Watch out Oakville and St. Thomas

[rt2525]

But the members in Oakville think the CAW is grand, and will bow to Lewenza's feet every he walks past.

 

I can understand your bitterness but to direct it at the brothers and sisters at OAC is just wrong.STAP'ers have a lot more friends and backers at OAC than you think.

Later-I'm off to Hamilton for the vote.

[Cocheese]

I can understand your bitterness but to direct it at the brothers and sisters at OAC is just wrong.STAP'ers have a lot more friends and backers at OAC than you think.

Later-I'm off to Hamilton for the vote.

 

It's not the members at OAC, it's the leadership of the National that has my furor.

[fpsguy]

I can understand your bitterness but to direct it at the brothers and sisters at OAC is just wrong.STAP'ers have a lot more friends and backers at OAC than you think.

Later-I'm off to Hamilton for the vote.

This is my first time posting on this sight but I could no longer hold my anger in. The tentative agreement that was reached by our Brothers and Sisters is the worst I have ever seen. (in 22 years) I was greatly dissapointed at the rush to ratify without more information that followed the presentation. I am not at all surprised that the Convention center was booked for ratification even before the talks in Toronto got under way.

I voted No for several reasons but my main concern is the cut off dates for severance and retirement packages. The agreement gives several options to us but the language punishes employees who have birthdays that land one month or two months "late". The agreement should have included pro-rated packages that could easily take this into account. The sister who asked about retirement being in the "younger group" was right but I fear most people didn't understand or get the bad situation some 500 employees at STAP are in. We are not allowed to retire at age 50 as per other agreements simply because we will not reach that age during the 1.9 years of layoff. This means we won't be eligible untill 55. We do not get a car voucher either. We are allowed to go to Oakville (assuming there is employment) but we will start with the lowest seniority on an assembly line after 24 years of service! The agreement should have included the ability to close out the STAP closure agreement at another plant. This might take 2,3 or 4 years or whatever but we would atleast take advantage of the closure agreement and retire with pension buy attaining credits at another plant. This could easily have been included in the package or pro rate all retirement packages according to years of service so no one is at a disadvantage. By the way ,the 55 retirement package outside of this agreement is greatly reduced. I hope this agreement doesn't pass. Vote NO!

P.S. Why would any assembly operator give up a whole break every day and build 16 free cars a shift! Do any of the Union members negotiating this even remember what working on the line was like. Why did you sell us out.

[justnthrmushroom]

This is my first time posting on this sight but I could no longer hold my anger in. The tentative agreement that was reached by our Brothers and Sisters is the worst I have ever seen. (in 22 years) I was greatly dissapointed at the rush to ratify without more information that followed the presentation. I am not at all surprised that the Convention center was booked for ratification even before the talks in Toronto got under way.

I voted No for several reasons but my main concern is the cut off dates for severance and retirement packages. The agreement gives several options to us but the language punishes employees who have birthdays that land one month or two months "late". The agreement should have included pro-rated packages that could easily take this into account. The sister who asked about retirement being in the "younger group" was right but I fear most people didn't understand or get the bad situation some 500 employees at STAP are in. We are not allowed to retire at age 50 as per other agreements simply because we will not reach that age during the 1.9 years of layoff. This means we won't be eligible untill 55. We do not get a car voucher either. We are allowed to go to Oakville (assuming there is employment) but we will start with the lowest seniority on an assembly line after 24 years of service! The agreement should have included the ability to close out the STAP closure agreement at another plant. This might take 2,3 or 4 years or whatever but we would atleast take advantage of the closure agreement and retire with pension buy attaining credits at another plant. This could easily have been included in the package or pro rate all retirement packages according to years of service so no one is at a disadvantage. By the way ,the 55 retirement package outside of this agreement is greatly reduced. I hope this agreement doesn't pass. Vote NO!

P.S. Why would any assembly operator give up a whole break every day and build 16 free cars a shift! Do any of the Union members negotiating this even remember what working on the line was like. Why did you sell us out.

 

The only "pattern" to this proposed agreement are the pro-company parts.

[stap1520]

The only "pattern" to this proposed agreement are the pro-company parts.

exactly why didnt we get the closure agreement gm and crysler got?

after 25 years they got a buyout huge amount car voucher and full pension after grown in

we get to choose a buyout only if we take step and sever ties with the company...

we get penalized for not being 50 yet also but with 28 years or less you are screwed

might not be any jobs at oakville either...they should have gave people with 25 26 27 years a better chance to retire so the younger ones with 11 years or so could go to oac...

