dozerman Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 call hr in dearborn and they said package was mailed out monday with all info needed to go from jsp to sub/unemployment. should get it thur or friday. this should apply to everyone in jsp. thanks from music city usa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 The sit down strike was illegal then just as it is now. But the UAW will not use illegal tactics because they are run by a group that is trying to do right. The problem is good guys finish last. Captain, I never said Gettlefinger or Bob took kickbacks and I never said they should take paycuts. I have always said they should be removed and the membership should have a one man one vote for these jobs. I am tired of the nepotism that runs our union and the only way to stop it is with a vote by all members. I believe Ron and Bob do the best they can, I also believe Jac Nassar did the best he could but we all know how his run ended. Let the membership decide if they are happy with their leaders. Sorry, I was not referring to you directly just tired of listening to people talk sht.....you indirectly do vote for them......you vote for the ones that vote for these positions....I think that we have beat that subject up enough..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDTRANSMAN Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 There must have been a gap in what you believe & what you heard. Bobby doesn't give bogus info. Everything I have heard him say has been played out like he said. I believe he is a Christian man that doesn't speak of what he doesn't believe to be true. Pulse is correct......Bob is very religious, I am sure you misunderstood Bob....he is correct about telling you..... one chance to accept, bump or lose benefits/pay.....that is the new language, but that is after you go through the hierarchy.....the hierarchy still exists!!! While it may be prossible that he did not explain what was currently in the agreement, he was only explaining the changes to the 2 offers! Trust me, there was no gap in communication. Dont take is as personal attack, but I myself believe you are the one that isn't quite clear on the language. Are you really saying that if you are offered an out of zone job offering in step 3 you can flat out turn it down the first time around without losing everything but call back rights? They then have to come back and offer it a second time (after they finish the heirarchy steps 4-8) before you can lose everything but call back rights? If what you are saying is true, I believe a clarification letter from IUAW is in order. I know exactly what I am reading, and I know exactly how it was explained at the meeting. Now if someone makes a bad decision based on bad info (lack of clarification) there will be hell to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Trust me, there was no gap in communication. Dont take is as personal attack, but I myself believe you are the one that isn't quite clear on the language. Are you really saying that if you are offered an out of zone job offering in step 3 you can flat out turn it down the first time around without losing everything but call back rights? They then have to come back and offer it a second time (after they finish the heirarchy steps 4-8) before you can lose everything but call back rights? If what you are saying is true, I believe a clarification letter from IUAW is in order. I know exactly what I am reading, and I know exactly how it was explained at the meeting. Now if someone makes a bad decision based on bad info (lack of clarification) there will be hell to pay. look.....it goes through the entire heirarchy before you get a true offer....same as before, but you were offered 2 offers....if you don't believe me then make a decision at step 3!! Damn, don't ask for info if you don't want to believe the answer! Ask your committee person, they should know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDTRANSMAN Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 look.....it goes through the entire heirarchy before you get a true offer....same as before, but you were offered 2 offers....if you don't believe me then make a decision at step 3!! Damn, don't ask for info if you don't want to believe the answer! Ask your committee person, they should know! Think about what you are saying. Read steps 5-8. Skilled volunteers to production, combined list of entry level emp's, rehire/new hire. They are going to run through the heirarchy before it is counted as a (true offer)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Think about what you are saying. Read steps 5-8. Skilled volunteers to production, combined list of entry level emp's, rehire/new hire. They are going to run through the heirarchy before it is counted as a (true offer)? Dude, this is what I posted yesterday........where in the fk in that post do you see combined list of entry level emp's, rehire/new hire... .....that still goes last on the heirarchy....so what 10 and 11?? Look when there is an opening in an out of zone plant.... 1st they will look to see if anyone has RTBU or section VIII article 1( right 2nd they will offer those in zone on ILO,closed plant return to area, active employees at locations with ILO, mandatory placement in zone 3rd Out of Zone ILO, active employees at locations with ILO 4th they will offer those at ACH 5th they will offer Ford plants in zone of employees on ILO 6th skilled trades volunteers for non skilled openings 7th corporate wide offers 8th skilled trades in zone force to production 9th out of zone offer with choice to take job, give up pay/benefits, or bump low man in zone not real sure on step 8, but pretty sure!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDTRANSMAN Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) As I stated before, I will believe it when I see it in writing from IUAW. Clarification letter needs to go out. I can only speak for what is actually written, and what was explained by King. Dude, this is what I posted yesterday........where in the fk in that post do you see combined list of entry level emp's, rehire/new hire... .....that still goes last on the heirarchy....so what 10 and 11?? Volume 1 Appendix N page 219-220. Im sorry I missed the part in the highlights package that said Captain is rewriting the contract. Funny King didn't mention that part either. What is written is the only thing that holds water. I can see the games being played already and nobody has a leg to stand on. Your contract books are worthless as you really have no idea as to what has been changed, your just gonna have to take their word for it. Interpretations of extremely vague language, he said she said, bullshit. Burn your books and pull out your highlights package, thats