Die Wahrheit Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/01/g...h_n_376015.html Yet the Rushpublicans fight against anyone else having healthcare.. Just unamerican I tell you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/01/g...h_n_376015.html Yet the Rushpublicans fight against anyone else having healthcare.. Just unamerican I tell you! I'm convinced you are an idoit. So would you say that all the servicemen and women are doing the same. Dude you are unamerican. The dud dems are wanting to give all illegals free health care, do you want that? Stop talking about reps and dems there both idoits. The whole govt. is Fu#@ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Wahrheit Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 I'm convinced you are an idoit. So would you say that all the servicemen and women are doing the same. Dude you are unamerican. The dud dems are wanting to give all illegals free health care, do you want that? Stop talking about reps and dems there both idoits. The whole govt. is Fu#@ed. servicemen and women are fighting for our country not against it like the reich wing is doing. Where did you read that illegals are getting free health care????????? You didnt you are repeating a lie and you need to stop. Talking about an IDIOT!!!or idoit as you call it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deflep1 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Die, seriously you can't be dumb enough to believe that no illegal aliens are getting free health care. It's federal law that illegal aliens have to be provided health care in emergency rooms. They can't be turned away. (Ask anyone in Texas, the illegals flood the system and make it harder for legal citizens to see a doctor) They go to the E.R. for minor things that we would see our family doctors for. The health care bill doesn't EXCLUDE illegals, so it becomes inclusive. Joe Wilson was technically right.(even CNN comfirmed this) Obama did lie when he said no illegals would get health care. Omitting the truth is a LIE. Illegals don't yet have the same rights as citizens in the health care system, but they get plenty of benefits, even though they don't pay taxes. I'm sure they will get their wish soon, to become American citizens. They will get stuck with all the new taxes that Obama wants to help pay for everything. I'm not against immigration, just illegal immigration. Become a citizen and then we'll discuss getting you health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 servicemen and women are fighting for our country not against it like the reich wing is doing. Where did you read that illegals are getting free health care????????? You didnt you are repeating a lie and you need to stop. Talking about an IDIOT!!!or idoit as you call it.... There is nothing wrong with getting health care from your employer. I get health care from Ford. If you work for the government, either as a politician or in the armed forces, and get health care, that's not socialism. It is part of your wages. It would be the same as if you recieved a higher salary, and paid for your own health insurance. When Bush was president, the Democrat supporters were all on this forum condemning the military and saying that when the Democrats get elected, they will pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Now they have all changed their tune. The left have no values and short memories. They love to be dictated to and can learn to dance to any tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordxer Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 There is nothing wrong with getting health care from your employer. I get health care from Ford. If you work for the government, either as a politician or in the armed forces, and get health care, that's not socialism. It is part of your wages. It would be the same as if you recieved a higher salary, and paid for your own health insurance. When Bush was president, the Democrat supporters were all on this forum condemning the military and saying that when the Democrats get elected, they will pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Now they have all changed their tune. The left have no values and short memories. They love to be dictated to and can learn to dance to any tune. I thought he was banned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm convinced you are an idoit. So would you say that all the servicemen and women are doing the same. Dude you are unamerican. The dud dems are wanting to give all illegals free health care, do you want that? Stop talking about reps and dems there both idoits. The whole govt. is Fu#@ed. I love when people bring up illegals and have no proof what so ever on how much it is costing us to support them. Truth is many do not ask for assistance due to being deported back to their own country period. I know Jerry you find that hard to believe but it is absolutely true. Most fly under the radar for fear of getting caught. They in fact move from place to place not to be detected and employment varies. Most are cash ( day laborer jobs ) and just think about it for a second, why do you think that Bush didn't push for them to return to their home country? Because they can work for low wages, no lawsuits do to harassment or labor rules, little time off, and above all no social security benefits, pensions, or health care benefits. Think about it, this is Big Businesses Dream here in our own back door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Die I disagree with your views o labor issues, and agree with you on health care. However the fact that you were banned from this site makes it utterly ignorant that you would post your own thread and make it obvious to the moderators that you snuck back into this site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I love when people bring up illegals and have no proof what so ever on how much it is costing us to support them. Truth is many do not ask for assistance due to being deported back to their own country period. I know Jerry you find that hard to believe but it is absolutely true. Most fly under the radar for fear of getting caught. They in fact move from place to place not to be detected and employment varies. Most are cash ( day laborer jobs ) and just think about it for a second, why do you think that Bush