End of the Line in 2011?

[armadamaster]

But that would run counter to the master plan............which is to continue to kill demand for the Panther carline and allow it to die a slow death.

 

Touche'

 

You can't kill what isn't there any more. Not only is the Panther not selling any more (in comparison to even several years ago) but none of its RWD competitors - foreign or domestic - is selling. How do you think it would have been possible for Ford to continue selling the car in the current market even if the car had been updated?

 

That's because it's been the master plan for the better part of this decade. Who have thought never updating, never advertising, never marketing, and never stocking a car might just eventually lead to a decline in sales?

[nelsonlu]

You can't kill what isn't there any more. Not only is the Panther not selling any more (in comparison to even several years ago) but none of its RWD competitors - foreign or domestic - is selling. How do you think it would have been possible for Ford to continue selling the car in the current market even if the car had been updated?

 

(As a semi-aside, the Hyundai Genesis is hardly a great sales success at all - but the Geneses that have been selling effectively cannibalized the Azera sales such that Hyundai sold only 313 Azeras last month after selling 1745 in June 2008. Perhaps that strategy still works for Hyundai; it wouldn't for Ford.)

 

 

That's because it's been the master plan for the better part of this decade. Who have thought never updating, never advertising, never marketing, and never stocking a car might just eventually lead to a decline in sales?

 

That's a non sequitor. If that's the case, the Panther's RWD competitors should sell well - and none of them is. Indeed, despite all of the marketing put into it, the Genesis really isn't selling either. I'm sure that Pontiac introduced the G8 with intent to steal the Grand Marquis's market - and failed miserably because you can't steal what doesn't exist anymore.

 

The Panther's Achilles' heel is its bad fuel economy - something it shares with its dying/dead competitors -and no marketing/updating could have solved that.

Edited July 12, 2009 by nelsonlu

[armadamaster]

That's a non sequitor. If that's the case, the Panther's RWD competitors should sell well - and none of them is. Indeed, despite all of the marketing put into it, the Genesis really isn't selling either. I'm sure that Pontiac introduced the G8 with intent to steal the Grand Marquis's market - and failed miserably because you can't steal what doesn't exist anymore.

 

The Panther's Achilles' heel is its bad fuel economy - something it shares with its dying/dead competitors -and no marketing/updating could have solved that.

 

Chrysler's LX platform is targeted more at the Panthers than the Gran Prix esque styling G8. Chrysler sold a ton of LXs before last years high gas prices and this years bankruptcy FAIL.

 

Fullsize cars will never be market leaders again, but there is a segment there for them.

[NickF1011]

Should have offered a 30th anniversary edition Marquis or SOMETHING for 2009, they can manage to crank out a prostate cancer Mustang or some nonsense like that every other month.

 

People actually DESIRE special edition Mustangs. Who the heck other than a few folks on message boards are clamoring for special edition Panthers?

 

Ford tried the special edition Panther thing a few years back. It was called Marauder. Nobody bought it.

[CanadaSVT]

People actually DESIRE special edition Mustangs. Who the heck other than a few folks on message boards are clamoring for special edition Panthers?

 

Ford tried the special edition Panther thing a few years back. It was called Marauder. Nobody bought it.

 

I bought it and love it. And I can fit 3 people in the back seat, that's 3 more than my old Cobra.

[NickF1011]

I bought it and love it. And I can fit 3 people in the back seat, that's 3 more than my old Cobra.

 

And Ford hopes you and the other 6 people who own them are happy. :yup:

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, I liked the Marauder quite a bit when it came out. But frankly, even a supercharged 5.4 wouldn't be enough to entice me to buy a Panther now. Six years ago? Quite possibly.

Edited July 13, 2009 by NickF1011

[Bored of Pisteon]

That's a non sequitor. If that's the case, the Panther's RWD competitors should sell well - and none of them is. Indeed, despite all of the marketing put into it, the Genesis really isn't selling either. I'm sure that Pontiac introduced the G8 with intent to steal the Grand Marquis's market - and failed miserably because you can't steal what doesn't exist anymore.

 

The Panther's Achilles' heel is its bad fuel economy - something it shares with its dying/dead competitors -and no marketing/updating could have solved that.

 

Bad fuel economy? Sorry, but for a vehicle that size that gets on average 28 mpg on the highway. I think it's suitable. Go ahead and drive your little Honda fartmobile if you wish. But when the law of averages catches up with you. We'll see who will walk away in an accident first.

[Bored of Pisteon]

People actually DESIRE special edition Mustangs. Who the heck other than a few folks on message boards are clamoring for special edition Panthers?

 

Ford tried the special edition Panther thing a few years back. It was called Marauder. Nobody bought it.

 

DESIRE is in the eye of the beholder! And that's with any vehicle.