[tbill]

exactly why didnt we get the closure agreement gm and crysler got?

after 25 years they got a buyout huge amount car voucher and full pension after grown in

we get to choose a buyout only if we take step and sever ties with the company...

we get penalized for not being 50 yet also but with 28 years or less you are screwed

might not be any jobs at oakville either...they should have gave people with 25 26 27 years a better chance to retire so the younger ones with 11 years or so could go to oac...

Exactly.....I have 25 at OAC and believe me....I am ready to go, and if it helps someone from STAP stay employed....a win-win situation :shades: Perhaps they will rethink their position...although don't hold your breath

[STAP130]

It is what it is.

I understand everyone's frustration and it certainly isn't unjustified.

However, failure to ratify this agreement will NOT make any improvements.

They are NOT going back to the table to negotiate if this isn't ratified. All parties have stated that in case of rejection, we return to the current collective agreement. Ford will STILL close STAP. Only our buyout will be whatever is in that current agreement. (considerably less than the newly negotiated one)

 

There is a lot of people whining on here about the timing of the future commitments for Oakville. Those commitments need to be in place in ADVANCE of the 2012 contract so that work on implementing them can begin. If you wait until 2012 to negotiate them, those products will already have found life at another facility.

 

Nobody is happy. Our union for whatever reasons failed to win us the agreement we all wanted. But arguing about it and rejecting this contract out of spite will do nothing but hurt ourselves and each other.

Our union leadership were incapable of negotiating anything better. Do you trust them to take another crack at it in 2011? I know I don't.

Edited November 1, 2009 by STAP130

[rt2525]

Exactly.....I have 25 at OAC and believe me....I am ready to go, and if it helps someone from STAP stay employed....a win-win situation :shades: Perhaps they will rethink their position...although don't hold your breath

Ditto-25.5 years myself. If we got the GM deal I could gaurantee there would be at least 1 more opening at OAC,possibly up to 200.

(Trimdingdong will be there til he croaks , still waiting for the return of COLA)

A few personal observations from todays vote-

Looked like well over2000 showed up(not bad considering we were down last week)

Just from the people I talked to,I'm guessing it passed in the 70% range (no comment)

One committeeman claimed STAP passed by over 60%(wouldn't say who told him)

 

Hoping all works out for everyone at STAP!

[Edsel]

Reading the BS from the majority here leads me to think maybe the media was right about auto workers. Uneducated, overpaid whiners! I'm proud of my Union and my leadership. Too bad we have 10% of the membership that spoil it for the rest.

 

Ed.

[Pinkly Taurus]

This is what gets me. Ford's internal rankings come out, and Oakville is once again at the bottom of everything. They've already been told to pull their socks up or Chicago will be getting a lot more work. Everyone who has ever stepped foot in there has coming out shaking their head at what goes on. At the same time, with no investment, and not much hope, STAP still remains as one of Ford's finest plants for quality, productivity and profitability.

 

So did Ford choose Oakville over St Thomas, or did the CAW? Because we all know a few years ago when it came time to investing in a Canadian facility, the CAW was fighting for Oakville. And we all just saw how easily the bent over in this negotiation.

 

 

 

Ford isn't going to be the first company to move out of Canada (they might not be the last either, but they won't be the first). The CAW knows no matter what, there will be an assembly plant with Ford's name on it here. So the CAW is willing to throw STAP under the bus and agree to letting the plant close in two years, hope the quality and productivity falls off, to lose the clear advantage STAP has over OAC, get the doors bolted shut, and OAC biggest competitor is gone. Who cares if now 1,600 members in St Thomas now despise the CAW, they're gone. But the members in Oakville think the CAW is grand, and will bow to Lewenza's feet every he walks past.

 

Could it be that CAW is a business and there are more dues paying members at OAC to build up the bank account?

just a thought

[Pinkly Taurus]

Reading the BS from the majority here leads me to think maybe the media was right about auto workers. Uneducated, overpaid whiners! I'm proud of my Union and my leadership. Too bad we have 10% of the membership that spoil it for the rest.

 

Ed.

 

We are humbled by your superior intellect

 

We're not worthy of the little tid bits you toss us.

 

Maybe you should return to your prior profession as

a nuclear physisist where you can make life for mankind better

instead of hiding in an auto assembly plant.

