Consessions Fight Update

[snoopy]

Ford makes profits, but wants more concessions

 

 

Alan Mullaly and other Ford executives have been saying they want more concessions from Ford workers. On August 5, at a meeting of the UAW Ford National Council, many local union leaders spoke up. They told President Ron Gettelfinger and Vice President Bob King – if they come back for more concessions, it is not going to pass; the membership is going to vote it down.

 

I agree 100 per cent. I think people are still angry about the last concessions, rightfully so. There was a strong “No” vote against concessions last time and I think Ford workers are ready to vote down any more concessions.

 

They realize it, too. I believe that’s why they backed off, for a minute. At the end of the Council meeting, Bob King said that he will continue to have discussions with Ford about further concessions. I believe that they will be back for more, they just want to figure out what kind of concessions they could get us to pass.

 

The idea that Ford is even talking about more concessions is beyond outrageous. Ford is bragging about how they are doing better than the other auto companies. Ford reported a 2.3 billion dollar profit last quarter, but they want to take even more away from us???!!!

 

It just goes to show you that once you start giving concessions, the companies will never stop coming back for more and more and more. There is no end to their greed.

 

That’s why I believe that if they come back for ANY kind of concessions, we have to say “NO”.

 

No matter if the concessions seem small, or not affecting us directly, we have to say “NO MORE”.

 

If we give up anything, it leaves the door open for them to keep coming back.

 

We have to do whatever it takes to put an end to concessions.

 

 

Gary Walkowicz (313) 737-3166

Bargaining Committeeman, Dearborn Truck Plant

UAW Local 600

GWALK15@peoplepc.com.

August 11, 2009 labor donated

[400member]

Ford makes profits, but wants more concessions

 

 

Alan Mullaly and other Ford executives have been saying they want more concessions from Ford workers. On August 5, at a meeting of the UAW Ford National Council, many local union leaders spoke up. They told President Ron Gettelfinger and Vice President Bob King – if they come back for more concessions, it is not going to pass; the membership is going to vote it down.

 

I agree 100 per cent. I think people are still angry about the last concessions, rightfully so. There was a strong “No” vote against concessions last time and I think Ford workers are ready to vote down any more concessions.

 

They realize it, too. I believe that’s why they backed off, for a minute. At the end of the Council meeting, Bob King said that he will continue to have discussions with Ford about further concessions. I believe that they will be back for more, they just want to figure out what kind of concessions they could get us to pass.

 

The idea that Ford is even talking about more concessions is beyond outrageous. Ford is bragging about how they are doing better than the other auto companies. Ford reported a 2.3 billion dollar profit last quarter, but they want to take even more away from us???!!!

 

It just goes to show you that once you start giving concessions, the companies will never stop coming back for more and more and more. There is no end to their greed.

 

That’s why I believe that if they come back for ANY kind of concessions, we have to say “NO”.

 

No matter if the concessions seem small, or not affecting us directly, we have to say “NO MORE”.

 

If we give up anything, it leaves the door open for them to keep coming back.

 

We have to do whatever it takes to put an end to concessions.

 

 

Gary Walkowicz (313) 737-3166

Bargaining Committeeman, Dearborn Truck Plant

UAW Local 600

GWALK15@peoplepc.com.

August 11, 2009 labor donated

 

I find it incrediible that Mullaly and his fingerlings want concession again from the UAW contract, but do not want their contract opened up to the public and chopped up. Shared sacrifice???? This race to the bottom is going to kill manufacturing everywhere in the US and Michigan.

 

Look at all the spinoffs that the management said were going to help the industry... Visteon, American Axle, Delphi, etc all bankrupt or claining similar conditions in the name of competiveness. Look at the OEM companies plans to become profitable, bring cars and product from overseas or Mexico.

 

These are short term highways to economic disaster as the manufcturing base is wiped away leaving american workers competing for burger flipping jobs they won't be able to afford to buy. In the name of what make this competitive? The ability of all to grow is the basis of a growing economy, not gaining parity with countries polluting there water and soil, not with couties that fail to protect workers from chemicals or dangerous process, or countries that don't protect families from contaminated foods that kill children.

