SiCKO

[jerrymaker]

People that belittle others by saying .......you need to educate yourself..... or get over it..... need to grow up and stop acting as if they are on the schoolyard.

 

 

obama, take note....

[jerrymaker]

Unfortunately health care reform is dead....Special interest were successful in its defeat, the power of lobbyist is a force! The US cannot continue at this rate, last person out turn off the lights Time to close this topic................

 

 

the lobbists did not win, the AMERICAN PEOPLE won, it's time the dems and reps listen to the middle class, US!!!!!!

[Furious1Auto]

I can pay my employees and provide minimal health coverage. I could also lose 4 workers, improve benefits for the remaining guys, and outsource my customer service to India. There is a trade off.

 

Sounds like a threat. If you can out source your labor and know it, the odds are you already intend to, so health-care is not the issue at all. Good luck with non-english speaking people handling your customer service LOL! As for my moving business, I don't currently employ anyone full time because business is not steady enough, I pull from a few different workers who can cover the work when available. I do however pay my workers better per hour then the primary carriers for performing the same work. While charging my customers less. Yes, when I do have steady enough business to employ someone full time I intend on offering them coverage. I'm not tying to manipulate to save on medical insurance either, I cannot work them steadily enough to ask someone to work for me full time. As an employer not only is it my responsibility to keep my people working, but to also not to over staff, and risk having to lay people off.

 

As it is I will have to layoff every winter anyway during the slow season, but I won't be trying to skate in paying unemployment benefits either! That is my responsibility also!

[Marginal Economist]

Sounds like a threat. If you can out source your labor and know it, the odds are you already intend to, so health-care is not the issue at all. Good luck with non-english speaking people handling your customer service LOL! As for my moving business, I don't currently employ anyone full time because business is not steady enough, I pull from a few different workers who can cover the work when available. I do however pay my workers better per hour then the primary carriers for performing the same work. While charging my customers less. Yes, when I do have steady enough business to employ someone full time I intend on offering them coverage. I'm not tying to manipulate to save on medical insurance either, I cannot work them steadily enough to ask someone to work for me full time. As an employer not only is it my responsibility to keep my people working, but to also not to over staff, and risk having to lay people off.

 

As it is I will have to layoff every winter anyway during the slow season, but I won't be trying to skate in paying unemployment benefits either! That is my responsibility also!

Good post, but I do have a couple of questions. Why do you pay better and charge your customers less? I understand building traffic and disconting as a promotion or to increase volume, and paying a little more than market value to attract talent if you are a new venture. If you had the additional margin, could you have a full time employee?

 

And if the employee had a choice between additional pay or medical coverage - what would he/she choose? Why not give the employee the benefit money and let them find their own plan? Why does an employer get to choose the medical coverage their employee recieves? I'm a big fan of posted prices and possibly the insurance exchange proposals to give more consumers educated choices.

[Trimdingman]

As long as there is a middle man or third party, such as the government or an insurance company between you and your health care, costs will remain high and out of reach of the majority, and will have to be paid collectively. This system makes the government or whoever is running it, plus the practitioners happy, as they have a lot of power over the subjects. As long as they are being looked after, nothing will change, and you will pay. Look at the auto industry. A thousand or so assembly line workers build 500 cars on a shift, adding perhaps $2000 to the cost of a car. Compare that kind of efficiency to the medical profession. If we worked like they do, a car would cost ten million dollars. If they were forced to become efficient, and bring their fees in line with what individual people could afford to pay, like the auto industry is forced to do, there would be no need for health insurance or government involvement. The first heart transplant was a miracle. Now the procedure is known, and merely has to be followed. It should be less and less expensive as efficiencies are discovered. Computers are now available for a few hundred dollars, where they used to cost thousands. My father paid a months wages for our first black and white TV. Now you can buy color for a day's pay. It should be the same with health care, but it will never happen under a collective system.

[napfirst]

Sounds like a threat. If you can out source your labor and know it, the odds are you already intend to, so health-care is not the issue at all. Good luck with non-english speaking people handling your customer service LOL! As for my moving business, I don't currently employ anyone full time because business is not steady enough, I pull from a few different workers who can cover the work when available. I do however pay my workers better per hour then the primary carriers for performing the same work. While charging my customers less. Yes, when I do have steady enough business to employ someone full time I intend on offering them coverage. I'm not tying to manipulate to save on medical insurance either, I cannot work them steadily enough to ask someone to work for me full time. As an employer not only is it my responsibility to keep my people working, but to also not to over staff, and risk having to lay people off.

 

As it is I will have to layoff every winter anyway during the slow season, but I won't be trying to skate in paying unemployment benefits either! That is my responsibility also!