[StapRoboSitter]

Reading the BS from the majority here leads me to think maybe the media was right about auto workers. Uneducated, overpaid whiners! I'm proud of my Union and my leadership. Too bad we have 10% of the membership that spoil it for the rest.

 

Ed.

 

Uneducated? Overpaid? Wow... thats a lot of pots you're trying to stir at once!

 

Why exactly are you proud? You know what happened during negotiations? I know most of it is secret and will never see the light of day... my version?

 

Ken: "STAP will remain open, if not fuck off"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK fine... we'll give in to what you want but STAP Stays open"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK fine... STAP is closing but we want our 13% footprint"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK Fine... we'll leave it at 10%... and you'll let us keep the product freshening that has already been in the books for months? Wow... we rock"

 

... Yes exaggeration... I wasn't there I have no idea either... the bottom line is we have NO Leg to stand on here... what we're going to strike, in the middle of a Contract? Ken can scream until he's blue in the face, he has no power here... Ford of Canada is reported to have the highest labour costs in the world... True? Who knows... the media says it so it MUST Be true... Ford has every right to pull out of the Country, plenty of excess Capacity in the States... so... am I thankful that we got something agree'd to that will at least be of benefit to SOMEONE? Yes... Unfortunatly for me, those that Benefit are the company that is poised to boot my ass out the door, and workers in another plant 5 hours up the road (assuming traffic)...

 

The company's job is to make money.... its our job to build cars (or ensure our geriatric automation behaves)... Someone in Blue Oval HQ has decided that they've gotten tired of the CashCow that is St.Thomas... Taurus is going to be THE Ford Car of the late 2000's... of course no one seems to have remembered one of the big things that killed off the Original Taurus (90% production was fleet in the last year, so I hear) and the CV/GM... Why buy a car brand new for 40K when you can get a 1 year old one for 20K because of Excessive fleet sales... Oh wait... all the people who made those mistakes years ago were fired or bought out or left to work for Hyundai!! oh wait... The Taurus won't remain saleable after 2 years of Police-duty... so they'll have to buy new ones again!!! BRILLIANT!! oh wait... who wants a car that won't take the punishment? we all see how Impala's and Charger's are just FLYING off the shelves after their initial offering... BUT... once again we aren't paid to think.... even though a good 75% of us have much more effective grey matter than most at HQ... (the other 25% drink too much or spend their brain power screwing the system)

 

oo another idea... (ADHD, bear with me) why not eliminate the Dead weight who are Benefit sponges (you know who I'm refering to... never at work, always bitching when they are or bending the system to get the best job or pissing off the foreman off so much they are told to wait in the corner) ... oh wait, that wouldn't be very Unionish of us now would it...

[foxrun]

exactly why didnt we get the closure agreement gm and crysler got?

after 25 years they got a buyout huge amount car voucher and full pension after grown in

we get to choose a buyout only if we take step and sever ties with the company...

we get penalized for not being 50 yet also but with 28 years or less you are screwed

might not be any jobs at oakville either...they should have gave people with 25 26 27 years a better chance to retire so the younger ones with 11 years or so could go to oac...

 

what pattern?

[rt2525]

Ford Oakville pass’s the tentative agreement, 89.5% Production, 90.6% Trades. Still awaiting totals from other locations.

 

E-mail from Ron Balazs

[CDN007]

[quote

 

 

oo another idea... (ADHD, bear with me) why not eliminate the Dead weight who are Benefit sponges (you know who I'm refering to... never at work, always bitching when they are or bending the system to get the best job or pissing off the foreman off so much they are told to wait in the corner) ... oh wait, that wouldn't be very Unionish of us now would it...

 

 

Fucking right, that kind of bull shit kills us. There are the people that are hurt, and the ones who just fuck us all and laugh in our face while they push a cart around the floor following the guys doing work. JOKE

[Cocheese]

Could it be that CAW is a business and there are more dues paying members at OAC to build up the bank account?

just a thought

 

I believe you are 100% correct. It's better to have the minority mad at you then the majority.

 

Funny thing is, I thought "we were all equal". I guess that's just like the rest of the CAW; bullshit

 

Why exactly are you proud? You know what happened during negotiations? I know most of it is secret and will never see the light of day... my version?

