Ebster Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Could you point me to the language stating a tradesman hired off the street on 2/1/1990 for example, will have day one seniority on the line? Or does he/she have 2/1/1990 production seniority even though he/she is on a production job? Those trades that went to DTP and AAI went in with a plant leveling date. At AAI it was June 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Those trades that went to DTP and AAI went in with a plant leveling date. At AAI it was June 2005 Are you talking about In-Zone or Out-of-Zone transfers? I was asking about In-Plant only for the purpose of this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebster Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Are you talking about In-Zone or Out-of-Zone transfers? I was asking about In-Plant only for the purpose of this discussion. These were in zone temp openings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 These were in zone temp openings So.....Bob is hired in to production in 2000, goes to trades in 2002. Tom hires into trades from the street in 2001. Bob and Tom are both placed into production classification at the same time in the same plant. Bob will have 2000 seniority and Tom will have 2009 seniority. Could really suck to be Tom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextup Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 A tradesperson displacing a production worker would only happen if the tradesperson had production time. So I don't understand how they would be displacing them, they have higher seniority. As far a skilled trades doing production work, I was told the reason why the UAW asked for their rate of pay was because it doesn't give the company any advantage to keeping them in production and hopefully they will utilize our trades on project work instead of production. They can not do Skilled trades work while reduced to production, so the feeling is they will keep them in their trade and keep a production person off the street. not going to happen. you really think that they care where your at. it still puts someone on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypsirat Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 A tradesperson displacing a production worker would only happen if the tradesperson had production time. So I don't understand how they would be displacing them, they have higher seniority. As far a skilled trades doing production work, I was told the reason why the UAW asked for their rate of pay was because it doesn't give the company any advantage to keeping them in production and hopefully they will utilize our trades on project work instead of production. They can not do Skilled trades work while reduced to production, so the feeling is they will keep them in their trade and keep a production person off the street. Capt is correct on this issue. was layed off from another plant and after 6 months of being layed off and all production people supposedly placed we were canvased to see if we wanted to work production. so now as far as i know there are at least 40 tradesman from various plants working the line at dtp. i think the reason we got a leveling date of june 2005 is because we are considered temp employees. some of theses tradesman do carry production time but it did not apply because we are temps. as far as our wages going back to skilled rate in this new contract modification is because uaw tried to mirror gm and chry. contracts without eliminating trade classifications. with us working line at our rate it is the uaw trying to force ford to find skilled openings for us. probably replace us with 2nd tier workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuaw Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Yeah and I think the only reason the company agreed to that was to make it easier for those trades that get reduced to the line due to "efficiencies" from the proposed mechanical teams to swallow that bitter pill. As like GM the effected tradesperson will take their rate of pay when a reduction in their classification results in that person being moved to production to prevent them from being layed off to the street. This means when they are assigned to plantwide labor pool. When that person bids on a job such as inspection, material handling, etc. they assume that rate of pay. So they put you on a hard job you bid off. and they win, they are no longer paying the rate, and they have a trades person off the rolls. so they get what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuaw Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Capt is correct on this issue. was layed off from another plant and after 6 months of being layed off and all production people supposedly placed we were canvased to see if we wanted to work production. so now as far as i know there are at least 40 tradesman from various plants working the line at dtp. i think the reason we got a leveling date of june 2005 is because we are considered temp employees. some of theses tradesman do carry production time but it did not apply because we are temps. as far as our wages going back to skilled rate in this new contract modification is because uaw tried to mirror gm and chry. contracts without eliminating trade classifications. with us working line at our rate it is the uaw trying to force ford to find skilled openings for us. probably replace us with 2nd tier workers. your rate will not go back to your trade rate, it states currently working or future, not past. there are several trades at my plant that went to production already and we were told no wage increase. you have to be currently in a trade when they get the modification radified. VOTE NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaw007 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 your rate will not go back to your trade rate, it states currently working or future, not past. there are several trades at my plant that went to production already and we were told no wage increase. you have to be currently in a trade when they get the modification radified. VOTE NO Who did you get your info from? All skilled trades who are working in production will get there pay back. If you are a tradesperson working in production you are currently working. If your in skilled trades and you go to production in the future then you are the future in the language. If they wanted skilled trades the way you say the language would have said all future skilled trades assigned to production would maintain there rate of pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuaw Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 ['meuaw' date=Oct 22 2009, 09:20 PM' post='560696] your rate will not go back to your trade rate, it states currently working or future, not past. there are several trades at my plant that went to production already and we were told no wage increase. you have to be currently in a trade when they get the modification radified. VOTE NO Who did you get your info from? All skilled trades who are working in production will get there pay back. If you are a tradesperson working in production you are currently working. If your in skilled trades and you go