Having been a small business person for many years, I have a few suspicions about your business model ........you say your prices are lower than you competitors...then I would think that in tough economic times like we are experiencing you'd be flush with cutomers........begs a question

[Furious1Auto]

Having been a small business person for many years, I have a few suspicions about your business model ........you say your prices are lower than you competitors...then I would think that in tough economic times like we are experiencing you'd be flush with cutomers........begs a question

 

 

Then you don't know much about the moving industry. It tappers in the fall, and picks up in the spring. There are two major markets that we service. The elderly or people too old to be physically able to do the work, and the wealthy that buy furniture that god couldn't move. (Like Grand pianos) That is where I come in, I can not only get the job done right, but if there is any damage to your furniture it is covered by my insurance. Think about it, you spent $10,000 on your bed set, would you want a couple of friends over feeling like their wasting a Saturday when they could be cooking out instead moving your furniture?

 

I went into the business using money I had gotten from an investment, and the company was liquid from day one. The people already in the business already have overhead with the lease payments on their truck, and all of their additional costs. When I do a job, I can afford to undercut anyone in town. However I'm not going to do the work for the least amount I can, because I would be cutting the rate on every company locally. I know the billing rates for all of my competitors, and I come in a little less then they do, while I provide the same quality work. I also buy packing material from my competitors suppliers. The difference is that I have my truck paid for, and I am not only smart enough to buy used equipment, but I also have the knowledge to maintain it.

 

The problem with the entire industry, and with every carrier to include Allied (Which is the largest) Because of the decline in the economy everyone is experiencing volume losses. I did see rapid growth last summer, but my advertisement didn't get into the book till Oct. The money is still there, but it is not steady enough. I pay for the work performed by the hour, but if there is a day that there is no work I'm not paying pay role on people who are not working. One of the men I have working for me, has benefits through his regular employer, and likes to make extra money, and another is off school in the summer while getting medical through his parents. He is the only one he knows his age making $15.00 to move furniture. If I could match the hours my number 1 mover gets at his primary job, then I would ask him on full time. He worked for Mills van lines for years, and he knows how to do the job safely, and without damage.

 

It would be better if it was just built into our taxes, and it was one less worry. However I do agree with the sentiment that "As long as a third party is involved, we can be extorted." However I'd rather it be the government, at least government policy can be changed by a vote. Either through lobbying for change, or by voting the dumb fucks out of office.

 

Who gets to vote on insurance companies policies, rates, and management?

 

Don't insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their share holders to turn a profit? No such responsibility placed on the government. They provide the same service to the public minus profit. And they also have more bargaining power over drug, and service providers!

Edited January 30, 2010 by Furious1Auto

[Marginal Economist]

 

Who gets to vote on insurance companies policies, rates, and management?

 

 

Ideally, the consumer would vote with their pocketbook. That is the system I've been pushing for.

[Furious1Auto]

Ideally, the consumer would vote with their pocketbook. That is the system I've been pushing for.

 

Capitalism is exactly what we have now in the insurance industry. But just as Wal-Mart is able to dictate pricing in order to lower prices for their customers, the government would have the leverage to do the same. One negotiator, and everyone wins. Multiple coverage levels with 10,000,000 Americans negotiating, and we get what we have now!

[Marginal Economist]

Capitalism is exactly what we have now in the insurance industry. But just as Wal-Mart is able to dictate pricing in order to lower prices for their customers, the government would have the leverage to do the same. One negotiator, and everyone wins. Multiple coverage levels with 10,000,000 Americans negotiating, and we get what we have now!

 

With a market exchange and posted pricing at doctors, you could purchase the level of insurance that you need. HSA's that are tax deductible would force Americans to pay attention to what they pay and not "overconusume" health care. Here are 17 compnaies that provide health insurance in Michigan - Link

 

If Ford gave you the money they spend on BCBS and let you choose instead, you may be better off picking a different company.

 

If I don't like Allied or U-Haul's rates or policies, I could choose a company like yours. Why can't I have the same say so in my health insurance. It seems to work for car insurance.

[napfirst]

Capitalism is exactly what we have now in the insurance industry. But just as Wal-Mart is able to dictate pricing in order to lower prices for their customers, the government would have the leverage to do the same. One negotiator, and everyone wins. Multiple coverage levels with 10,000,000 Americans negotiating, and we get what we have now!

So you like the gov. dictating prices?...how about if they told you what you could charge your customers....?

[Furious1Auto]

So you like the gov. dictating prices?...how about if they told you what you could charge your customers....?

 

The difference is that people will not die without my service, and I'm not posting billions in profit quarterly.