 

Ken: "STAP will remain open, if not fuck off"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK fine... we'll give in to what you want but STAP Stays open"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK fine... STAP is closing but we want our 13% footprint"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK Fine... we'll leave it at 10%... and you'll let us keep the product freshening that has already been in the books for months? Wow... we rock"

 

 

My version is;

 

Ford: We want two tier

Ken: No way, I said I would never accept it. I never will

Ford: You accept it, STAP lives on

Ken: I don't care about STAP, I am too egotistical to back down from this

Ford: If you say no, 1,600 members are gone

Ken: Don't care. If I give it to you, GM and Chrysler will come back wanting it, and I don't want to let my boys at Chrysler down

Ford: So be it, STAP is dead

Ken: Can you at least let them keep their break schedule?

Ford: Sure thing Kenny

Ken: Perfect (check my sheet to remember which local it is). The folks at 1520 can thank me for that

 

oo another idea... (ADHD, bear with me) why not eliminate the Dead weight who are Benefit sponges (you know who I'm refering to... never at work, always bitching when they are or bending the system to get the best job or pissing off the foreman off so much they are told to wait in the corner) ... oh wait, that wouldn't be very Unionish of us now would it...

 

Because the dead weight is what keeps the union believing they are necessary . Without it, the union's importance would be lessened. And we know which plant has more dead weight. And it ain't the one that just got shafted

[Edsel]

I believe you are 100% correct. It's better to have the minority mad at you then the majority.

 

Funny thing is, I thought "we were all equal". I guess that's just like the rest of the CAW; bullshit

 

 

 

 

My version is;

 

Ford: We want two tier

Ken: No way, I said I would never accept it. I never will

Ford: You accept it, STAP lives on

Ken: I don't care about STAP, I am too egotistical to back down from this

Ford: If you say no, 1,600 members are gone

Ken: Don't care. If I give it to you, GM and Chrysler will come back wanting it, and I don't want to let my boys at Chrysler down

Ford: So be it, STAP is dead

Ken: Can you at least let them keep their break schedule?

Ford: Sure thing Kenny

Ken: Perfect (check my sheet to remember which local it is). The folks at 1520 can thank me for that

 

 

 

Because the dead weight is what keeps the union believing they are necessary . Without it, the union's importance would be lessened. And we know which plant has more dead weight. And it ain't the one that just got shafted

 

 

You really are a piece of work. I bet your mommy is proud.

 

Ed.

[Cocheese]

You really are a piece of work. I bet your mommy is proud.

 

Ed.

 

She is.

 

I'm guessing yours isn't. that's you you are a loud mouth drunk sitting behind your computer who exemplifies everything that is wrong with the union.

[400member]

Uneducated? Overpaid? Wow... thats a lot of pots you're trying to stir at once!

 

Why exactly are you proud? You know what happened during negotiations? I know most of it is secret and will never see the light of day... my version?

 

Ken: "STAP will remain open, if not fuck off"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK fine... we'll give in to what you want but STAP Stays open"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK fine... STAP is closing but we want our 13% footprint"

Ford: "STAP is going to close"

Ken: "OK OK OK Fine... we'll leave it at 10%... and you'll let us keep the product freshening that has already been in the books for months? Wow... we rock"

 

... Yes exaggeration... I wasn't there I have no idea either... the bottom line is we have NO Leg to stand on here... what we're going to strike, in the middle of a Contract? Ken can scream until he's blue in the face, he has no power here... Ford of Canada is reported to have the highest labour costs in the world... True? Who knows... the media says it so it MUST Be true... Ford has every right to pull out of the Country, plenty of excess Capacity in the States... so... am I thankful that we got something agree'd to that will at least be of benefit to SOMEONE? Yes... Unfortunatly for me, those that Benefit are the company that is poised to boot my ass out the door, and workers in another plant 5 hours up the road (assuming traffic)...