 

the OEM's started this mess in their spin classes and we are gong to pay for it, big time, until reps and mebers wake the hell up and find our collective spines and finally make demands instead of concessions. When managemnt is paying the costs, only then will thay pay attention. Management needs to get some of that Chinese weenie for a change!!!

[udontkno]

The last concessions was the first modification or contract that I have voted for in at least 10 or 12 years. The union members showed good faith in helping Ford and the leadership at Ford believed the concessions would help. Now Ford is pushing for more concessions and I totally regret voting for the last concessions. Ford dosnt want to have a (one) team with everyone working for a stronger company. No they want a us-vs-them and the best wins.

 

The way I see it as long as the leadership at Ford feels this way, they better have some good bankruptcy lawyers close at hand. If the workforce feels unhappy they will be less productive and make fewer improvement suggestions. On the other hand I dont want to force Ford to pay me so much more that they can't compete (even if they dont give a sh-t about me, my family or community).

 

So I have a good resolution that is a win-win. Ford will get the following concession 1.) unlimited 2nd tier through 2015 as GM has.

 

In return for this Ford will move production of the Fusion, Milan and MKZ to a U.S. plant (not at a later date now) when the production is in the U.S. Ford will be able to hire the 2nd tier workers.

 

If I were Bob King I would also negotiate for Ford to bring the Mexican built Fiesta to the U.S. and allow the whole plant to be a 2nd tier wage plant, as long as all first tier on layoff are recalled first. When a future first tier opening comes open the employees at the 2nd tier plant will get the first option to transfer to improve their life.

 

If Ford dosnt want to agree to these resonable terms then they should be the 2011 strike target and unless the Mexican work is brought back to the US, the membership will strike. A long enough strike could force to default on its loan payments and start bankruptcy.

If we look at the GM/Chrysler bankruptcys, the workers maintained pay and benefits but the shareholders lost everything and most of the creditors took a big hit. Bill Ford would be known as the Ford who lost the company because of 2 Mexican plants.

 

If the UAW dosnt make a stand now, they may lose all leverage. GM didnt include its asian or latin operations in its bankruptcy and now they are investing more money in China. I believe GM's bankruptcy was staged over 10 years ago when GM became the largest private employer in Mexico. Labor scholars call this "escape". It is when a company has to deal with a union and would rather "escape" to another country to avoid the union.

[whereswaldo]

If Ford dosnt want to agree to these resonable terms then they should be the 2011 strike target and unless the Mexican work is brought back to the US, the membership will strike. A long enough strike could force to default on its loan payments and start bankruptcy.

If we look at the GM/Chrysler bankruptcys, the workers maintained pay and benefits but the shareholders lost everything and most of the creditors took a big hit. Bill Ford would be known as the Ford who lost the company because of 2 Mexican plants.

 

If the UAW dosnt make a stand now, they may lose all leverage. GM didnt include its asian or latin operations in its bankruptcy and now they are investing more money in China. I believe GM's bankruptcy was staged over 10 years ago when GM became the largest private employer in Mexico. Labor scholars call this "escape". It is when a company has to deal with a union and would rather "escape" to another country to avoid the union.

I generally agree but as of right now, Ford IS THE ONLY STRIKE TARGET IN '11. I also believe that GM/Chrysler didnt just have an epiphany last fall. They knew the direction the companies were heading in regardless of the economy.

[uaw400]

I for one believe we all have good idea's as to what we " should " get in return from Ford motor Co. in exchange for another contract renegotaion. But I truly believe all we will get in exchange just somemore empty promise's from the company on " future " work ! I really think our leadership downtown has lost the meaning of "Solidarity " We as a union must band together as much as possible and put an end to all these senseless war's that we are waging agianst each other !! Take care ladies and gent's and I didnt mean to fly off the handle here with my " preeching "

[kpc655]

Ford makes profits,

 

not quite....

 

Ford's profit came largely from a $3.4 billion gain it received related to debt-restructuring actions in April. Excluding the one-time gains, the company would have narrowed its quarterly loss to $424 million compared with a loss of $1.03 billion a year earlier. It would have been the company's fifth consecutive quarterly loss.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090723-713287.html

[soupy]

not quite....

