Watch out Oakville and St. Thomas

[jsh0071]

Typical hammerhead mouth-piece. Zip it before I tell your mother. Besides what are you afraid of? OAC voted no last time and still gets the lions share of the "commitments".

STAP spent 40+ years pissing off the Glasshouse. OAC has nothing to be concerned about.

YOU ARE A FUCKING DICKHEAD , what do you think "FLEX" means you brainless moron . STAP now OAC later you brain surgeon.

[ute]

ED.....i am a retiree and i know that a yes vote is good for me ...but i would rather see the guys turn this down

 

 

what can you say there getting for this ...nothing !!!!

 

a veiled promise for Oakville ..thats it

 

 

As for Barny ..for me its just i would want to know that a had a chair that is in there fighting and standing up for my plant

 

for me its just i never saw Scott as a fighter ....but this is all moot now anyway

 

 

just think and ask questions ( if you can ).........................VOTE NO

[bubba11]

We've got the Dream team for 2 hours. Does not leave alot of time to really get into this.

[BT]

Go for it. I'm done. If you don't have faith in the recommendations of your bargaining committee, then you and your local is in deep shit.

 

Ed.

You ARE one dumb FUCK!!!!! His job and his local are gone in 1 1/2 years... STFU You idoit!!!

[Pinkly Taurus]

I have this vision of the Wizard of OZ.

You know the scene i'm talking about.

Its the one where Dorthy, the Lion, the Tin man and the Scare crow are in the castle of the great oz

and they pull back the curtain only to expose Edsel as the frail cowardly person he is.

 

All I can say at this time is i really feel for the members at stap and if it was

myself in their position i would appreciate support.

Good luck Stap'ers

Edited October 31, 2009 by Pinkly Taurus

[jsh0071]

I have this vision of the Wizard of OZ.

You know the scene i'm talking about.

Its the one where Dorthy, the Lion, the Tin man and the Scare crow are in the castle of the great oz

and they pull back the curtain only to expose Edsel as the frail cowardly person he is.

 

All I can say at this time is i really feel for the members at stap and if it was

myself in their position i would appreciate support.

Good luck Stap'ers

You know I've never really felt this angry in my entire life , I'm not a mean person but this is really over the top. I pay money to these people every month and they are SELLING ME OUT. I don't wish OAC any ill will but man the CAW is just a ME ME outfit , the've got thiers and fuck you if you don't like it!! If I was at OAC I'd be wary cause they're coming for you next!!

 

Jim Halonen , Kawasaki Line STAP.

If you have a problem BRING IT!!

[noimports]

All STAP members posting here have shown... NO brains................go ahead, vote no. Feel proud. Look at your girlfriend. Feel proud. Look at your wife, feel proud. Proud you made your mind up BEFORE you listened. Very intelligent, you bunch from London and surrounding area. Please don't offer me any of your water when I pass by.

 

Ed.

If i do I will piss in it first F%#k ED

[iluvnascar]

It's not surprising that St. Thomas is closing....after all, there is no product for the plant after the death of the CV/GM line. But where is the effort to find SOMETHING for the Plant to keep people working and the economy moving?

 

Through just nine months of 2009, Hyundai Canada and its 39% owned subsidiary, Kia, have sold 119,048 vehicles.......none of which were assembled in Canada. That's an annualized level of 159 thousand vehicles.....which equates to a full year of 40 units per hour on two shifts at a plant like St. Thomas. Hyundai and Kia also sold 580,787 units in the US through September.......an annualized rate of 774 thousand vehicles in what is universally recognized as a terrible sales year! These numbers will undoubtedly go much higher as market conditions improve. (Note: Hyundai has one U.S. assembly plant).

 

If we are, indeed, intent on maintaining employment for the St. Thomas crew and helping the local (and national) economy, our political leaders (if any of them is interested?) need to speak frankly with Hyundai/Kia management and encourage them to strike a deal with Ford and take over the Ford St. Thomas Plant. Ford is a responsible employer and I am sure that they would want to minimize the impact of any closure........and what better way to do that than to keep the Plant operating with a new owner? Armed with a competitive labour agreement courtesy of the CAW and the affected employees; and with $1.0-$1.5 Billion in forgiveable interest-free loans, I believe the Hyundai/Kia could be brought on board. Admittedly, $1.5 Billion is a lot of money but it's far less than Canada handed to Chrysler and GM; and it's far less than we will wind up paying in EI benefits, welfare payments, bankruptcy filings, and incalculable social and economic collateral damage.