didn't push for them to return to their home country? Because they can work for low wages, no lawsuits do to harassment or labor rules, little time off, and above all no social security benefits, pensions, or health care benefits. Think about it, this is Big Businesses Dream here in our own back door. Wow where do i start. how bout the illegals in arizonia caught on a ranchers land and sued him for hurting them? look at at califorina all of the illegals kids go to school and speak no english, which take away from our kids, when they get sick where do they go??? and who pays for it??? wake up, pull your head out of your ass. they even get driver license in some states and they vote too thanks to acorn. they kill and comit crimes and go free. dude ther are 12 million plus.maybe you would be ok if they took your job and everybody else job at ford for 5$ an hour, that what they did to the meat packing industry, thanks to all the asshole in washington, they love the illegals, so does SEIU, yea the union. you check your facts talk to people on the boarder, hear what they say, don't take my wourd or cbs, nbs, abc or cnn's word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm convinced you are an idoit. So would you say that all the servicemen and women are doing the same. Dude you are unamerican. The dud dems are wanting to give all illegals free health care, do you want that? Stop talking about reps and dems there both idoits. The whole govt. is Fu#@ed. Yes,he is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Wow where do i start. how bout the illegals in arizonia caught on a ranchers land and sued him for hurting them? look at at califorina all of the illegals kids go to school and speak no english, which take away from our kids, when they get sick where do they go??? and who pays for it??? wake up, pull your head out of your ass. they even get driver license in some states and they vote too thanks to acorn. they kill and comit crimes and go free. dude ther are 12 million plus.maybe you would be ok if they took your job and everybody else job at ford for 5$ an hour, that what they did to the meat packing industry, thanks to all the asshole in washington, they love the illegals, so does SEIU, yea the union. you check your facts talk to people on the boarder, hear what they say, don't take my wourd or cbs, nbs, abc or cnn's word. Because Glen Beck told me so! The poster above who said that the illegal problem is caused by the greed of big business is correct. Keeping them illegal pulls down all of our wages. Our kids can't get jobs for more than minimum wage. This is just what the fat cats want, a compliant, cheap, workforce that is afraid to speak up or afraid to quit because of health insurance tied to their employer. The guys at Fox who try to spread scare stories work for the establishment, not for working people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Because Glen Beck told me so! The poster above who said that the illegal problem is caused by the greed of big business is correct. Keeping them illegal pulls down all of our wages. Our kids can't get jobs for more than minimum wage. This is just what the fat cats want, a compliant, cheap, workforce that is afraid to speak up or afraid to quit because of health insurance tied to their employer. The guys at Fox who try to spread scare stories work for the establishment, not for working people. So i guess obama is working for us......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtpworker1993 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Why do yall respond to his threads? He is the biggest dumbass on this site..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelincolns Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Because Glen Beck told me so! The poster above who said that the illegal problem is caused by the greed of big business is correct. Keeping them illegal pulls down all of our wages. Our kids can't get jobs for more than minimum wage. This is just what the fat cats want, a compliant, cheap, workforce that is afraid to speak up or afraid to quit because of health insurance tied to their employer. The guys at Fox who try to spread scare stories work for the establishment, not for working people. Most if not all conservatives state they are for a free market economy but not so when it comes to labor but only for the upper management fat cats. They were up in arms when Congress wanted executive salaries to be capped when their company took government money but never said a word when some Senators demanded the workers make the same as implants. If the free market reigned in crop picking there would not be a problem in getting enough Americans who wanted to do the job because they might need to pay $20-$30/hour to do it but they would rather use illegals who will work for a fraction of what the job is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Because Glen Beck told me so! The poster above who said that the illegal problem is caused by the greed of big business is correct. Keeping them illegal pulls down all of our wages. Our kids can't get jobs for more than minimum wage. This is just what the fat cats want, a compliant, cheap, workforce that is afraid to speak up or afraid to quit because of health insurance tied to their employer. The guys at Fox who try to spread scare stories work for the establishment, not for working people. Thank You for getting it. Obviously Jerry does not. Bonehead. Big Business are using the Mexican people for their own slave labor. It is cheaper to keep them here in our own backdoor than to have them build the product there and ship it back here. Don't be surprised one bit that Big Business might be setting up shops here as well for manufacturing and other stuff. Have you ever went to the down town area and seen them waiting for a van to pick them up only to be carted away for day labor jobs. I see this going on in our neighborhoods all the time during the construction boom. I liked to see the lawsuits that happened against businesses in Arizona. And if so how many and what for? Yes, these people are working for low wages and yes that does take away from jobs that we should have but don't blame the people.. fine the businesses that are doing this over and over again. It won't happen. Businesses are getting wealthy by