your new contract. You voted for it. I am sure the rules will be different for everybody. Try and file a grievance now. Edited March 19, 2009 by VDTRANSMAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 As I stated before, I will believe it when I see it in writing from IUAW. Clarification letter needs to go out.I can only speak for what is actually written, and what was explained by King. Volume 1 Appendix N page 219-220. Im sorry I missed the part in the highlights package that said Captain is rewriting the contract. Funny King didn't mention that part either. What is written is the only thing that holds water. I can see the games being played already and nobody has a leg to stand on. Your contract books are worthless as you really have no idea as to what has been changed, your just gonna have to take their word for it. Interpretations of extremely vague language, he said she said, bullshit. Burn your books and pull out your highlights package, thats your new contract. You voted for it. I am sure the rules will be different for everybody. Try and file a grievance now. Easter Monday is in writing, take the day off, it is in writing... ...You started out by saying that the only thing that holds water is what is written... ... then you go on to say burn the contract book because they don't mean shit!! There were no games played before, but now there will be ...huh... Not sure that there is anything that I can tell you that you will believe, so I will end the conversation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Trust me, there was no gap in communication. Dont take is as personal attack, but I myself believe you are the one that isn't quite clear on the language. Are you really saying that if you are offered an out of zone job offering in step 3 you can flat out turn it down the first time around without losing everything but call back rights? They then have to come back and offer it a second time (after they finish the heirarchy steps 4-8) before you can lose everything but call back rights? If what you are saying is true, I believe a clarification letter from IUAW is in order. I know exactly what I am reading, and I know exactly how it was explained at the meeting. Now if someone makes a bad decision based on bad info (lack of clarification) there will be hell to pay. No that is not what I'm saying. You WILL lose everything BUT call back rights if you don't choose to bump low man or take the out of zone job. You will have the length of time equal to your seniority or 18 months, whichever is greater, to be offered anything. The idea is not to keep re-soliciting. You will be at the end of the line. Good luck if you think the time between offers will be anything less than years. You turn it down again and you are completely DONE. Bye Bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) ??? Im not really sure what you are trying to say. It is my understanding (per King) that you can no longer turn down an out of zone offer without giving up everything but call back rights, or bumping low seniority in your zone. This would fall under step 3 of the actual placement hierarchy pg 220-221 volume 1. So yes you could be forced to take an out of zone job or bump low man before steps 4,5,6,7. One shot if its offered: take it, bump low man, or bye bye. Go back and re-read my original reply to YOU. It say's "Brutal but true". Tsquare was the one that I said had the gap. Edited March 19, 2009 by Pulse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDTRANSMAN Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Easter Monday is in writing, take the day off, it is in writing... ...You started out by saying that the only thing that holds water is what is written... ... then you go on to say burn the contract book because they don't mean shit!! There were no games played before, but now there will be ...huh... Not sure that there is anything that I can tell you that you will believe, so I will end the conversation! What good is the book if everything has changed? Where are the new books containing all the new language? According to you the placement heirarchy is no longer the same. According to King it is the same, step 3: take it, bump, or bye bye. And your correct, I did say the only thing that holds water is what is written. Which is exactly why contracturally binding clarification letters need to go out, as I have been saying all along. You know as in actual details. Actual language. Clarification. Make it up as you go is BS, thats how deals get cut and people get F***ED. Forgive me if I trust nobody, but thats the way it is. I dont like it when my livelihood is dependant on a hand shake and a wink. Put it in writing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDTRANSMAN Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Go back and re-read my original reply to YOU. It say's "Brutal but true". Tsquare was the one that I said had the gap. My bad. I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbass Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 As your union rep then.....that is what was told...wait til you see the temporary postings go up then.... care to decipher your reply,ive been waiting for someone to comment on my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 As your union rep then.....that is what was told...wait til you see the temporary postings go up then.... I'm wondering the same thing as fatbass. Snap out of it man, you've been battling the dark one too much, you seem to be sounding like him. Please clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 and that my friend is the most assinine thing i have ever heard of,move your feet,lose your seat.people left rawsonville 3 or 4 years ago when it was still a visteon plant,now that it is a ford plant again they wont be allowed back.most of the people left at raws. are from wixom,flatrock etc. how would you feel if you were originally from raws. and without a job right now and you have to go to dearborn as a temp. to cover somebody that willingly bid to saline as a temp. and can come back to dearborn and displace you when saline assignment is up When peolpe left the Raws 3 or 4 years ago it was a different story. They left because they felt like the ship was sinking and there was no language to allow them to "flow-back" because we were no longer a Ford facility. If these modifications had not passed I'm not so sure any of this would be happening right now. EVERYONE that was in JSP would have been on ILO sooner than they were. The MODS gave the IUAW the opportunity to be creative and put Ford people back into ACH (formerly Visteon) plants on a temporary loan along with back fills. Good enough answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbass Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) When