 

The company's job is to make money.... its our job to build cars (or ensure our geriatric automation behaves)... Someone in Blue Oval HQ has decided that they've gotten tired of the CashCow that is St.Thomas... Taurus is going to be THE Ford Car of the late 2000's... of course no one seems to have remembered one of the big things that killed off the Original Taurus (90% production was fleet in the last year, so I hear) and the CV/GM... Why buy a car brand new for 40K when you can get a 1 year old one for 20K because of Excessive fleet sales... Oh wait... all the people who made those mistakes years ago were fired or bought out or left to work for Hyundai!! oh wait... The Taurus won't remain saleable after 2 years of Police-duty... so they'll have to buy new ones again!!! BRILLIANT!! oh wait... who wants a car that won't take the punishment? we all see how Impala's and Charger's are just FLYING off the shelves after their initial offering... BUT... once again we aren't paid to think.... even though a good 75% of us have much more effective grey matter than most at HQ... (the other 25% drink too much or spend their brain power screwing the system)

 

oo another idea... (ADHD, bear with me) why not eliminate the Dead weight who are Benefit sponges (you know who I'm refering to... never at work, always bitching when they are or bending the system to get the best job or pissing off the foreman off so much they are told to wait in the corner) ... oh wait, that wouldn't be very Unionish of us now would it...

 

this is not your union allowing this or propograting the practices. Management lets all of this happen..weak management lets more happen. Mgt gets the credit for the failure to operate the plant or business.. the problem is they lay it off on the union and the union allows them to. Mgt fails to demand all levels to perform, they all still get the money and bonuses without fail!! rewarding failure is mgts standard operating procedure.. sos

[Edsel]

She is.

 

I'm guessing yours isn't. that's you you are a loud mouth drunk sitting behind your computer who exemplifies everything that is wrong with the union.

 

Enjoy your sad, sad life after the CAW. Sorry, about your misguided vision about what the CAW owes you. Maybe the real world with NO Union is more your style. I for one won't miss ingrates like you.

 

Ed.

[roggie13]

Enjoy your sad, sad life after the CAW. Sorry, about your misguided vision about what the CAW owes you. Maybe the real world with NO Union is more your style. I for one won't miss ingrates like you.

 

Ed.

You are quite a piece of work Ed, in 3 years you will be in the same boat as we are in at STAP then we will see what you think about your beloved union!

[StapRoboSitter]

this is not your union allowing this or propograting the practices. Management lets all of this happen..weak management lets more happen. Mgt gets the credit for the failure to operate the plant or business.. the problem is they lay it off on the union and the union allows them to. Mgt fails to demand all levels to perform, they all still get the money and bonuses without fail!! rewarding failure is mgts standard operating procedure.. sos

 

Yes but the Union defends these people... and the cost/benefit ratio isn't there with the company to have someone's who's sole job is to ensure that the system is properly policed... There are hard rules, though the honor system still is in place... sure, we are all allowed to get Orthotic inserts... how many of us really need them? Just because the benefit is there doesn't mean it has to be used...

 

They aren't doing anything wrong, its just wasteful... the concept of the Company owing you and trying to get every cent from their pocket that you can... Is that what our retiree's fought hard for to get these benefits? So spoiled little lazy bitches can take advantage of Papa Ford?

 

Yes Management is a HUGE issue at STAP... last 2 plant Managers fired? (Sorry, Ken Ward "resigned"). People have been milking the Cash Cow before HQ could get their hands on it... and this is our punishment... who really knows how our workers are seen from VO's eyes... they only see the picture that is painted by our Salaried folk

[stapworker]

The full result's are up on the CAW website. http://www.caw.ca/en/8019.htm

 

I have already started looking for a new job, it's to bad though cause I liked the people I worked with at STAP we had a lot of fun.

 

Get ready Oakville your next.

[Cocheese]

Enjoy your sad, sad life after the CAW. Sorry, about your misguided vision about what the CAW owes you. Maybe the real world with NO Union is more your style. I for one won't miss ingrates like you.

 

Ed.

 

My attitude and work ethic makes me a value to the companies I have worked for, and will work for in the future. Your attitude and work ethic is why companies shut down their operations and move them else where.

 

At some point I would expect you to use what is suppose to be between your ears and come up with a response that contains a thought at the adult level. But since it is clear there is nothing between your ears, keep the personal threats and insults coming.

 

You are the reason the public has no respect for autoworkers. Such a sad pathetic little person you are

[shamrock157]

The big problem with the way this went down , is the fact that the CAW does not allow the members time to look over the offer and make an educated decision . The high pressure tactics they use at the ratification meetings is nothing short of despicable . If the CAW was a business or individual , they would not get away with it . The results may not have been much different , but people would feel more comfortable about having time to make a rational decision . There is a large group of individuals at STAP who did not make out all that good with this package . We at least owe it to them to make an educated decision , not one based on a doomsday scenario .

http://www.gov.on.ca/mgs/en/ConsProt/STEL02_045917.html

Edited November 2, 2009 by shamrock157