undocumented people period. Like I said before, these people have no retirement age. There simply is no 30 and out. Its die and then your out. HMMM...no pensions, no spousal healthcare, no children that need healthcare, maybe an emergency visit once in a while, maybe, yeah I'm thinking Big Business knows exactly what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Thank You for getting it. Obviously Jerry does not. Bonehead. Big Business are using the Mexican people for their own slave labor. It is cheaper to keep them here in our own backdoor than to have them build the product there and ship it back here. Don't be surprised one bit that Big Business might be setting up shops here as well for manufacturing and other stuff. Have you ever went to the down town area and seen them waiting for a van to pick them up only to be carted away for day labor jobs. I see this going on in our neighborhoods all the time during the construction boom. I liked to see the lawsuits that happened against businesses in Arizona. And if so how many and what for? Yes, these people are working for low wages and yes that does take away from jobs that we should have but don't blame the people.. fine the businesses that are doing this over and over again. It won't happen. Businesses are getting wealthy by undocumented people period. Like I said before, these people have no retirement age. There simply is no 30 and out. Its die and then your out. HMMM...no pensions, no spousal healthcare, no children that need healthcare, maybe an emergency visit once in a while, maybe, yeah I'm thinking Big Business knows exactly what they are doing. OK you are fired, and i'll have an undocumented worker take your job@ $5hrGoodbye. ask ob-bam mao for some $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 How many "Big Business" firms hire illegals? I don't see GM hiring without documents, nor GE, Citibank, Boeing, or any other Fortune 500 company. Is the local carwash, lawn service, maid service, or handyman considered big business and "fat cats"? In AZ business owners are scared to death of accidentally hiring an illegal and spend extra money on processing and admin to prevent it. 1st time you are caught they shut your business down for a week. 2nd time, you are done. Imagine you are a business owner with 100 employees. If one illegal has good looking paper, but you admin didn't cross a T, none of your 100 employees get paid for a week. And if someone else who works for you makes a bad decision, 100 more people are unemployed. Is that the goal here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 How many "Big Business" firms hire illegals? I don't see GM hiring without documents, nor GE, Citibank, Boeing, or any other Fortune 500 company. Is the local carwash, lawn service, maid service, or handyman considered big business and "fat cats"? In AZ business owners are scared to death of accidentally hiring an illegal and spend extra money on processing and admin to prevent it. 1st time you are caught they shut your business down for a week. 2nd time, you are done. Imagine you are a business owner with 100 employees. If one illegal has good looking paper, but you admin didn't cross a T, none of your 100 employees get paid for a week. And if someone else who works for you makes a bad decision, 100 more people are unemployed. Is that the goal here? All the companies you mention indirectly hire illegals or employ companies that do. Almost every office cleaning company hires illegals. Wal Mart was convicted of using illegal cleaners. GM or Ford does not ask if their suppliers employ illegals or use subcontractors that do, they just drive down the price of the parts till the suppliers have no choice but to cut corners. Many of the small businesses you mention deal with large companies or banks. Greed is the reason for the tide of illegal immigration. AZ employers are just as greedy. http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog...verify-law-supr And AZ has lots of illegals too. http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?page...ch_research82b2 INS ESTIMATE The Immigration and Naturalization Service (now dissolved into the Dept. of Homeland Security) estimated in February 2003 that the population of resident illegal aliens in Arizona was 283,000 in January 2000. According to this INS estimate, only five states had higher numbers of illegal aliens than Arizona. Most of the state’s illegal alien population may be presumed to have arrived after the 1986 amnesty for illegal aliens, when nearly 83,000 applications (29,249 long-term illegal residents and 53,319 agricultural workers) were received from aliens who claimed Arizona as their residence. The illegal alien population has continued to climb since October 1992 when it was estimated at 57,000 illegal residents. The estimate by the INS was about 115,000 as of October 1996. The INS played down the apparent doubling of the illegal alien population in four years by noting that it believed the 1992 estimate should have included about 38,000 more Mexicans. The most recent estimate by DHS put the illegal poulation in the state at 500,000 in 2006. Like a lot of things..... it comes down to greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Aces, What is your plan? Arizona has tired to set up laws to prevent illegal immigration. Companies that oppose the specific law are not for illegal immigrants, they just don't like the way the bill was written. If you could lose your business for an employees poor decision in verifying paperwork, you may object. There are many proposed solutions, people disagree on how to get there. How severe should the penalties be and how does that affect all the other workers in the area. Using your example, a cleaning company employees 100 workers. Let's say 5 are illegal immigrants. 