[NickF1011]

DESIRE is in the eye of the beholder! And that's with any vehicle.

 

Retail sales of the Panther show that the DESIRE is not there. Would some people buy it? Of course. Some people even bought the Aztek though.

[Topgun]

Retail sales of the Panther show that the DESIRE is not there. Would some people buy it? Of course. Some people even bought the Aztek though.

Ford killed the retail sale of the panther,might be why there is no DESIRE....NICK!

[nelsonlu]

Bad fuel economy? Sorry, but for a vehicle that size that gets on average 28 mpg on the highway. I think it's suitable. Go ahead and drive your little Honda fartmobile if you wish. But when the law of averages catches up with you. We'll see who will walk away in an accident first.

 

Only in a world of fantasy, devoid of any attachment to reality, does a Panther average 28 MPG highway.

 

And I've never bought or leased a Honda, as you should have been able to tell. Indeed, I loved the Grand Marquis as a great car - but its time has past. I feel just as secure in my Fusion Hybrid, thank you.

 

Besides, you're ignoring the real issue here: would the general public buy Panthers if they had been updated? The answer is clearly "no," given that no large RWD car is selling well. It's not just the Panther. Whether the public should buy them is irrelevant; they will not buy them.

 

And resorting to personal attacks doesn't help your argument; it merely shows that you have no logical argument at all.

Edited July 15, 2009 by nelsonlu

[armadamaster]

Only in a world of fantasy, devoid of any attachment to reality, does a Panther average 28 MPG highway.

 

Feel free to visit http://www.crownvic.net. There are multiple Panther owners over there who have reported just that number MPG HWY and I am sure would love to be called liars.

 

And I've never bought or leased a Honda, as you should have been able to tell. Indeed, I loved the Grand Marquis as a great car - but its time has past. I feel just as secure in my Fusion Hybrid, thank you.

 

The GMQ is as dated as Ford makes it. And the GMQ is the safer car over a Fusion anyday of the week.

 

Besides, you're ignoring the real issue here: would the general public buy Panthers if they had been updated? The answer is clearly "no," given that no large RWD car is selling well. It's not just the Panther. Whether the public should buy them is irrelevant; they will not buy them.

 

You don't know that, since the Panther has not been updated. It can be argued since the Charger/300 were so popular until just last year that a 427 design inspired Panther might have just as easily boosted interested in the platform at that time and forward.

[nelsonlu]

Feel free to visit http://www.crownvic.net. There are multiple Panther owners over there who have reported just that number MPG HWY and I am sure would love to be called liars.

 

Perhaps not liars, but I'll say that it's more likely than not a combination of wishful and delusional thinking, combined with a failure to track actual performance. Besides, if they're resorting to extreme hypermiling techniques to achieve that, they'd get even better results out of the Taurus, I'm sure.

 

The GMQ is as dated as Ford makes it. And the GMQ is the safer car over a Fusion anyday of the week.

 

So, take your pick; you really mean go tell me that an unupdated Panther is still safer than a Fusion that has 1) BLIS; 2) backup camera; 3) 911 assist; and 4) electronic stability control, all of which the Panther lacks? (And no, "Ford could have added them" is not an answer since that would be changing your premise of "still safer than Fusion."). And assuming that Ford is able to add them, the car would be immediately priced out of its current market; it'd be as expensive, if not more so, than an MKS.

[rscalzo]

28 mpg??? Maybe under rare and limited circumstances. But in the real world of combined city/highway 16 to 17 is the norm. We operated a fleet of 20 and gas mileage was tracked. Ours was city driving and the car is far from economical to run. Few run at a highway mode forever. even our state police who run the turnpike and parkway don't get that mileage. Taking one isolated instance and trying to make it the norm is fooling no one. The public has moved on. Few will buy a car designed and stuck in the 90's. The public wants the newest and most technologically advanced. That's why people line up around the block for a cell phone.

 

The main users of the CV have started to move on. Ford sales in NJ have fallen to only 50 percent of the LE fleet sales. At one point they were in the high 80's. Users have warmed to the charger as did the municipalities financial officers. The day has come to put it to rest. Either come up with something suitable to replace it of move over. Nothing lasts forever.

[NickF1011]

Ford killed the retail sale of the panther,might be why there is no DESIRE....NICK!

 

One certainly preceded the other, but you have it backwards. The only reason the Crown Victoria is no longer sold retail is because there wasn't enough demand to justify it anymore. Ford is in business to make money. If the Crown Victoria still brought in enough money through the retail pipeline to justify the flooring and marketing costs then it would still be available. The GMQ is still available retail for now, and it still sells at a snail's pace.