 

But alas....there isn't one politician out there who is interested in actually doing something proactive. So down the drain goes 1600 jobs and another 12-15000 spinoff jobs. Tragic is too simple a word to describe the end result.

[Blue Oval Guide]

STOP the threats, especially posting from a Ford computer before Ford security starts looking into this.

 

You are a fucking asshole. Plain and simple.....did I just say simple....... you have seen your beloved truck plant go down and now you are hammering a nail in OAC? Simple Simon? Pound your chest you fuck wad. PM me so we can get together so I can slap the fuck out of you head. Simple Simon!!

 

 

Ed.

 

I will not fail to do so. You simpletons are starting to piss me off!

 

 

You have a PM. Set it up. We'll see if I'm a scared little fuck! You shit heads with 15 or less years think they know it all. Yes, you are so hard done by. My fight is NOT with Ford now. It's with you fuck wads that are yelling NO without knowing the whole story. I would love to smack some sense into you. Please allow me the opportunity. I will feed you your own balls tough guy.

 

Ed.

[shoemaker]

Why the admin don't ban this dude?

It's about time to do it for a person without any kind of respect for his/hers fellas.

Ban this dude from this site.

Edited October 31, 2009 by shoemaker

[Bareback_Avenger]

You forgot this part.....

Ford has also committed to providing funds to set up an action

centre to assist workers who are unemployed as a result of the closure.

The commitment for the new global platform is huge for OAP, meaning they will become one of 7 assembly plants in NA. Also means that they will be going on 3 shifts when the platforms in place and the economy turns around. STAPers need to find out if they'll have preferential hiring at OAP, or even Windsor. OAP will need approx 1000 people for a 3rd shift. The 10% commitment is actually better then the projected 8% when Stap closes.

STAP was/is closing regardless of these negotiations. All you could hope for was a good severance, preferential hiring etc. Oh and you can hide that big payout. You need to get in touch with the right financial adviser.

Anyway, I'll be at the meeting to hear the details before I start screaming good/bad indifferent. From what I see so far, I'm voting yes.

I also look at it this way. We elected our representatives, and they in turn negotiate the best contract they feel they can get. For any of you to suggest that these guys are doing something to screw us is kind of lame. I don't buy it. All the reps from all the plants agree with this contract.

 

One last thing...I saw someone refer to the UAW having balls :shades: , and us being the pansies....I say to you, that our proposed contracts are different.

Good luck to all over the weekend, and remember if you're unsure about anything ask questions, and listen to what is said before making your final decision.

 

Oh and Ed...take a downer dude. I know it's frustrating but name calling and such gets all of US nowhere.

 

 

The commitment for the new global platform would be huge for OAC, if it was a guaranty! The word "commitment" doesn't mean shit, and from what I've read in the meadia ford is not planning on starting the "global platform" at OAC until sometime after 2012. Gee isn't that convienent, if these current negotiations go through that means this new contract expires in 2012, now that commitment is gone and we will have to re-negotiate for it again! We have seen this time and time again empty promises like usual and our National Union knows it. :blah: We took concessions all the cocessions I am willing to take last year! Everyone has the right to vote which ever way they want, but ford won't stop here and I think we should follow in our UAW brothers and sisters foot steps and give Ford a big F@#K YOU from Canada!!! Damn I wish these posts had the option for a middle finger icon :shades:

Edited October 31, 2009 by Bareback_Avenger

[fastime]

The commitment for the new global platform would be huge for OAC, if it was a guaranty! The word "commitment" doesn't mean shit, and from what I've read in the meadia ford is not planning on starting the "global platform" at OAC until sometime after 2012. Gee isn't that convienent, if these current negotiations go through that means this new contract expires in 2012, now that commitment is gone and we will have to re-negotiate for it again! We have seen this time and time again empty promises like usual and our National Union knows it. :blah: We took concessions all the cocessions I am willing to take last year! Everyone has the right to vote which ever way they want, but ford won't stop here and I think we should follow in our UAW brothers and sisters foot steps and give Ford a big F@#K YOU from Canada!!! Damn I wish these posts had the option for a middle finger icon :shades:

 

+1

 

VOTE NO!!!!

