Sweetheart Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...0367/&imw=Y Just looking for different opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatbaby Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...0367/&imw=Y Just looking for different opinions. I guess I don't understand the whole idea behind this. How is this going to change the outcome of votes? What is the Unions thought process in this? Why is this such a bid deal? Maybe I am naive, but I just don't get the big hoopla over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furious2auto Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I guess I don't understand the whole idea behind this. How is this going to change the outcome of votes? What is the Unions thought process in this? Why is this such a bid deal? Maybe I am naive, but I just don't get the big hoopla over this. This could not be good for business is what the article is saying and for the economy. As the article stated Michigan is Not a right to work state, with me so far. Union members are required to pay dues to their union, therefore being arbitrating(binding), still with me. If you're a union you'd want to expand knowing this. Big plus for the unions very bad for the company. Given the publics dislike for unions already along with companies dislike for unions. Smaller manacturing firms will pack up there bags and leave Michigan or shut the doors for good (you dont want that) and any other states that are Not right to work states. Still with me. So what they are saying simply is businesses will leave. How does this affect us you may ask? There are many non-union suppliers that make parts for the auto companies if they falter, domino effect baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunionisforever Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 You either support unions or you don't. If you do then you would support this bill passing because it will increase the number of unionized workers and thus strengthen the union. As the UAW has lost members over the years it has also lost it's teeth and ability to stand up for the workers. (That's why we just rolled over and gave up 20 years of progress with the concessions). If you don't support unions then you will go along with Big business and their puppets in the Republican party who will use millions of dollars to fight this bill, Why? Because every dollar that the Union bargains for to put in your pocket is a dollar they don't put in theirs... and they don't like that. The argument that they will use in Michigan is that it will cause business to flee to other states to escape the law. The only problem with that argument is that it will be a Federal law that covers all States. Even if you move to a 'Right to Work' State, your business can still be Unionized. All it means is that the workers cannot be forced to pay union dues. You still have to pay the wages that are bargained for by the Union. The same people who are responsible for the "Right to Work Laws" imposed by 22 States are the same people who have been trying to make Michigan a Right to Work State for years. They are the same people who are fighting this Bill and who most likely bribed Manny Lopez into righting that biased and misinforming article for the notoriously Anti-Union Detroit News. We as working people are at WAR with these people and have been for years. I guess the only question is... What side are you on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rn4 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 You either support unions or you don't. If you do then you would support this bill passing because it will increase the number of unionized workers and thus strengthen the union. As the UAW has lost members over the years it has also lost it's teeth and ability to stand up for the workers. (That's why we just rolled over and gave up 20 years of progress with the concessions). If you don't support unions then you will go along with Big business and their puppets in the Republican party who will use millions of dollars to fight this bill, Why? Because every dollar that the Union bargains for to put in your pocket is a dollar they don't put in theirs... and they don't like that. The argument that they will use in Michigan is that it will cause business to flee to other states to escape the law. The only problem with that argument is that it will be a Federal law that covers all States. Even if you move to a 'Right to Work' State, your business can still be Unionized. All it means is that the workers cannot be forced to pay union dues. You still have to pay the wages that are bargained for by the Union. The same people who are responsible for the "Right to Work Laws" imposed by 22 States are the same people who have been trying to make Michigan a Right to Work State for years. They are the same people who are fighting this Bill and who most likely bribed Manny Lopez into righting that biased and misinforming article for the notoriously Anti-Union Detroit News. We as working people are at WAR with these people and have been for years. I guess the only question is... What side are you on? Good Post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatbaby Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Okay, I understand all about "Right to Work" and paying dues and all that goes along with a closed shop. But from what little I know about this bill, I am guessing that with the "card check" there is no open vote? And therefore people will be more likely to vote for the union? Am I right? I could see where this would give the unions a better chance of organizing, and I wouldn't take the threat of packing up shop and moving to another state very seriously. Heck, many of these companies