 

Marginal I understand what you are saying, but it is enough burden dealing with everything else we had to do. It will also force people to spend hours reading literature to compare complex coverages from multiple insurers, and then calling around to several medical facilities to price check before receiving services. What a pain in the ass. What if you want to continue seeing your doctor, and he is the most expensive in town, should you go elsewhere? If everyone had to pay out of pocket, the cost of medical care would never have risen to it's current pricing. The insurers make their coverage levels complicated for a reason, to make it difficult without real investigating to discern which plan, and or company is better.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Furious1Auto

[Marginal Economist]

The difference is that people will not die without my service, and I'm not posting billions in profit quarterly.

 

Marginal I understand what you are saying, but it is enough burden dealing with everything else we had to do. It will also force people to spend hours reading literature to compare complex coverages from multiple insurers, and then calling around to several medical facilities to price check before receiving services. What a pain in the ass. What if you want to continue seeing your doctor, and he is the most expensive in town, should you go elsewhere? If everyone had to pay out of pocket, the cost of medical care costs would never have risen to it's current pricing. The insurers make their coverage levels complicated for a reason, to make it difficult without real investigating to discern which plan, and or company is better.

 

Agree with a lot of your points. I'm picturing a market exhange that makes it a lot simpler. Let's say you have 3 tiers of coverage.

 

Basic- Catastrophic Coverage, 1 physical year

Preferred- Basic + 2 yearly visits +other benny

Premium - Preferred + drug benefits or other additional bennys

 

Each company would have to meet basic guidelines to post their plan in the market and make it available to anyone who wanted the coverage (no pre existing conditions exclusions at certain levels). Plans would be based on age/smoking/size of family. Each company would list it's additional benefits and the annual price. It is regulated to make sure the minimum requirements are met, but market pricing should keep insurers in check. I'd be OK with a gov't subsidy to low income individual or families that need basic coverage.

 

Pricing for medical clinics should be similar to grocery stores or oil change shops. I know I get better service at the Ford store, but many still go to Jiffy Lube. Why can't we make doctors post pricing for services on line? Post the price at health.yourstate.gov and list your price, experience, and education. Add in a review, comment section and have the people police it. I'd bet Consumer Reports would jump at the chance to add a "Recommend" ranking and get in on a new industry.

 

As to the pain in the butt factor, I spent at least 6 hours researching the medical options through Ford. Salaried were offered 3 plans. I crunched numbers, looked at my families health spend historically and what we have planned for the year, and made my choice. It will be quicker next year as I'll have some experience with the current plan. I don't think that taking 10 hours to make a $2k-20K decision is too much. I spend a couple hours a year on car insurance, home owners insurance, and life insurance. I spend much more time on banking and investments. I don't want to admit to how much time I spend on the internet - but there is probably enough time for me to make an educated decision on health insurance.

 

I do think that having a large portion of health expenses be on the back of the individual would require health costs to come down. If your doc is the most expensive in town -why? I'd imagine he/she would lose some patients and would bring the cost down. Or if he is providing that much better of a service, the patients would not drop off. I'd feel a lot better rewarding great doctors than paying a flat fee for crappy ones. I'd also like to see a lot of non MD's do basic work. That should bring the cost down and allow more supply of medical practitioners to fill the void quickly.

[napfirst]

The difference is that people will not die without my service, and I'm not posting billions in profit quarterly.

 

Marginal I understand what you are saying, but it is enough burden dealing with everything else we had to do. It will also force people to spend hours reading literature to compare complex coverages from multiple insurers, and then calling around to several medical facilities to price check before receiving services. What a pain in the ass. What if you want to continue seeing your doctor, and he is the most expensive in town, should you go elsewhere? If everyone had to pay out of pocket, the cost of medical care would never have risen to it's current pricing. The insurers make their coverage levels complicated for a reason, to make it difficult without real investigating to discern which plan, and or company is better.

makes no difference......I ask you a question...do you want the gov to tell you how much you can charge...yes or no?

[Furious1Auto]

Agree with a lot of your points. I'm picturing a market exhange that makes it a lot simpler. Let's say you have 3 tiers of coverage.

 

Basic- Catastrophic Coverage, 1 physical year

Preferred- Basic + 2 yearly visits +other benny

Premium - Preferred + drug benefits or other additional bennys

 

Each company would have to meet basic guidelines to post their plan in the market and make it available to anyone who wanted the coverage (no pre existing conditions exclusions at certain levels). Plans would be based on age/smoking/size of family. Each company would list it's additional benefits and the annual price. It is regulated to make sure the minimum requirements are met, but market pricing should keep insurers in check. I'd be OK with a gov't subsidy to low income individual or families that need basic coverage.

 

Pricing for medical clinics should be similar to grocery stores or oil change shops. I know I get better service at the Ford store, but many still go to Jiffy Lube. Why can't we make doctors post pricing for services on line? Post the price at health.yourstate.gov and list your price, experience, and education. Add in a review, comment section and have the people police it. I'd bet Consumer Reports would jump at the chance to add a "Recommend" ranking and get in on a new industry.