 

Ford's profit came largely from a $3.4 billion gain it received related to debt-restructuring actions in April. Excluding the one-time gains, the company would have narrowed its quarterly loss to $424 million compared with a loss of $1.03 billion a year earlier. It would have been the company's fifth consecutive quarterly loss.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090723-713287.html

 

Why bring a hard hitting reality to this discussion?

[gocash]

Why bring a hard hitting reality to this discussion?

 

 

 

profit is profit,no matter how you make it!!!

[kpc655]

profit is profit,no matter how you make it!!!

 

not really. operating profit is substantially different then profit from a one time finance action.

[fordworker]

not really. operating profit is substantially different then profit from a one time finance action.

just as a one time CHARGE for future expenses!! they pull that shit all the time so yes profit is profit..

[westmont]

just as a one time CHARGE for future expenses!! they pull that shit all the time so yes profit is profit..

[whereswaldo]

just as a one time CHARGE for future expenses!! they pull that shit all the time so yes profit is profit..

Good Point.

[Furious1Auto]

not really. operating profit is substantially different then profit from a one time finance action.

 

 

We'll see what they do next quarter!

[udontkno]

If we want to discuss profit then lets discuss the root cause as why Ford is not as profitable as they should be. When I hired in Ford in the 80's Ford was investing in new product all of the time, early 80's Taurus, Sable, updated Thunderbird models, new Town Car in 1990, along with Tempo, Topaz. Fords product cycle was pretty good and in the mid to late 90's Ford was making money hand over fist. Including a profit of $9 billion that was a record profit for any company at the time, yes including oil companies.

 

What did Ford executives with the blessing of the board of directors do with all of that money? Build new plants in N. America where they profits were coming from, increase or sustain investment in the vehicles that made the profits? No, they were like women with a credit card in a clothing store. They bought Jag. in 1989 $2 billion (analyst said they overpaid $1billion because Jag's manufacturing plants were never updated). Invested a more than $12 billion in Jag over the years with never not one profitable quater.

 

Bought Volvo $7 billion invested billions more with no steady or huge profit from the division. Bought LR for another few billion and invest in 33% of Mazda.

 

I not going to bring up the junkyards in Europe, or the money losing dealership purchases in the Southwest, or the 3 or so IT companies started or bought during the tech. boom (all money losers).

 

Ok well thats all good but what about the vehicles and plants that made Ford the profits? The big wigs forgot that they had a N.American auto manufacturing division. The Mark VIII-canceled, Town Car last update 1998, Grand Marquis/Crown Vic last update 1992, Ranger last update 1993. Taurus run from 1996-2007 with little change. Thunderbird canceled late 90's. Tempo/Topaz canceled.

 

After complaining for years on the company chat sight that Ford was killing its American car business in favor of Volvo, mazda, LR,Jag ect... Ford hires Mullaly and he tells Bill "you need to sell Jag., LR, Volvo ect"...Bill was pissed because Jag was daddy Fords prize. Mullaly says, look Bill you dont understand if you dont sell these divisions and concentrate on the Ford brand, you are going to lose all of the divisions!

a

2008 Ford starts to sell the unprofitable divisions that sucked up huge resources from the money divisions Ford Lincoln and Mercury. I contend Ford would be the most profitable auto manufacture in the world today with more money then Toyota if the rockheads in the upper offices would have applied business 101 and took care of the golden divisions. Now that they finally figured it out, they have to spend huge sums of money up front in product development and plant updates while not having the product available today to turn the profits. Ford knows they will be profitable by 2011 because the largest part of investment will be completed and producing vehicles that can be sold.

 

It took tens of millions of dollars to hire Mullaly to tell them something that many blue collar employees in the US were saying. Ford is still making bone head decisions in the FCSD division by renting all of the HVC buildings that will cost them more to lease for 10 years then they could have purchased for and owned real property. But lets leave that for another day.

 

Fast forward, 2009 the executives that screwed this company up are by and large gone. The board of directors that blessed the dicisions are still sucking the tit. But the answer now is the part of the company that was the rock, employees hourly and yes front line salary are making too much money for us to be competitive we need to reduce and cut benefits.