are having a hard time trying to stay viable now. Besides, this would be in every state anyway right? And another thing...don't you want your business in the general vicinity of your customers, so if auto are dominantly in Michigan, you stay in Michigan or pay the price to ship, because the autos aren't going to pay more for their parts. Am I on the right track here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 This is the Employee fee choice act. IIRC it differ's from the "right to work" bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTV to SHV Transferee Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Okay, I understand all about "Right to Work" and paying dues and all that goes along with a closed shop. But from what little I know about this bill, I am guessing that with the "card check" there is no open vote? And therefore people will be more likely to vote for the union? Am I right? I could see where this would give the unions a better chance of organizing, and I wouldn't take the threat of packing up shop and moving to another state very seriously. Heck, many of these companies are having a hard time trying to stay viable now. Besides, this would be in every state anyway right? And another thing...don't you want your business in the general vicinity of your customers, so if auto are dominantly in Michigan, you stay in Michigan or pay the price to ship, because the autos aren't going to pay more for their parts. Am I on the right track here? In a way, You do vote. You vote when you sign the authorization card to be a Union member. Currently, you only have to have 30% of the eligible workforce within your workplace to call a vote. But 50% plus 1 has to vote in favor for the Union. If the Union wins, then the company drags out the contract negotiations for sometimes years. But the Employee Free Choice Act will make the company and Union's differences be settled by binding arbitration. Basically a third un-biased party will decide for you. The arbitrator is decided by the NLRB with five arbitrators listed and the company and Union widle the list down to one. The company strike one off the list, the Union strikes one off the list untill 1 is left and there you have your arbitrator! Companies have been hiring Union busting lawyers for years and scaring away possible Yes votes for Union organizing drives. They tell you the shop will close and they will just move elsewhere. They tell you that you will go on strike and loose your home, get divorced, loose your family, basically anything to get you to vote no. The Union then files an un-fair labor practice and the company is usually found guilty but only pays a small fine and they do have to post a ruling in the shop, but only after the Union is voted down and the people have to wait 365 days before they can try again. Then before another vote, most of the Yes employees have either been fired for something else or have quit! Just what the company wants! The companies have complete power without a Union and they want it to stay that way! The Republicans fired the first shots across the bough of the Labor vs. Republican-Big Business fight that will happen the next 4 years. Remember back in December, when the Auto companies and the UAW got grilled by the Senate and House of Reps? Who was doing all the grilling??? Those right-to-work state Senators! They have the old 'let them work for nothng and just be happy you have a job while I get rich' attitude! these Senators have promised Mercedes, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and VW that NO Union's will be in their plants! The republicans are firing their guns at the woking people and most are oblivious to it! The Detnews article is just a small cannon ball compared to daily talk radio, foxnews and fox business channel. Notice the smug looks and comments given by corker & shelby??? did you listen to their remarks about the job banks? Sub Pay? Health Care? Pensions? VEBA's? Guess what, none of the constituants in Tenn or Alabama have those perks and they promissed all the foreign companies that their people wont get them either. Other Union busting companies include Overnite trucking (now UPS Freight and NOW Teamsters), USF Freight, FedEX, pick any meat packing company and many many of the smaller airlines! The war is on! Great question from another post! Which side will you be on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Yeah boatbaby your pretty much nailing it. No name's on the ballot. This way the company cannot "go after" the ee's who were for organizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatbaby Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Thanks. I worked for a company where the UAW tried to organize. One of the workers (company favorite, patsy) did all he could to get no votes. The company threatened to close shop and move overseas. Car windows were broken, tires were slashed. People at first liked what the union had to say, wanted the union. The company scared them all off. The vote went down. Funny part is though, that guy that helped the company get the no vote, his position was done away with afterwards and he lost is job. What a way to thank him for being to loyal to the company. I am UNION all the way and very proud of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Driver Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) furious2auto wrote: Still with me. I'm not with you and when you ask a question your sentence should end with a question mark not a period. Who are you trying to impress? You know, I have talked to salaried people like engineers, technicians, even supervisors who wish they could unionize because of the poor treatment they receive but they are afraid of being sacrificial