jpd80 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 You want an engine to really piss off the LS crowd then try a twin turbo intercooled 5.0. Even with PFI it will still put out more torque than a 7.0 liter anything and the horsepower is to die for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 You want an engine to really piss off the LS crowd then try a twin turbo intercooled 5.0.Even with PFI it will still put out more torque than a 7.0 liter anything and the horsepower is to die for. GT500 replacement, 5.0 TT 650-700 hp and...................IRS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 GT500 replacement, 5.0 TT 650-700 hp and...................IRS. Let's just say Falcon V8 owners might develop a bad stuTTer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Fixed it ; ) That'd be a pretty sweet engine, huh? Fast revving screamer...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I was hoping for a 5.0 block that was designed to compete head to head in displacement with the LS series and settle the arguments once and for all (in our favor). That's an unreasonable expectation. Ford wasn't going to build a 5.0L block that could be bored & stroked out to 7L because Ford overbuilds its engines. And let's be honest. They do. And as long as the 5.0L couldn't be bored out to 7L you'd have LS fanboys clucking at you with their piston slapping engines that are as fragile as faberge eggs, that can't take an ounce of forced induction, that get all their power from displacement, that are consistently dirtier than Ford's engines (don't think the LS engines are fragile? Well look at how they hold up to forced induction---they don't). Ford and GM have very different engine philosophies, and regardless of this message board grumbling.... 412hp from 5.0L in street tune, with incredible upside for racing...................................... You won't catch me throwing stones at a company that can deliver that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 That's an unreasonable expectation. Ford wasn't going to build a 5.0L block that could be bored & stroked out to 7L because Ford overbuilds its engines. And let's be honest. They do. And as long as the 5.0L couldn't be bored out to 7L you'd have LS fanboys clucking at you with their piston slapping engines that are as fragile as faberge eggs, that can't take an ounce of forced induction, that get all their power from displacement, that are consistently dirtier than Ford's engines (don't think the LS engines are fragile? Well look at how they hold up to forced induction---they don't). Ford and GM have very different engine philosophies, and regardless of this message board grumbling.... 412hp from 5.0L in street tune, with incredible upside for racing...................................... You won't catch me throwing stones at a company that can deliver that. +1, echos of post #98....screw 7L...that just wreeks of ineptitude in comparison....5.0 is a PERFECT displacement and the Chevy engineers must be embarassed , especially given what ford has wrung out of it ( shhhhh,and 412 is to date...expect more when someone provides a stronger fiscally viable transmission..... ahem......)....cant wait, engine sounds like a gem. :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) What's the bet that Ford's 6.2 Boss has the wood on LS engine from 6.2 to 7.0 liters. The 5.0 liter is a fine engine, it's a giant killer. Edited December 30, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzler Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 That's an unreasonable expectation. Ford wasn't going to build a 5.0L block that could be bored & stroked out to 7L because Ford overbuilds its engines. And let's be honest. They do. And as long as the 5.0L couldn't be bored out to 7L you'd have LS fanboys clucking at you with their piston slapping engines that are as fragile as faberge eggs, that can't take an ounce of forced induction, that get all their power from displacement, that are consistently dirtier than Ford's engines (don't think the LS engines are fragile? Well look at how they hold up to forced induction---they don't). Ford and GM have very different engine philosophies, and regardless of this message board grumbling.... 412hp from 5.0L in street tune, with incredible upside for racing...................................... You won't catch me throwing stones at a company that can deliver that. and 412hp is all you'll ever see from this engine. that's after the better part of a year of programming the PCM to ride the knock sensor spike by spike in order to survive on pump gas at 11:1 compression. The 5.? Boss COULD be bored out to 7L, it has, and it HAS produced over 700 HP. If you are satisfied with 412 hp and no potential for more, then the 5.0 is your engine. If you dream of what might be, what might have been, then mourn Ford's decision to prop up the modular for a few more years to keep a V8 in the Mustang. Because that's the only reason it's still around. As for durability? Large oil capacity is there to mask oiling issues. And what will the durability be for knock sensors that are constantly firing? And how does a knock sensor affect performance? It backs off on timing, reducing power output. Wonder how long 412hp will be available once you drive away from the dealer? 1,000 miles? Down the block? During cool days in Michigan? I'd rather have potential. The 5.0 is the very definition of being at death's door with no place to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 and 412hp is all you'll ever see from this engine. that's after the better part of a year of programming the PCM to ride the knock sensor spike by spike in order to survive on pump gas at 11:1 compression. The 5.? Boss COULD be bored out to 7L, it has, and it HAS produced over 700 HP. If you are satisfied with 412 hp and no potential for more, then the 5.0 is your engine. If you dream of what might be, what might have been, then mourn Ford's decision to prop up the modular for a few more years to keep a V8 in the Mustang. Because that's the only reason it's still around. As for durability? Large oil capacity is there to mask oiling issues. And what will the durability be for knock sensors that are constantly firing? And how does a knock sensor affect performance? It backs off on timing, reducing power output. Wonder how long 412hp will be available once you drive away from the dealer? 