peolpe left the Raws 3 or 4 years ago it was a different story. They left because they felt like the ship was sinking and there was no language to allow them to "flow-back" because we were no longer a Ford facility. If these modifications had not passed I'm not so sure any of this would be happening right now. EVERYONE that was in JSP would have been on ILO sooner than they were. The MODS gave the IUAW the opportunity to be creative and put Ford people back into ACH (formerly Visteon) plants on a temporary loan along with back fills. Good enough answer? allright pulse,you seem to have your hands around things others dont,i just went to ilo from jsp awaiting transfer to saline,so technicaly im on tlo awaitng transfer,there are alot of other people waitng to go to other plants also,anything being done to make this time not count against our sub allotment.also if i left raws. 3 years ago when it was visteon based on being told by the powers to be it would never be ford again and things werent looking good i would be pissed right now.the saline people that left under the same pretenses are now being allowed back as temps to return to new home plant when saline is up.bullshit,if they want to roll the dice and go back to saline that should be their new home plant and let the cards fall where they may,thats a chance they will have to decide if they want to take.but of course thats not the case.i just hope that something goes my way someday,because i still believe that until im working at saline or elsewhere that list dont mean shit Edited March 21, 2009 by fatbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 allright pulse,you seem to have your hands around things others dont,i just went to ilo from jsp awaiting transfer to saline,so technicaly im on tlo awaitng transfer,there are alot of other people waitng to go to other plants also,anything being done to make this time not count against our sub allotment.also if i left raws. 3 years ago when it was visteon based on being told by the powers to be it would never be ford again and things werent looking good i would be pissed right now.the saline people that left under the same pretenses are now being allowed back as temps to return to new home plant when saline is up.bullshit,if they want to roll the dice and go back to saline that should be their new home plant and let the cards fall where they may,thats a chance they will have to decide if they want to take.but of course thats not the case.i just hope that something goes my way someday,because i still believe that until im working at saline or elsewhere that list dont mean shit The deal is done and the weeks will count against your allotment. I ain't being a smart ass, just blunt. On your second point; I'd be pissed too if I had transffered. The big problem with that is, I only heard the "rumors" telling folks to leave. It all depended on how the individuals perceived the situation. The the third mention is that was covered under a different agreement. When you hear the term "living document", be careful this is what happens. Even if you have less than ten years, or 26 weeks, there shouldn't be a problem with you getting to Saline in pretty good shape. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) What good is the book if everything has changed? Where are the new books containing all the new language? According to you the placement heirarchy is no longer the same. According to King it is the same, step 3: take it, bump, or bye bye. And your correct, I did say the only thing that holds water is what is written. Which is exactly why contracturally binding clarification letters need to go out, as I have been saying all along. You know as in actual details. Actual language. Clarification. Make it up as you go is BS, thats how deals get cut and people get F***ED. Forgive me if I trust nobody, but thats the way it is. I dont like it when my livelihood is dependant on a hand shake and a wink. Put it in writing! Hey Brother, the new things are in writing. There is a post of the language on here if you don't already have them. That is what we will get for the life of the agreement. It was printed and passed out at the leadership meeting. I'm not trying to throw water on your fire, but it is available. It would cost a fortune to print all new books. Edited March 21, 2009 by Pulse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SU-FI Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 so how about the new rumor that people that went from JSP to ILO even the ones like myself could be getting forced to chicago because supposedly they are adding 1200 people.. our chairman had told us in JSP that we couldnt be forced out of saline, but we're not at saline yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 so how about the new rumor that people that went from JSP to ILO even the ones like myself could be getting forced to chicago because supposedly they are adding 1200 people.. our chairman had told us in JSP that we couldnt be forced out of saline, but we're not at saline yet. Yes you can be forced out of Saline...it is a temp job opening, not saying that it would happen, but as jobs are needed at a Ford facility people will be moved back oout of Saline.....again, this is only a temp. placeholder for traditional blue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SU-FI Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Yes you can be forced out of Saline...it is a temp job opening, not saying that it would happen, but as jobs are needed at a Ford facility people will be moved back oout of Saline.....again, this is only a temp. placeholder for traditional blue! so basically i signed up for saline out of jsp at rawsonville.. and i can be forced somewhere other then my home plant? even if i'm working at saline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 so basically i signed up for saline out of jsp at rawsonville.. and i can be forced somewhere other then my home plant? even if i'm working at saline? The only way that could remotely happen is if ALL the ILO's are placed AND Saline closes or is sold AND there are NO openings at home. You will be coming back to the RAW's. I think that because of our volumes, Ford would have to come out with a "buy 1 get 2 free offer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 so basically i signed up for saline out of jsp at rawsonville.. and i can be forced somewhere other then my home plant? even if i'm working at saline? yup...you are in a spot temporarily...if there are openings at Ford they will fill them with those temp. placed at Saline....unless there are others on ILO, they will be placed first and then temps!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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