2 of the immigrants are caught at night cleaning the serivce area at Varsity Ford. Should the cleaning compnay be shut down? Should Varsity Ford be fined or shut down? How far does Varsity Ford need to go to verify it's suppliers don't do anything illegal. Let's also remember that Varsity Ford uses over 200 companies for products, supplies, and sublet. The dems are in a dilemna on this one. If you are for illegals you are against labor. If you are against illegals you are a racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Aces, What is your plan? Arizona has tired to set up laws to prevent illegal immigration. Companies that oppose the specific law are not for illegal immigrants, they just don't like the way the bill was written. If you could lose your business for an employees poor decision in verifying paperwork, you may object. There are many proposed solutions, people disagree on how to get there. How severe should the penalties be and how does that affect all the other workers in the area. Using your example, a cleaning company employees 100 workers. Let's say 5 are illegal immigrants. 2 of the immigrants are caught at night cleaning the serivce area at Varsity Ford. Should the cleaning compnay be shut down? Should Varsity Ford be fined or shut down? How far does Varsity Ford need to go to verify it's suppliers don't do anything illegal. Let's also remember that Varsity Ford uses over 200 companies for products, supplies, and sublet. The dems are in a dilemna on this one. If you are for illegals you are against labor. If you are against illegals you are a racist. So... I guess that doing nothing (the Republican way) is the answer? The Republican powers-that-be even defeated Bush and McCain when they tried for a solution to this ongoing problem. There are lots of proposed solutions but with the obstructionism at every level (due to greed) it will take a great effort to enact ANY change in the present situation which hurts immigrants, legal or not, our kids (who can't get any job to help pay for education) and drives down the price of our labor too. The UAW position is a good starting point for any reform. http://www.uaw.org/cap/08/issues/issue09.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 So... I guess that doing nothing (the Republican way) is the answer? The Republican powers-that-be even defeated Bush and McCain when they tried for a solution to this ongoing problem. There are lots of proposed solutions but with the obstructionism at every level (due to greed) it will take a great effort to enact ANY change in the present situation which hurts immigrants, legal or not, our kids (who can't get any job to help pay for education) and drives down the price of our labor too. The UAW position is a good starting point for any reform. http://www.uaw.org/cap/08/issues/issue09.php Thanks for the link. Reading the UAW position, it does not sound like they would support the AZ law as written. The UAW supports the rights of workers, and it stated that all workers (legal or not) should have good working conditions. Here's a libertarian viewpoint on immigration reform - Immigration Law Should Reflect Our Dynamic Labor Market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks for the link. Reading the UAW position, it does not sound like they would support the AZ law as written. The UAW supports the rights of workers, and it stated that all workers (legal or not) should have good working conditions. Here's a libertarian viewpoint on immigration reform - Immigration Law Should Reflect Our Dynamic Labor Market That was a good article, so why again won't they fix this problem and make them legal because Corporate Greed would have to change and pay at least a minimum wage to all those who became legal and again they would have rights to government programs, from little things like school lunches to big things like pensions and health care. It is great for Big Business not to do this. You are so wrong to say that illegals are not working for Big companies. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, sorry but you are so wrong. Why do you think that the system of ID check did not go thru when Bush was in office. This was a perfect system to get everyone who was legal registered into a computerized system. It was easy to do and took no time for companies to do this. As easy as entering payroll. What happened, all of a sudden no mention of this? They said too much government. Yeah right, too many big corps would lose immigrant workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 That was a good article, so why again won't they fix this problem and make them legal because Corporate Greed would have to change and pay at least a minimum wage to all those who became legal and again they would have rights to government programs, from little things like school lunches to big things like pensions and health care. It is great for Big Business not to do this. You are so wrong to say that illegals are not working for Big companies. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, sorry but you are so wrong. Why do you think that the system of ID check did not go thru when Bush was in office. This was a perfect system to get everyone who was legal registered into a computerized system. It was easy to do and took no time for companies to do this. As easy as entering payroll. What happened, all of a sudden no mention of this? They said too much government. Yeah right, too many big corps would lose immigrant workers. Bush was for the E- Verify, many republicans and some dems were against it. Obama has pushed off E-Verify as well. They are just now considering it as a requirement for federal contracts. I'll retract my statement that no major companies use illegal help. My experience with major companies has included background checks, drug tests, multiple tax documents. When I started with Ford, they knew a ton of info before I ever flew to Dearborn. I don't see Ford hiring illegals. Now if Ford owned 4,000 dealerships, I could see a porter or salesman slipping by out of the some 200,000+ employed at a FLM dealership. Wal Mart would be in the same position. I think construction crews or landscaping groups are much more aggressive in the solicitation of non documented workers. I don't see BOA or Kimberly Clark trying ot find illegals to work for them. As for my wrong, wrong, wrong... please link to me a story where a fortune 500 company directly and knowingly hired an illegal immigrant. I'm not looking for an expired h1b or the story with Wal Mart contracting with a cleaning company that hired illegals. For more fun here are some links: Obama delays E Verify Obama punting on Immigration reform Obama revives Bush idea to catch illegal workers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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