 

This business is so simple its not funny, but Ford hired a bunch of wiz kids with big dreams and about lost the whole company over it. Just like the investment bankers on Wall Street, create all of these fancy "investment" vehicles that no one could understand and about put the world in the worst depression since the 1930's.

 

Henry Ford disliked bankers and would have never bought any of those other companies. He would have did what he done best and thats improve his product!

 

And we all know Henry was the first billionaire in the world.

[400member]

not really. operating profit is substantially different then profit from a one time finance action.

 

Did Ford report it as profit??? YES! Are they going to pay executives performance on these Profits?? YES, albeit not right away while they are demanding more concessions!! Did ford stock move when the profits were reported?? YES!! Did everyone give Mullaly an atta boy when he reported profits?? YES!!

 

This did not come from a just a one time write down, it came from a combinatin of things including the ONE BILLION of concessions from UAW members!! Are the concessions going to continue over time??? YES, there goes that one time write down theory!!!

[kpc655]

Did Ford report it as profit??? YES! Are they going to pay executives performance on these Profits?? YES, albeit not right away while they are demanding more concessions!! Did ford stock move when the profits were reported?? YES!! Did everyone give Mullaly an atta boy when he reported profits?? YES!!

 

This did not come from a just a one time write down, it came from a combinatin of things including the ONE BILLION of concessions from UAW members!! Are the concessions going to continue over time??? YES, there goes that one time write down theory!!!

 

Did ford make a profit on operations? no.

 

i.e. there's still a problem with the operation cost structure.

 

finance tricks can only keep a company in business so long. core operations have to make money. otherwise ford will wind up like enron.

[gocash]

Did ford make a profit on operations? no.

 

i.e. there's still a problem with the operation cost structure.

 

finance tricks can only keep a company in business so long. core operations have to make money. otherwise ford will wind up like enron.

 

 

Ford will be making huge profits when the economy picks up. For the most part Ford has restructured very well. As painful as it has been to those affected by the restructuring, it will save Ford. The concessions need to end and its up to the UAW to put an end to them...The workforce has given enough back.It's time for management at the executive level to cut their own salaries if Ford needs more savings. Vote NO to any more concessions.

Edited September 3, 2009 by gocash

[snoopy]

If we want to discuss profit then lets discuss the root cause as why Ford is not as profitable as they should be. When I hired in Ford in the 80's Ford was investing in new product all of the time, early 80's Taurus, Sable, updated Thunderbird models, new Town Car in 1990, along with Tempo, Topaz. Fords product cycle was pretty good and in the mid to late 90's Ford was making money hand over fist. Including a profit of $9 billion that was a record profit for any company at the time, yes including oil companies.

 

What did Ford executives with the blessing of the board of directors do with all of that money? Build new plants in N. America where they profits were coming from, increase or sustain investment in the vehicles that made the profits? No, they were like women with a credit card in a clothing store. They bought Jag. in 1989 $2 billion (analyst said they overpaid $1billion because Jag's manufacturing plants were never updated). Invested a more than $12 billion in Jag over the years with never not one profitable quater.

 

Bought Volvo $7 billion invested billions more with no steady or huge profit from the division. Bought LR for another few billion and invest in 33% of Mazda.

 

I not going to bring up the junkyards in Europe, or the money losing dealership purchases in the Southwest, or the 3 or so IT companies started or bought during the tech. boom (all money losers).

 

Ok well thats all good but what about the vehicles and plants that made Ford the profits? The big wigs forgot that they had a N.American auto manufacturing division. The Mark VIII-canceled, Town Car last update 1998, Grand Marquis/Crown Vic last update 1992, Ranger last update 1993. Taurus run from 1996-2007 with little change. Thunderbird canceled late 90's. Tempo/Topaz canceled.