to production in the future then you are the future in the language. If they wanted skilled trades the way you say the language would have said all future skilled trades assigned to production would maintain there rate of pay. if you are currently classifed something other than a trade you will not. if you get sent to production after the modification you will keep your rate.until to bid to a classified job then you will receive that pay rate. the question is where did you get your info. please call the IUAW ask for chris visicomi the skilled trades rep he will verify this and answer any questions you may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaw007 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 ['meuaw' date=Oct 22 2009, 09:20 PM' post='560696]your rate will not go back to your trade rate, it states currently working or future, not past. there are several trades at my plant that went to production already and we were told no wage increase. you have to be currently in a trade when they get the modification radified. VOTE NO Who did you get your info from? All skilled trades who are working in production will get there pay back. If you are a tradesperson working in production you are currently working. If your in skilled trades and you go to production in the future then you are the future in the language. If they wanted skilled trades the way you say the language would have said all future skilled trades assigned to production would maintain there rate of pay. if you are currently classifed something other than a trade you will not. if you get sent to production after the modification you will keep your rate.until to bid to a classified job then you will receive that pay rate. the question is where did you get your info. please call the IUAW ask for chris visicomi the skilled trades rep he will verify this and answer any questions you may have. I appreciate you telling me it was Chris that told you that. I know who he is and i will give him a call. I was told by our chairman that all trades currently working on the line will recieve there skilled trades base rate. I will get to the bottom of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abird Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Does anyone know the real rules for when there are ILO's coming and you have production time befored going to the trades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Does anyone know the real rules for when there are ILO's coming and you have production time befored going to the trades? Experience shows it's on a "case by case basis". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 your rate will not go back to your trade rate, it states currently working or future, not past. there are several trades at my plant that went to production already and we were told no wage increase. you have to be currently in a trade when they get the modification radified. VOTE NO WRONG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid remedy Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I do see your point. The language you are referencing to however, is already in place. They could do what you described right now. If the teams are implemented any time soon, it could give the union some ammo to fight ILO, maybe? Seems a bit conflicting if you ask me. Brothers and sisters when my trade job is reduced I must decide whether to go back to production or on an ILO, under our new agreement I will go back to the line and continue to make my $4.00 an hour more, I will bump out a less seniority employee, Regardless of when I went into the trades my Ford seniority rules, I came from the line and I will have no problem going back. Remember you voted for this crap not the skilled trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaw007 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 ['meuaw' date=Oct 22 2009, 09:20 PM' post='560696]your rate will not go back to your trade rate, it states currently working or future, not past. there are several trades at my plant that went to production already and we were told no wage increase. you have to be currently in a trade when they get the modification radified. VOTE NO Who did you get your info from? All skilled trades who are working in production will get there pay back. If you are a tradesperson working in production you are currently working. If your in skilled trades and you go to production in the future then you are the future in the language. If they wanted skilled trades the way you say the language would have said all future skilled trades assigned to production would maintain there rate of pay. if you are currently classifed something other than a trade you will not. if you get sent to production after the modification you will keep your rate.until to bid to a classified job then you will receive that pay rate. the question is where did you get your info. please call the IUAW ask for chris visicomi the skilled trades rep he will verify this and answer any questions you may have. That is not true. Which is good news for skilled trades working on the line. They will get there base pay returned to them. If you know Chris give him a call im sure he will straighten this out for you. Seems like another communication problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardball Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Capt is correct on this issue. was layed off from another plant and after 6 months of being layed off and all production people supposedly placed we were canvased to see if we wanted to work production. so now as far as i know there are at least 40 tradesman from various plants working the line at dtp. i think the reason we got a leveling date of june 2005 is because we are considered temp employees. some of theses tradesman do carry production time but it did not apply because we are temps. as far as our wages going back to skilled rate in this new contract modification is because uaw tried to mirror gm and chry. contracts without eliminating trade classifications. with us working line at our rate it is the uaw trying to force ford to find skilled openings for us. probably replace us with 2nd tier workers. What a bunch of shit if you are on the line as a tradesman getting paid trades pay and the line breakes down and there short handed and you have the knowledge to get them running your fixing it. What are you going to grieve they made me work . Your own workers will make sure you fix it after all you are making 5.00 dollars more than them. The committee man you will get will be from production and he to will have gotten a 5.00 dollar raise because his pay is on the highest person he represents witch will be trades so hes just going to tell you that you can't refuse the job and being that its a back shift just do it and he will get into it on day shift. What will a person do refuse or do what ford motor company is paying them to do remember your getting a skilled pay rate. Maybe thats why they are letting trades with no production time go on the line.It looks to me like they are wanting to get rid of as many production workers as they can. when the production committee people read this they will all say BULLSHIT but REMEMBER