bonuses and everything come from the UAW?.....NOT! there are salary workers that recieve bonuses, benefits, ect. and they arent being robbed of $60 a month.

 

yes....i did enjoy my 120 hrs of vacation. i spent some of it playing golf with a family member that is salary and he was on "his" vacation time too. the UAW didnt give him his vacation time did they?

 

who decides wether a grievance has merit? a committeman? its more like, if they feel like writing one. besides, who gets the grievance....the company, the people that supposedly did you wrong in the first place. do you really think the company just fucks people then makes it right? NOPE

 

i dont wanna step up to the plate and run for comedian. i want NOTHING to do with this fucking scandal of a business. by the way....i do represent myself and HAVE gotten more things taken care of without these scumbags..........if that makes me a hypocrite....SO BE IT, so fuck you and the Useless And Worthless

:censored: You are about the most "anti union" creep that I've ever seen post on this board. Have you ever asked to go to Black Lake ? You can, you know? I'd bet not. You are excellent at throwing stones at the UAW. When's the last time you worked at anything to contribute to a needy neighbor or the community on behalf of the UAW? Probably never. Do you celebrate Labor Day? Maybe, if you do it's probably on the golf course with that salary relative while explaining to them how to eliminate another Brothers job. This Union is not as great as it once was, part of the reason for that is that we have a hell of alot of members such as yourself who could give a shit less about others. Hell, as tough as you sound at getting things done, you should be Chairman at KTP. Do the Union one favor, LEAVE and stop polluting our membership. :redcard:

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well, ive been a UAW member for 16 years and i can truthfully say that the UAW is worthless. i think they mean good, but they cant do good. we work for ford motor company....bottom line. they are gonna do what they want, when they want and no one can do a fucking thing about it. i have NEVER been paid a grievance in 16 years of service. committemen are glorified secretaries, nothing more, but much less.

I've been a UAW member for 21 years and I feel that your comments are a bit extreme to say the least. We all know the UAW is not perfect, but without our union the quality of life the member's are able to have would definitely be much less. I know that I am very fortunate to work for Ford Motor Company, and I also know that if it were not for the UAW during these trying times, we all probably would be worst off,(I would be).

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I also have worked at other places that have supplied some of the things i have listed. If you had all of the things i listed at other non-union companies, consider yourself extremely lucky. The reality is that if you did get decent vacation time, a Christmas bonus, etc at a non-union shop, you can still thank the u.a.w. for that. What the u.a.w. won trickled down to non-union shops so that these non-union shops could keep the u.a.w. out. Look at the foreign car plants as a example brother. My Grandfather worked at Ford as a Supervisor. He has told me stories how he used to be forced to walk catwalks over top of his people and watch them like some type of prison warden. My Father worked at Ford and used to have to soak his fore arms and hands in hot water in the morning to get them to loosen up.

The bottom line is this...If these big companies are so generous to their people, why do they go to foreign countries and pay people so little. Do you think the people in these foreign countries get profit sharing, ergonomically correct jobs, etc.. I highly doubt it.

As far as local and higher up leadership goes, I'm not saying we should all have blind faith. Regardless of who you are, you should only run for a elected position if your running for the right reasons. We cannot afford to elect people that only run because they want to be "THE MAN", or because they don't want to work on the floor! These people need to understand that they have a huge responsibility to the membership if they get elected. That is not something that should be taken lightly. The membership needs to look at what each candidate has done in the past, not what the candidate "says" he will do. If someone running for a position has been a slug his whole time at Fords, that pretty much tells you what kind of official he's gonna be. One of the problems you have is that a lot of people don't investigate to see what these candidates are about. They vote blindly at name recognition or don't vote at all. It's only when things get extremely bad that they take the general election serious and that hurts the whole plant.

As far as higher up, there is always gonna be some nepotism there. I don't like it but i think it's true in any place you look. What can be done about it? I'm not sure brother.

In closing, all of us have the right to raise complaints. Everyone in a elected position should be held accountable! I just hate to see when people get on here and say things like "the u.a.w. is worthless" when at the same time they are happily accepting what the u.a.w. has gotten them. Don't group the entire u.a.w. with the few bad apples you see. That's like saying the entire senate needs to be cleaned out because they didn't pass the bridge loan. The fact is, we had quit a few senators that defended us and if you look at their voting records, they have always been on the side of labor.

