gocash Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) I personally believe that Scott and Dennis will do the best they can for STAP,I have confidence in them. However, I am totally pissed at CAW NATIONAL and I'll tell you why: CAW National publicly offers Ford the same concessionary deal that GM recently agreed to,knowing that CAW Local 1520 Union Leaders(STAP) oppose giving Ford any concessions without commitment for the future at STAP....We gave concessions less than a year ago for a 1 year reprieve to get us to 2011.(we live to fight another day,as it was explained to us at ratification)...GM was forced to give concessions because of gov't stipulations to receive gov't financial assistance.Chrysler,well they are fucked anyway,they either merge with another company or file for bankruptcy.....Ford on the other hand has vowed not to use gov't assistance during this financial economic credit crisis....Another year extension does STAP no good whatsoever,the employees need to know what STAPs fate is from Ford...It is CAW Nationals responsibility to do whats best for it's members...They should demand Ford publicly announce it's intentions with STAP one way or the other....CAW National should be discussing severance packages and an open buy-out system at STAP with Ford...NOT CONCESSIONS...The UAW secured in their latest contract with Ford a clause that states any new products introduced by Ford in the future will be discussed with UAW/FORD and they will be given first priority in the US going forward....Which basically means STAP isn't getting any new product in the future folks...CAW knowing this, should be SECURING severance packages for all remaining STAP workers,and this should be announced to all the "hopefuls" at STAP before any ratification process that gives concessions....CAW NATIONAL should be demanding that Ford offer an open buyout system at STAP equal to GM Truck plants severance package of last year...As workers take these buyouts they could be replaced with willing laid- off members from Windsor as needed.....The CAW National needs to recognize and publicly acknowledge the fact that the UAW and it's 2 tier wage structure will always be to the UAWs advantage going forward.As people are "bought-out" or retire in US they will be replaced with $14/hour new hires,which in turn will be constantly lowering their average labor costs for Ford going forward...We can not compete with this wage structure without always having to be brought back to the negotiating table to give more concessions.That is a fact,and will be proven over time...PATTERN BARGAINING is OUTDATED in this financial situation and needs to be broken for the time being...It works when all companies are making gains but not when companies are severely failing....Ford is at least a couple of years ahead of the other two companies in this restructuring,and everyone has suffered but it had to be done...Mulally says FORD going forward is going to be a "powerhouse" with it's exciting new line-up of future vehicles....Yet, no mention of anything for the future, for any of the vehicles we produce at STAP....CAW NATIONAL NEEDS TO WAKE UP,BEFORE THE ENTIRE AUTO INDUSTRY HAS LEFT CANADA....Our Canadian gov't is at fault also,don't get me wrong.There needs to be an auto pact once again...CAW National should be doing everything it possibly can for STAP,either commitment from Ford or secured lucrative severance packages for STAP workers, not publicly offering concessions to Ford giving the impression that CAW members actually are willing to give them for nothing. Edited April 6, 2009 by gocash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaah Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Now we just need to send the above to Ken, Scott, Mulally and post it on every bulletin board at the plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocash Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Now we just need to send the above to Ken, Scott, Mulally and post it on every bulletin board at the plant. Go ahead Jaah,print it off and post it wherever or hand it out to whoever wants to read it at the plant.You have my permission,I'm sure it will be known by many where it originated from anyway.If I was currently "active" I would do it myself but at this time I am presently in the "not active" status,and am not reporting to STAP on a daily basis....gocash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEagle Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I personally believe that Scott and Dennis will do the best they can for STAP,they have my confidence.However I am totally pissed at CAW NATIONAL and I'll tell you why:CAW National publicly offers Ford the same concessionary deal that GM recently agreed to,knowing that CAW Local 1520 Union Leaders(STAP) oppose giving Ford any concessions without commitment for the future at STAP....We gave concessions less than a year ago for a 1 year reprieve to get us to 2011.