Edited July 15, 2009 by NickF1011

[Topgun]

One certainly preceded the other, but you have it backwards. The only reason the Crown Victoria is no longer sold retail is because there wasn't enough demand to justify it anymore. Ford is in business to make money. If the Crown Victoria still brought in enough money through the retail pipeline to justify the flooring and marketing costs then it would still be available. The GMQ is still available retail for now, and it still sells at a snail's pace.

No you have it wrong Nick,when the D3's came out that's where the advertising dollars went. Lets not update the panthers or let the dealers stock them . You know they would make money on them,if they were updated , re-skinned , marketed , advertised and sold retail ...also the demand would return.

[nelsonlu]

No you have it wrong Nick,when the D3's came out that's where the advertising dollars went. Lets not update the panthers or let the dealers stock them . You know they would make money on them,if they were updated , re-skinned , marketed , advertised and sold retail ...also the demand would return.

 

Is there any sedan selling well in the United States - or, for that matter, in any nation that's not an OPEC member - that gets less than 24 MPG combined per EPA rating, let alone as low as the Panthet's 18? I sure can't think of one.

[NickF1011]

No you have it wrong Nick,when the D3's came out that's where the advertising dollars went. Lets not update the panthers or let the dealers stock them . You know they would make money on them,if they were updated , re-skinned , marketed , advertised and sold retail ...also the demand would return.

 

Advertising for the Panthers dried up looooong before the D3's were launched. The only Panther ad I recall seeing anytime in the past 15 years was briefly during the launch of the Marauder. And that ad campaign disappeared as quickly as it appeared. We're not going down this road of "ifs" again. "If only they gave it all new sheet metal." "If only they gave it new powertrains. "If only they advertised them." "If only they came stuffed with $25,000 in small bills in the glovebox." It didn't happen. So there's no sense debating it.

Edited July 16, 2009 by NickF1011

[rscalzo]

Out of the four Ford/Lincoln/Merc. dealers in this are with a combined total of about six hundred cars on their lots, there is only one Panther body in stock. That tends to tell you what they expect from sales of that model. As far as advertising, beyond fleet/LE ads, there have been none. I'd say most outside of the LE/taxi users even know it is still in production..

[taxman100]

While I'm not saying the car is in huge demand, typically during the summer inventory always dries up, as the last vehicles produced for the outgoing model year are typically fleet vehicles, and the first for the next model year is typically fleet. The dealers around here only have about a half dozen Town Cars, and only 3-4 Grand Marquis in stock. Not that it bothers me, as I'll order my next one.

 

That's why if you want to order one, the worst time is when you want a summer delivery, because then you'll have to listen to your sales people tell you why wait when we can get you into a Sable right away.......

[NickF1011]

That's why if you want to order one, the worst time is when you want a summer delivery, because then you'll have to listen to your sales people tell you why wait when we can get you into a car that wasn't designed before most of Ford's customers were born right away.......

 

Just razzin'. Couldn't resist though. :D

[rscalzo]

during the summer inventory always dries up

 

There never was any inventory to dry up. Few dealers keep fleet cars in stock.

 

This was during March when I bought my Escape. The only dealer I've ever seem with one or more has been the two that hold the NJ State contracts. One dealer now is split 50/50 with CV and Chargers.

 

I can hope that the plant finds another product to replace the CV production with as they did make a quality product. Unfortunately is is dated and no longer competitive in today's market. I don't see gas at the current levels too much longer. As soon as it starts climbing, everyone will be once again clamoring for the gas efficient smaller cars.

Edited July 17, 2009 by rscalzo

[WC-MAN]

AFAIK, Panthers are order only items at LM dealers. In other words, they don't keep them on the lots. Until the ready supply of program cars dries up, its very unlikely that the car will be a big seller on the lots new regardless of its popularity.

 

Hardly unusual. Prior to gas going up, most US brand dealers had a lot of new trucks and SUV's on the lot, and few cars since the used lot was full of program cars that were 1-2 years old and almost 1/2 price. Only after gas went up did the "new car herd" get interested in looking for cars.

[NickF1011]

AFAIK, Panthers are order only items at LM dealers. In other words, they don't keep them on the lots.

 

Was at a Lincoln-Mercury dealer twice this week. They had plenty of Town Cars and GM's on the lot. They were basically hidden behind all the new Milans, MKZ's. and MKS's, but they were there. :lol:

[twintornados]

Here is an idea that I am certain will draw the ire of Panther fans...

 

When Grand Marquis goes out of production on the Panther chassis, Ford should intro a 4-6 inch stretch version of Taurus with styling cues from Mercury and bring it out as Marquis, dropping the "Grand" from the name. This would be the car that competes with Lucerne, Avalon, 300 Touring, etc etc...

Edited July 31, 2009 by twintornados