lambs. Often they convince themselves that they were born to give their lives to a company. What a sad way to live. Oh yes many do want unions but upper management has intimidated them and they're afraid to speak up. If unions cease to exist you probably won't have the courage to admit it but you and the generations to follow would feel the negative impact. You don't make life better by running away from challenges. I am not convinced that the "public" has a dislike of unions. The people who own the meida do and if you are a pawn to the media then you believe whatever they tell you. When they own the information they can distort it all they want! Edited March 13, 2009 by Hard Driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 furious2auto wrote:I am not convinced that the "public" has a dislike of unions. The people who own the meida do and if you are a pawn to the media then you believe whatever they tell you. When they own the information they can distort it all they want! My friend lives next to a union rep at my plant. He has a bad perception of unions because he sees the rep come home everyday at noon. The thing is, the general public sees stuff like that and thinks all of us suck. I've talked to the union rep about it and he laughs. It's not funny- that's the shit we don't need. Fox News (FAUX news) hates unions, CNN is pro-union. The local stations in KC are split. you are right, the spin the media puts on the UAW and Ford employees can really put a boot up our ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Driver Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 When I was very young we lived in second floor flat. We had a milkman who had to walk up the stairs to deliver our milk which was in glass bottles. On more than one occasion he fell down the stairs breaking the bottles and making a pretty good mess. The reason he would fall was that he had a drinking problem. Even at 6 years old I new that all milkmen weren't drunks who fell down the stairs just because this one was. Why would an intelligent person base there opinion of an industry that employs thousands of good hard working people on one person who is a screw up?? I have my suspicions but I'm just not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatbaby Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Back a few years when rules were more relaxed. Union people were know to go out and sit at the bar(or wherever) and brag about getting paid while they are there. Not all of them did this of course, but enough. I knew a guy that worked for GM. He would go to work, punch in, turn around and walk out, to sit in the bar all day long and tell everyone he was doing this. Now people who have to go to work everyday and stay there in order to get paid, would be a little upset. And then you get the media saying we make $75 per hour. So they are thinking we make this money to do nothing. My brother-in-law is a doctor. He gets patients who are sitting in Gen, when they tell him they get paid good money to sit home, or sit somewhere playing cards all day just waiting for a job to come along, he really doesn't understand the whole concept. And then these people watch the media coverage on strikes, people think we are out there demanding more money. Step outside the union and look back in. We have given the wrong impression. Don't go around telling people what you make, it only upsets them and they think autos are so expensive because of our wages (that we don't earn of course). Oh and then lump all those benefits on top of it. People out there ask questions like...what make you think you are entitled to be taken care of for the rest of your life, just because you worked for a company for 30 years? Why do union people get free legal when the rest of the people have to pay out there nose for this service? (They don't know how bad our legal is) And so on, and so on... We should be educating the public on how the union has won so many things for the betterment of society. It isn't obvious to them anymore. Working conditions in every industry are better and the companies do this just to keep the union out. The public just doesn't understand where they and we have come from and how much good the union has done for everyone. We really need to find a way to educate them, but I think at this point they will just think we are trying to justify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 When I was very young we lived in second floor flat. We had a milkman who had to walk up the stairs to deliver our milk which was in glass bottles. On more than one occasion he fell down the stairs breaking the bottles and making a pretty good mess. The reason he would fall was that he had a drinking problem. Even at 6 years old I new that all milkmen weren't drunks who fell down the stairs just because this one was. Why would an intelligent person base there opinion of an industry that employs thousands of good hard working people on one person who is a screw up?? I have my suspicions but I'm just not sure. They just don't know any better. People judge all of us because of one bad apple, like you said, all we can do is educate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Driver Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 The public just doesn't understand where they and we have come from and how much good the union has done for everyone. We really need to find a way to educate them, but I think at this point they will just think we are trying to justify. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenhawkings Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 life is like a shit sandwich... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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