 

After complaining for years on the company chat sight that Ford was killing its American car business in favor of Volvo, mazda, LR,Jag ect... Ford hires Mullaly and he tells Bill "you need to sell Jag., LR, Volvo ect"...Bill was pissed because Jag was daddy Fords prize. Mullaly says, look Bill you dont understand if you dont sell these divisions and concentrate on the Ford brand, you are going to lose all of the divisions!

a

2008 Ford starts to sell the unprofitable divisions that sucked up huge resources from the money divisions Ford Lincoln and Mercury. I contend Ford would be the most profitable auto manufacture in the world today with more money then Toyota if the rockheads in the upper offices would have applied business 101 and took care of the golden divisions. Now that they finally figured it out, they have to spend huge sums of money up front in product development and plant updates while not having the product available today to turn the profits. Ford knows they will be profitable by 2011 because the largest part of investment will be completed and producing vehicles that can be sold.

 

It took tens of millions of dollars to hire Mullaly to tell them something that many blue collar employees in the US were saying. Ford is still making bone head decisions in the FCSD division by renting all of the HVC buildings that will cost them more to lease for 10 years then they could have purchased for and owned real property. But lets leave that for another day.

 

Fast forward, 2009 the executives that screwed this company up are by and large gone. The board of directors that blessed the dicisions are still sucking the tit. But the answer now is the part of the company that was the rock, employees hourly and yes front line salary are making too much money for us to be competitive we need to reduce and cut benefits.

 

This business is so simple its not funny, but Ford hired a bunch of wiz kids with big dreams and about lost the whole company over it. Just like the investment bankers on Wall Street, create all of these fancy "investment" vehicles that no one could understand and about put the world in the worst depression since the 1930's.

 

Henry Ford disliked bankers and would have never bought any of those other companies. He would have did what he done best and thats improve his product!

 

And we all know Henry was the first billionaire in the world.

 

 

 

You salary fuck. This is the reason why the company is the state they are in. You salary blood suckers put a tenth of the sweat into thes autos and have never heard what a hard days work is all about. Before you go and state that the Hourly are over paid, remember the people that build these autos that really put the food in your cake hole.

[Die Wahrheit]

You salary fuck. This is the reason why the company is the state they are in. You salary blood suckers put a tenth of the sweat into thes autos and have never heard what a hard days work is all about. Before you go and state that the Hourly are over paid, remember the people that build these autos that really put the food in your cake hole.

 

 

Do your job!

[stephenhawkings]

You salary fuck. This is the reason why the company is the state they are in. You salary blood suckers put a tenth of the sweat into thes autos and have never heard what a hard days work is all about. Before you go and state that the Hourly are over paid, remember the people that build these autos that really put the food in your cake hole.

in light of this wonderful reply I thought i would share a few of mine,

 

if we strike in2011 does that mean those salary fucks will declare bankruptcy?

profits can be counted and crated in many ways

when is the economy going to pick up?

will we ever get a hard copy from our union of the last round of concessions?

is ETAP a dead horse?

or just suspended?

whats up with those physicals?

should I get a reward for good health?

how about something more than a year old cup for my perfect attendance?

can some one on management grow a pair when it comes to system players?

on our next launch can we have some input into work allocation?

are we going to be getting any innovative products soon?

a bronco?

something besides a revamped tarus or stang or mildly modified Fseries?

How about eliminating some of the layers in bureaucracy?

can i get a plug in hybrid or electric car?

really i wouldn't mind plugging it in to save a bunch of money, it may be counterproductive to consumerism but come on man!

[udontkno]

You salary fuck. This is the reason why the company is the state they are in. You salary blood suckers put a tenth of the sweat into thes autos and have never heard what a hard days work is all about. Before you go and state that the Hourly are over paid, remember the people that build these autos that really put the food in your cake hole.

 

First lets get one thing straight I am not salary! Not that there is anything wrong with salary, they are trying to feed their families also.

Second I should have re read my post, it was very late and I was tired so some of the things I wrote didnt come out exactly how I meant.

 

biggest error,

 

"Fast forward, 2009 the executives that screwed this company up are by and large gone. The board of directors that blessed the dicisions are still sucking the tit. But the answer now is the part of the company that was the rock, employees hourly and yes front line salary are making too much money for us to be competitive we need to reduce and cut benefits. "

 

What I meant to say is Ford's executives believe that if they cut our pay or hire in more 2nd tier or reduce classifications somehow all of Fords problems will be behind them. The problem is not nor ever been the hourly employees pay/benefits. If you read my post you will see that the real problem has been VERY POOR executive decisions. If it werent for these knuckleheads running the company into the ground, Ford would be so far ahead of all of the other companies today, it wouldnt be funny.