 

As to the pain in the butt factor, I spent at least 6 hours researching the medical options through Ford. Salaried were offered 3 plans. I crunched numbers, looked at my families health spend historically and what we have planned for the year, and made my choice. It will be quicker next year as I'll have some experience with the current plan. I don't think that taking 10 hours to make a $2k-20K decision is too much. I spend a couple hours a year on car insurance, home owners insurance, and life insurance. I spend much more time on banking and investments. I don't want to admit to how much time I spend on the internet - but there is probably enough time for me to make an educated decision on health insurance.

 

I do think that having a large portion of health expenses be on the back of the individual would require health costs to come down. If your doc is the most expensive in town -why? I'd imagine he/she would lose some patients and would bring the cost down. Or if he is providing that much better of a service, the patients would not drop off. I'd feel a lot better rewarding great doctors than paying a flat fee for crappy ones. I'd also like to see a lot of non MD's do basic work. That should bring the cost down and allow more supply of medical practitioners to fill the void quickly.

 

Interesting!

[Trimdingman]

Millions of unisured americans being covered...Now you tell me since you dont approve of anything in it. Where is your party on NN reform bill? They dont have one. The Republicants all agree that health care needs to be reformed but they stil have no solution on how to go about reforming it. And it will just break their hearts if its done under a democratic leadership. The republiCANTS could give a shit less if People are dying from being unisured. Do you know how many people died today in this country from being without healthcare??????? But yet and still the Rethugs rather waste time bringing accusations up against Disney World saying they are evil and exciting sexism!! They are absolutely out of their minds and the American people know it.

 

Wow! Such hate and predjudice. Republicans don't care if people are dying? You actually believe that? They are out of their minds, and the American people know it? They are not American people? We all want what is best for the people. We disagree on how to go about it, that is all. I can't see collectivism as a solution, whether it is through government control or private insurance companies. The best way is user-pay, and force the providers to become affordable to what the individual can pay. If the auto industry can build affordable cars, then the medical industry can provide affordable health care.

[longball]

Here is another example of our superior health care QUALITY

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700

[Trimdingman]

Here is another example of our superior health care QUALITY

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700

 

 

I've seen the superiority of U.S. health care first hand. I wouldn't have heart surgery in Canada, either, if I could have the opportunity to get it in the U.S. Political leaders will defend Canada's health care, but will not bet their own lives on it, only ours. Government control of health care has nothing to do with what is best for the people and everything to do with the government acquiring more power and authority.

[charly]

Wow! Such hate and predjudice. Republicans don't care if people are dying? You actually believe that? They are out of their minds, and the American people know it? They are not American people? We all want what is best for the people. We disagree on how to go about it, that is all. I can't see collectivism as a solution, whether it is through government control or private insurance companies. The best way is user-pay, and force the providers to become affordable to what the individual can pay. If the auto industry can build affordable cars, then the medical industry can provide affordable health care.

 

 

"We" agree?

You stunned jackass, I'm sorry to say dingbat is a Canadian....but I'm sure everyone knows that.

[Furious1Auto]

[Furious1Auto]

Targeting Insurance Abuses as a Path to Federal Health Reform

 

 

As comprehensive health care reform has been stalled for several weeks now, progressive legislators, advocates and health care consumers across the country have been feeling a deep sense of frustration and outrage. The insurance industry and their conservative allies in Congress have used every tactic available to shift public debate away from the core reason insurance reform was needed in the first place: the denial of coverage to those with preexisting coverage, and the out-sized profits and administrative waste by insurance companies that has priced health care out of the reach of millions of Americans. Last year, there were 900,000 families that faced bankruptcy due to medical costs, and remarkably, of those 900,000, 75% (675,000) had insurance coverage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LINK

[Furious1Auto]

[Trimdingman]

"We" agree?

You stunned jackass, I'm sorry to say dingbat is a Canadian....but I'm sure everyone knows that.

 

I am an American. My ancestry before 1762 was American, going back to The Mayflower. I have an Aboriginal Status card, which makes me a citizen of North America. I do not want U.S.citizens to make the same mistake that Canada made by falling for government health care. How many generations are you removed from some socialist hell hole? Not enough, it seems. You still have the disease. European socialism has been creeping back ever since they got the big boot in 1776. It is time to give it another swift kick.

[Furious1Auto]

I am an American. My ancestry before 1762 was American, going back to The Mayflower. I have an Aboriginal Status card, which makes me a citizen of North America. I do not want U.S.citizens to make the same mistake that Canada made by falling for government health care. How many generations are you removed from some socialist hell hole? Not enough, it seems. You still have the disease. European socialism has been creeping back ever since they got the big boot in 1776. It is time to give it another swift kick.

 

 

Where do you live trim?

[partsisparts]

Please read:

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/opinion/19krugman.html