(we live to fight another day,as it was explained to us at ratification)...GM was forced to give concessions because of gov't stipulations to receive gov't financial assistance.Chrysler,well they are fucked anyway,they either merge with another company or file for bankruptcy.....Ford on the hand has vowed not to use gov't assistance during this financial economic credit crisis....Another year extension does STAP no good whatsoever,the employees need to know what STAPs fate is from Ford...It is CAW Nationals responsibility to do whats best for it's members...They should demand Ford publicly announce it's intentions with STAP one way or the other....CAW National should be discussing severance packages and an open buy-out system at STAP with Ford...NOT CONCESSIONS...The UAW secured in their latest contract with Ford a clause that states any new products introduced by Ford in the future will be discussed with UAW/FORD and they will be given first priority in the US going forward....Which basically means STAP isn't getting any new product in the future folks...CAW knowing this, should be SECURING severance packages for all remaining STAP workers,and this should be announced to all the "hopefuls" at STAP before any ratification process that gives concessions....CAW NATIONAL should be demanding that Ford offer an open buyout system at STAP equal to GM Truck plants severance package of last year...As workers take these buyouts they could be replaced with willing laid- off members from Windsor as needed.....The CAW National needs to recognize and publicly acknowledge the fact that the UAW and it's 2 tier wage structure will always be to the UAWs advantage going forward.As people are "bought-out" or retire in US they will be replaced with $14/hour new hires,which in turn will be constantly lowering their average labor costs for Ford going forward...We can not compete with this wage structure without always having to be brought back to the negotiating table to give more concessions.That is a fact,and will be proven over time...PATTERN BARGAINING is OUTDATED in this financial situation and needs to be broken for the time being...It works when all companies are making gains but not when companies are severely failing....Ford is at least a couple of years ahead of the other two companies in this restructuring,and everyone has suffered but it had to be done...Mulally says FORD going forward is going to be a "powerhouse" with it's exciting new line-up of future vehicles....Yet, no mention of anything for any future of vehicles we produce at STAP....CAW NATIONAL NEEDS TO WAKE UP,BEFORE THE ENTIRE AUTO INDUSTRY HAS LEFT CANADA....Our Canadian gov't is at fault also,don't get me wrong.There needs to be an auto pact once again...CAW National should be doing everything it possibly can for STAP,either commitment from Ford or secured lucrative severance packages for STAP workers, not publicly offering concessions to Ford giving the impression that CAW members actually are willing to give them for nothing. We should all be one union again! We were stronger that way! I remember the 70's and even the 80's. We would all be much better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 We should all be one union again! We were stronger that way! I remember the 70's and even the 80's. We would all be much better off. amen......who in the fk ever thought we would be stronger divided?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 amen......who in the fk ever thought we would be stronger divided?? In 1984, the Canadian section of the UAW, under the leadership of Bob White and his assistants Buzz Hargrove and Bob Nickerson, broke from the UAW, lead by Owen Bieber, because the American union was seen as giving away too much in the way of concessions during collective bargaining LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 LINK No offense, but Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time. It's not a real source of information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 No offense, but Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time. It's not a real source of information. Then read THIS. It says, in many more words, what the Wiki article states. It was the Canadians decision to split from the UAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocash Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) LINK The challenge today wasn't caused by the CAW separating from the UAW back in the 80s,at that time it clearly needed to be done.The problem we have now is the company is able to pit the 2 autoworker unions against each other to find out who will give up the most.It has backfired on the CAW since they offered Ford a deal to invest in a sister plant beside STAP with Magna Corp. as a partner,to produce small fuel efficient vehicles.The deal CAW offered to Ford included a 2 tier wage structure for the new hires at the new sister plant.Once the UAW obtained a copy of this proposal by the CAW to Ford they decided to implement the 2 tier wage structure in the U.S....and so it has begun,THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM....God help us all. Edited April 4, 2009 by gocash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allford1 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Question...over time as STAP production slows down and people are layed off...will layed off people get severence, if not there is another point to fight for. Ford can do gradual layoffs and offset severence cost. Just asking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocash Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) Question...over time as STAP production slows down and people are layed off...will layed off people get severence, if not there is another point to fight for. Ford can do gradual layoffs and offset severence cost. Just asking Good point,but with an OPEN BUY-OUT policy in place ,I don't believe that anyone would technically be laid-off.They would be offered a severance package or buy-out by seniority....gocash Edited April 5, 2009 by gocash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfinger4 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 http://www.windsorstar.com/Cars/Duncan+ple...2359/story.html I think someone from 1520 better get on the phone to Dwight Duncan...He can personally save the Chrysler minivan plant, then why the hell can't he save Talbotville? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvnascar Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 from a news article........ "For Ford, which has not asked for government loans, legacy costs are the main target in its effort to keep building vehicles at its two Ontario plants in Oakville and St.Thomas. Ford of Canada has to sell 15,000 new cars and trucks each year just to cover the cost of funding its legacy liabilities, the equivalent of roughly one month worth of sales volume. Its 11,820 hourly retirees outnumber its active workers two to one, outlining the scope of the challenge." I have no idea if Ford is particularly worried about its pensioners or not. But if the article is true, it seems to me that concessions from pensioners (already retired as well as future retirees) could be used as bait for that future new product.....or at least a sizable extension of CV/GM production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allford1 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Good point,but with an OPEN BUY-OUT policy in place ,I don't believe that anyone would be technically be laid-off.They would be offered a severance package or buy-out by seniority....gocash Thanks for the info, would it not be wise to get some local union clarification on this, this is no time to leave stones unturned. Last thing people need is more surprises. Now is probably STAPs last chance to present any type of proposal. With national telling Ford they will get more from CAW, I feel that you are being walked on a plank. To me, with Oakville getting the flex product, the CAW has bargained for this at the expense of STAP. Just my thoughts. I do think you will need the Oakville locals help to get National to help STAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocash Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Thanks for the info, would it not be wise to get some local union clarification on this, this is no time to leave stones unturned. Last thing people need is more surprises. Now is probably STAPs last chance to present any type of proposal. With national telling Ford they will get more from CAW, I feel that you are being walked on a plank. To me, with Oakville getting the flex product, the CAW has bargained for this at the expense of STAP. Just my thoughts. I do think you will need the Oakville locals help to get National to help STAP. Allford,let me be clear about my comments.I'm only stating my opinion of what we should be trying to accomplish as a Local union,I have no idea what is being discussed or negotiated.I'm only trying to share ideas with anyone who reads my comments,and hopefully it will spread to others and people can make a good decision when it comes time to vote on any agreement.This could very well be our last contract for STAP,we need to make sure we are as protected as we can be for ourselves.I have no hidden agenda,I'm not a union rep nor am I vying for an elected union position this spring.....gocash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky1520 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 People who were paid alot more than us, with more education and alot more information, already told us less than a year ago what we needed to do to be competitive. The slide show, pamphlets, BLAH BLAH BLAH. Both the company and the union negotiated our early new agreement. Now less than a year into our new contract the same suit and ties are telling us what we have to do to be cost competitive. So when do they stop? When do we stop?? Time for us to be smart enough and say go to hell unless we have new product in writing. STAP has been given the shaft as it stands right now. Just my opinion, and hopefully the majority of yours too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allford1 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Allford,let me be clear about my comments.I'm only stating my opinion of what we should be trying to accomplish as a Local union,I have no idea what is being discussed or negotiated.I'm only trying to share ideas with anyone who reads my comments,and hopefully it will spread to others and people can make a good decision when it comes time to vote on any agreement.This could very well be our last contract for STAP,we need to make sure we are as protected as we can be for ourselves.I have no hidden agenda,I'm not a union rep nor am I vying for an elected union position this spring.....gocash I understand gocash, that is all I am doing is sharing ideas. I hope you get new product but I agree, you need to protect yourselves and this is the time to do it. The BIGGER the voice the LOUDER the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stapelec Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) Sounds like our negotiating team has been called to Toronto!!!! And so it begins........Will he hold firm or will he cave..... I was mistaken, apparently it was just another information meeting. Ford still hasn't approached the CAW yet. Edited April 7, 2009 by stapelec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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