 

Any rational person knows the statements you make are true. But no matter what some people are never happy and always have to complain about something.

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ok brother.....i am not refusing to acknowledge any of it. i know the history of the uaw, i know what they went thru to get us the things we have now. the uaw was a great thing in the day, but the days of a great union are long gone.

 

and...no, you dont have to explain the process to me

 

Seeing as how you are man enough to admit what the u.a.w has done for you, i will apologize for the name calling brother. No one wants to see the u.a.w. give back the things we have fought for, including me. But this isn't the first time we have made concessions and it won't be the last.

As far as "the days of a great union are long gone", what defines a great union? In my opinion, a great union is defined by the actions taken in dire times. There have been many presidents that have fought for gains when times were good and we had some leverage. Is it the gains these presidents won that defines how good they were? I think that if you look back at history, the truly great presidents are the ones that found a way to weaken the blow when the shit hit the fan. I don't ever recall the shit hitting the fan like it is right now. Am I calling Ron a great president? I can't answer that because I don't have enough information to make a educated decision. I haven't always agreed with everything Ron has done, but then again, I never walked in his shoes. I think time will tell on how Ron is viewed. I will say this though, a great union is not defined by the leadership only. Leadership has a lot to do with it, but it starts on the front lines at the local level. You can have the best leadership in the world, but if you don't elect people at the local level that run for the right reasons, it means nothing. People need to stop listening to what these people say they are gonna do. They need to found out what type of worker they are. If they were a slug while working, you can bet they will be a slug in office. They need to ask people that work with them if they have integrity. They need to ask what their attendance was like.

I also believe that the union has to stop catering to the 10% that take up 90% of their time. If they keep catering to them, they become their crutch. These people that can't seem to make it to work or repeatedly show up late need to be given the rope to hang themselves with! But that's me and that's why i will most likely be a one term committeeman. Lol.

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This has nothing to do with Ford....but a few facts for arguments sake:

 

1. You all "own" this...it is your union

2. It has not "lost"money "technically".....it is paid for with the interest earned on the strike fund.

3. Your union would love to sell the golf course...but there are no buyers...after all...who would buy a golf course that is not profitable as a free standing course.

4. It is not a private course...open to the public

5. The lodge is not exclusive for UAW leaders....members courses are offered and taught there...as well as many community and interfaith groups using it...along with other unions.

6. Our ever burning flame memorial to Walter Reuther is located there

7. Your union has not asked for a bailout or a loan.

 

You are entitled to your opinions....but be a little educated on the subject first.........

 

Selling The Walter and May Ruether Eductaion Center would be the final blow to what we stand for in the UAW. A complete and total slap the the Ruether Brothers and Steve Yovkich. I would be ashamed if we sold the Center. Anyone who has been to class there knows it is a school not a resort.

The golf course is nice and fun to play but I have to say sell it if it makes sense. If you can in this economy? We may have to eat it. I just don't understand why we are getting beat up about the golf course everyone knows they were trying to sell it for years now. They can't give the thing away.

The golf course is very nice and provides a break from class at the end of the day.

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Selling The Walter and May Ruether Eductaion Center would be the final blow to what we stand for in the UAW. A complete and total slap the the Ruether Brothers and Steve Yovkich. I would be ashamed if we sold the Center. Anyone who has been to class there knows it is a school not a resort.

The golf course is nice and fun to play but I have to say sell it if it makes sense. If you can in this economy? We may have to eat it. I just don't understand why we are getting beat up about the golf course everyone knows they were trying to sell it for years now. They can't give the thing away.

The golf course is very nice and provides a break from class at the end of the day.

 

My dad actually worked there when it was built, he said it was pretty nice, I've never been there myself. I've asked about it a few times and my wife sent in some paperwork of some kind so we could go, but never heard anything. My actual point though is this, they have been trying to sell the golf course portion on and off for several years, but all the developers that are interested want the whole thing, not just the gold course. The union will not budge on that, it's only the golf course that is for sale.

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