 

So I am sorry for not re reading my post, but you are a poor example of a human being with your foul mouth. It is people like you that give all union members a bad name. Clean up your mouth and your view on humanity and maybe you will become a much happier person. You should go into work today and ask your supervisor how he/she is and treat them like you want to be treated. We cant be accountable for others actions only ours and if Ford goes out of business tomorrow, we will all be in the same boat!

[Furious1Auto]

First lets get one thing straight I am not salary! Not that there is anything wrong with salary, they are trying to feed their families also.

Second I should have re read my post, it was very late and I was tired so some of the things I wrote didnt come out exactly how I meant.

 

biggest error,

 

"Fast forward, 2009 the executives that screwed this company up are by and large gone. The board of directors that blessed the dicisions are still sucking the tit. But the answer now is the part of the company that was the rock, employees hourly and yes front line salary are making too much money for us to be competitive we need to reduce and cut benefits. "

 

What I meant to say is Ford's executives believe that if they cut our pay or hire in more 2nd tier or reduce classifications somehow all of Fords problems will be behind them. The problem is not nor ever been the hourly employees pay/benefits. If you read my post you will see that the real problem has been VERY POOR executive decisions. If it werent for these knuckleheads running the company into the ground, Ford would be so far ahead of all of the other companies today, it wouldnt be funny.

 

So I am sorry for not re reading my post, but you are a poor example of a human being with your foul mouth. It is people like you that give all union members a bad name. Clean up your mouth and your view on humanity and maybe you will become a much happier person. You should go into work today and ask your supervisor how he/she is and treat them like you want to be treated. We cant be accountable for others actions only ours and if Ford goes out of business tomorrow, we will all be in the same boat!

 

Four things:

 

The union is not overpaid for the work they perform. Ford is not "going out of business" even if they filed bankruptcy tomorrow, they would still continue to build vehicles. Ford is currently profitable in NA, and has been for years globally. Ford is already way ahead of the competition!

[Len_A]

You salary fuck. This is the reason why the company is the state they are in. You salary blood suckers put a tenth of the sweat into thes autos and have never heard what a hard days work is all about. Before you go and state that the Hourly are over paid, remember the people that build these autos that really put the food in your cake hole.

That's a hell of an attitude to show on a publicly available forum - anyone with a computer and an internet connection can at least read this forum's comments. Considering that the majority of customers are white collar (read that as salaried), at-will employees, even if you're right (which I'm not saying you are), your comment reinforces the worst stereotypes about blue collar UAW auto workers. Nice going. Real nice going. Considering how much good will Ford has been on the receiving end of, for not needing the kind of government intervention General Motors and Chrysler needed, shooting your mouth off and helping piss away that good will isn't very smart.

[400member]

Did ford make a profit on operations? no.

 

i.e. there's still a problem with the operation cost structure.

 

finance tricks can only keep a company in business so long. core operations have to make money. otherwise ford will wind up like enron.

 

Management made all the decisions then and looks like they are still.

 

Its a matter of Mgt 101, create a long term entity vs a short term entity. There are two historical facts, the Fords never could run a business, and each past CEO since the late 70's made plans and structures to pay themselves huge payouts upon retirements and year end bonuses. you cannot manage operations you have to perform them.

 

ford has not and they continue to half ass benchmark toyota mgt. We take the operations benchmarking but leave of the mgt benchmarking. Drucker said all of this 30 years or more ago and it has been repeated by Tom Peters and others along the way.

 

As for your willingness to separtee operation out for your purposes of illustation that the UAW should give back, where do you set mgt costs? I suppose those are not operations... If Ford were to hire a reputable compnay to audit the IT ops in the compnay, how much time do you suppose is redirected to personal issues, whle the UAW guy has to wait for their break times for personal issues. And that is just one example.

 

my friend you cannot cut one side of your costs without cutting the other side, balance in all things or plop!! If only mgt can afford the product, then Ford will also plop, or end up like enron, who cut just one side.

[fordworker]

looks like they took our $500 million concessions savings and built that $500 million car plant in India!!