[Cocheese]

+1

 

VOTE NO!!!!

 

+2

[OACville]

Why I will not vote No.

 

I will not vote no because there are a bunch of posters screaming vote no because they are thinking of themselves first and how this affects them. I will not vote no just because there are concessions. I will wait to listen to what the union has to say before i vote yes or I vote no.

 

STAP. Sorry about your luck. OAC backed you last contract but you did not back yourself so now you have to look in the mirror. The time to develop a backbone is not now. The time was last contract when you collectively voted yes. Some your members come on here and bad mouth OAC and their workers, quality, bash the CAW etc. then quickly put in a VOTE NO.

Why are you afraid of letting people make up their own minds instead of trying to influence them for your own selfish reasons.

 

Go to the Hall and listen to what the CAW has to say. If you don't like it then vote No if you dont like it or if you think the closure package could be better. If its acceptable then vote yes.

I will see how this affects the Skilled Trades and Retirees before I decide which way to vote.

[justnthrmushroom]

I did find this interesting, I believe it was Ken Lewenza who stated this morning that Ford intends to now close 8 more North American facilities in the coming years to eliminate over-capacity.

So, doesn't this mean that even if the remaining facilities ratify agreements you are ultimately in harms way. Ford also claimed in negotiations they would start to pull all production from Canada immediately if we did not ratify a concessionary agreement. This is intervention by Ford violated our Labour Laws regarding collective agreements.

 

STAP is now an after thought. Oakville and Windsor you need to get guarantees not "commitments" that for the most part do not even take place within the timeframe of the agreement you are being asked to ratify. Also, ask why this would be a pattern agreement. It is not the same as either GM or Chrysler and your agreement will not be the same as STAP's.

 

Anyway... off to plan for the future.

[bodybodybody]

the committment to OAC seems worthless to me, as it states 2012 when were do for another contract, and im sure we will have to give up the farm for the products to come through, as far as im concerned were in the same predicament in 2012 i hope its a NO vote but i have a feeling this may fly hopefull STAP slams this deal and OAC has enough split that we send them back to get a real committment.

[fastime]

Why I will not vote No.

 

I will not vote no because there are a bunch of posters screaming vote no because they are thinking of themselves first and how this affects them. I will not vote no just because there are concessions. I will wait to listen to what the union has to say before i vote yes or I vote no.

 

STAP. Sorry about your luck. OAC backed you last contract but you did not back yourself so now you have to look in the mirror. The time to develop a backbone is not now. The time was last contract when you collectively voted yes. Some your members come on here and bad mouth OAC and their workers, quality, bash the CAW etc. then quickly put in a VOTE NO.

Why are you afraid of letting people make up their own minds instead of trying to influence them for your own selfish reasons.

 

Go to the Hall and listen to what the CAW has to say. If you don't like it then vote No if you dont like it or if you think the closure package could be better. If its acceptable then vote yes.

I will see how this affects the Skilled Trades and Retirees before I decide which way to vote.

 

ummmm that was today.

[silverboy31]

:hyper:

Edited October 31, 2009 by silverboy31

[GuyfromSTAP]

Wow sure caught me off guard.Hired in 87 and will have no buyout option.I'll get what I would of even without the closing agreement.(2 yrs sub 1 year imp)Can't collect pension till 2017.As the sister said at the meeting there is approx 400 of u in the same boat who the union did absolutely nothing for.Older guys with over 28 also didn't get anything.I'm guessing any yes votes come from low senority or the small group of 26-28 year guys.

It'll be interesting to see Oakville and Windsor's take as their is nothing in stone for them other then losses to what they have.IMO I just don't see how thi has a chance of passing even with the union's scare tactics that FMC will leave Canada.

I guess an ok for a young person that has a job lined up but everyone else in all locations sure took it without lube.

[justnthrmushroom]

Wow sure caught me off guard.Hired in 87 and will have no buyout option.I'll get what I would of even without the closing agreement.(2 yrs sub 1 year imp)Can't collect pension till 2017.As the sister said at the meeting there is approx 400 of u in the same boat who the union did absolutely nothing for.Older guys with over 28 also didn't get anything.I'm guessing any yes votes come from low senority or the small group of 26-28 year guys.

It'll be interesting to see Oakville and Windsor's take as their is nothing in stone for them other then losses to what they have.IMO I just don't see how thi has a chance of passing even with the union's scare tactics that FMC will leave Canada.