that they are the ones that got a 5.00 dollar raise. We get nothing until 2015 but all the production committe people get a 5.00dollar raise.That explains why there such good sales people for this contract. :shades: :shades: :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 That is not true. Which is good news for skilled trades working on the line. They will get there base pay returned to them. If you know Chris give him a call im sure he will straighten this out for you. Seems like another communication problem. And listen to him tell you to talk to Jesus? As someone who worked with him, don't trust him further than you can throw him! He's the same as the rest of them up there and don't forget it! He's going to tell you whatever is going to get you off his back for the moment and won't be available later in the future when you realize you got screwed after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeofearl Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 What a bunch of shit if you are on the line as a tradesman getting paid trades pay and the line breakes down and there short handed and you have the knowledge to get them running your fixing it. What are you going to grieve they made me work . Your own workers will make sure you fix it after all you are making 5.00 dollars more than them. The committee man you will get will be from production and he to will have gotten a 5.00 dollar raise because his pay is on the highest person he represents witch will be trades so hes just going to tell you that you can't refuse the job and being that its a back shift just do it and he will get into it on day shift. What will a person do refuse or do what ford motor company is paying them to do remember your getting a skilled pay rate. Maybe thats why they are letting trades with no production time go on the line.It looks to me like they are wanting to get rid of as many production workers as they can. when the production committee people read this they will all say BULLSHIT but REMEMBER that they are the ones that got a 5.00 dollar raise. We get nothing until 2015 but all the production committe people get a 5.00dollar raise.That explains why there such good sales people for this contract. :shades: :shades: :shades: After reading that i hope everybody votes no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaw007 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 After reading that i hope everybody votes no.Are you saying you would vote no based on a opinnion from hardball? Trades will not do trades work while working in production jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeofearl Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Are you saying you would vote no based on a opinnion from hardball? Trades will not do trades work while working in production jobs. WOW thanks what was i thinking that would never happen if it did your right we let them fire us befor we would do the job. I mean you said it all when you said trades will not do trades work while working what kind of since would that make sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Reality check here! The law and the umpire both state that the company only has to pay you the rate for the highest level of work you are doing at that time! So ask someone to show you the LANGUAGE (not some oral commitment) that stipulates that you would receive your skilled trades classification rate of pay! BUT! Guess what?! THEY CAN'T! IT DOESN'T EXIST! You guys are so screwed! We had some guys come back to the line just recently and they lost their rate of pay immediately! Do you think they're going to pay you the rate of pay for work you aren't doing? Get a grip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) Reality check here! The law and the umpire both state that the company only has to pay you the rate for the highest level of work you are doing at that time! So ask someone to show you the LANGUAGE (not some oral commitment) that stipulates that you would receive your skilled trades classification rate of pay! BUT! Guess what?! THEY CAN'T! IT DOESN'T EXIST! You guys are so screwed! We had some guys come back to the line just recently and they lost their rate of pay immediately! Do you think they're going to pay you the rate of pay for work you aren't doing? Get a grip! I think they are referring to the OctoMod clause drawn from the GM and Chrysler contract that would restore skilled tradesmen who are working on the line back to their tradesman pay upon ratification of these modifications. The justification I have read here was, it made it uneconomical for the company to keep them on the line. RE: OctoMod Page 24-2nd bullet point That would, for some time, result in tradesmen working on production jobs and being paid their trade classification rate of pay. It would be interesting to know the language that establishes the DC or others pay based on highest rate in their team or district. Edited October 24, 2009 by FiredMotorCompany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Reality check here! The law and the umpire both state that the company only has to pay you the rate for the highest level of work you are doing at that time! So ask someone to show you the LANGUAGE (not some oral commitment) that stipulates that you would receive your skilled trades classification rate of pay! BUT! Guess what?! THEY CAN'T! IT DOESN'T EXIST! You guys are so screwed! We had some guys come back to the line just recently and they lost their rate of pay immediately! Do you think they're going to pay you the rate of pay for work you aren't doing? Get a grip! Spring are you losing it? I am a no vote but I think you are giving bad info here. :shades: GM and CHYS/Fiat have already done this. Yes it is real, but only to get trades to buy the consolidation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Spring are you losing it? I am a no vote but I think you are giving bad info here. :shades: GM and CHYS/Fiat have already done this. Yes it is real, but only to get trades to buy the consolidation. I'm telling you what the facts are! If any of these tradesmen think they are going to be keeping their rate of pay while on the production line, they're full of it! Furthermore, let's get cute for a second! If they were to keep their rate of pay, the group leaders make the same rate as the highest paid member of their group (e.g. inspectors) plus fifty cents. If that's the case and they were going to keep their rate of pay, I've got an open job from a Sandusky return and I know who I want to fill that job! Check it out for yourself! Do you have access to the umpire opinions? There is no requirement on the part of the company to keep their rate of pay if they are not doing the work. Just like with our toolmakers that were put back on the line in Trim. They lost their rate of pay. I'm not supporting this agreement! I think it's a joke and am insulted that the IUAW thinks we can't see through their shabby attempts on here to sell us this crap! Find another buyer! Like I've said, go back to the table and bring back something reasonable because this is a joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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