I guess an ok for a young person that has a job lined up but everyone else in all locations sure took it without lube.

 

Let's not assume if this passes at STAP it is because of the low seniority members. It will be because the majority of STAP members have lost hope.

[BT]

Wow sure caught me off guard.Hired in 87 and will have no buyout option.I'll get what I would of even without the closing agreement.(2 yrs sub 1 year imp)Can't collect pension till 2017.As the sister said at the meeting there is approx 400 of u in the same boat who the union did absolutely nothing for.Older guys with over 28 also didn't get anything.I'm guessing any yes votes come from low senority or the small group of 26-28 year guys.

It'll be interesting to see Oakville and Windsor's take as their is nothing in stone for them other then losses to what they have.IMO I just don't see how thi has a chance of passing even with the union's scare tactics that FMC will leave Canada.

I guess an ok for a young person that has a job lined up but everyone else in all locations sure took it without lube.

There aren't that many that are in the the 26 - 28 year range. I'm about 120/130 in senority in the plant right now and when we close in Sept. 2011 I will have 27.9 years. I'll be 48. I started in December 83.

[guilt trip]

Wow sure caught me off guard.Hired in 87 and will have no buyout option.I'll get what I would of even without the closing agreement.(2 yrs sub 1 year imp)Can't collect pension till 2017.As the sister said at the meeting there is approx 400 of u in the same boat who the union did absolutely nothing for.Older guys with over 28 also didn't get anything.I'm guessing any yes votes come from low senority or the small group of 26-28 year guys.

It'll be interesting to see Oakville and Windsor's take as their is nothing in stone for them other then losses to what they have.IMO I just don't see how thi has a chance of passing even with the union's scare tactics that FMC will leave Canada.

I guess an ok for a young person that has a job lined up but everyone else in all locations sure took it without lube.

Can I ask with all due respect, what do you expect? How many people not working for Ford get a $125k buyout should they chose so? How many people get 2 years notice that they'll be out of a job? While it sucks that STAP is closing, which has been stated for how long now, but the severance is pretty damn good.

 

As for scare tactics...I don't know of many people willing to risk their jobs to try and call Ford's bluff. It's a different scenario these days. We don't have The Auto Pact anymore so there's nothing holding Ford here. Will Ford leave if we don't pass it? Definitely possible. Will they leave even tho there's concession, still possible.

 

As for the commitment. There's nothing guaranteed in the Auto world. In case you don't know it, we work from contract to contract, and have done so since the union formed. So of course we'll be doing negotiations again in 2012, but the scenario could be a lot different, if the economy?Ford is going well. We are not in a position of strength right now and Ford is taking advantage of this, which I would also do, if it was my company.

[TheGooch]

Any word as to what the ratification results were at STAP this morning?

[charly]

Feel free to pick apart my grammar or punctuation. Why because I pointed out the fact we were not part of an International Union?

 

Losing jobs is NOT an easy thing to swallow. Blame that on the assholes who signed NAFTA. We are just trying to survive to shitstorm our passed governments have handed us. Nows not the time to attack each other, I'm truly sorry. I lost it. The enemy is not Ford, or each other. It's our fucking governments that continuously sell out to the global mantra... THE GLOBAL ECONOMY! Fuck the global economy. Let's fix the Canadian economy first!

 

Ed.

 

Game, set and MATCH!!! We squabble amongst ourselves while the various politcos are driving the economy into the abyss.

[GuyfromSTAP]

Can I ask with all due respect, what do you expect? How many people not working for Ford get a $125k buyout should they chose so? How many people get 2 years notice that they'll be out of a job? While it sucks that STAP is closing, which has been stated for how long now, but the severance is pretty damn good.

 

You didn't read my post.In the situation I'm in and alot of others(400 or so) the 125 option doesn't make sense so we are left with 2 years sub and milking a year from imp which is exactly what we'd get without this agreement.I'm happy you get 125 but for guys that have been there 18-23 years there wasn't 1 penny in severance for us that wasn't already in our agreement.So as I said for some 125 may be good but us with 18-23 yrs we got zero so not sure where you see a pretty damn good severance for those 400 or so people.If you are getting 125 you are most likely a low senority guy and the deal is better for you but us more senior guys have been left out.