1,000 miles? Down the block? During cool days in Michigan? I'd rather have potential. The 5.0 is the very definition of being at death's door with no place to go. WRONG. and THATS from the inside....power was DIALED DOWN...repeat...DIALED DOWN.....and the days of huge cubes are numbered....just watch....displacements will start to fall, turbos will become more prevelent and EFFICIENCY will rule the roost.....the three ugly sisters will be responsible, CAFE, EPA and "profitability"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White99GT Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 and 412hp is all you'll ever see from this engine. Want to bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Want to bet? hey, if I bet him a Starbux I should be hedging....lol..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 and 412hp is all you'll ever see from this engine :rolleyes: You don't want someone to take that line and put it in their signature. You will, without doubt, see better than 412hp from that engine N/A. You will see better than 600hp all day long from that thing with forced induction. And maybe you should stop mourning about the passing of an engine that you can still buy all day long from FRP: http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine....asp?target=302 You want a engine to go racing with and go play with? Stop bellyaching because it's not for sale in a production car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 :rolleyes: You don't want someone to take that line and put it in their signature. You will, without doubt, see better than 412hp from that engine N/A. You will see better than 600hp all day long from that thing with forced induction. And maybe you should stop mourning about the passing of an engine that you can still buy all day long from FRP: http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine....asp?target=302 You want a engine to go racing with and go play with? Stop bellyaching because it's not for sale in a production car. does that racing engine pass smog? Help Cafe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzler Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 WRONG. and THATS from the inside....power was DIALED DOWN...repeat...DIALED DOWN.....and the days of huge cubes are numbered....just watch....displacements will start to fall, turbos will become more prevelent and EFFICIENCY will rule the roost.....the three ugly sisters will be responsible, CAFE, EPA and "profitability"..... Dialed down because the knock sensors were dying right and left? That's what you do when you get close to the limit, you back off a little. I will wait, but not hold my breath, for factory Ford to install a na 5.0l modular V8 in a production vehicle and claim more than 412hp. And I don't consider 413hp, or 415hp or even 420hp significant. Let's see 430 or 450hp from a na 5.0l in a production vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 does that racing engine pass smog? Help Cafe.... Exactly. People crying about the shortcomings of the mods and praising the previous small block Fords to high heaven act as though they're no longer available. They act as though Ford has deprived them of something very precious by -forcing- them to buy mod motors. You can buy all the Windsors you want from Ford. What does it matter what the potential to bore out and stroke out a production motor is, anymore? I mean, sure, you could lift the engine out of the car, take it apart, and pay some shop to machine it to perfection, and then put brand new pistons in it & c. Because that's what you'll be doing if you want a 7L Camaro. Or you could buy a blower kit, and stick it on a Mustang over the weekend and kill that 7L Camaro with a stock bottom end. ---- Sure, the LS guy will chirp at you because you're using a blower, but that's just his way of compensating for how much time and effort it took to get more power out of his mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project-Fairmont Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 What this whole deal boils down to is how will the new 5.0 (and variants) stack up against the GM LS engine series. As far as I can tell, the GM boys will contend that the LS engines go up to 7L (and associated high HP numbers), weigh less, take up less space, are less complicated, and get around the same milage. They may also say "so what" if Ford is squeezing more HP per liter as the end result is still more overall power than the 5.0s. To be honest, I was hoping for a 5.0 block that was designed to compete head to head in displacement with the LS series and settle the arguments once and for all (in our favor). If you read the GMI forums, we already get the same crap regarding the 5.0 that we got with the MODs. I was willing to sacrifice overall size, complexity, and weight for an engine that produced more overall HP than the LS engines. I'm open for fact-based reasons why the 5.0 (as wonderful as it is) will prove to be a better way to horsepower/performance than GM engines now and in the future. We need something from Ford to stuff in those old Fox Mustangs before they all get desecrated with LSes (as so many 30's Fords did with SBCs). In the real world of hot rodding (not bench racing on-line) there is one adage that holds true; there is always someone faster. If one is so worried about the LS, you can still build stroker Windsors and Clevelands that can decimate an LS on any given day. The LS has gained notority for many reasons, one of them is that it is superior to the SBC, an old engine that Ford bettered a long time ago. The modular has also gained a solid following for being easy to modify, and can hold there own in most situations...HCI is the route to stardom in an LS, blown in a Mod - take your pick. So many variables, I don't lose any sleep with my little 360 hp 302 SBF! I for one am excited for a cleaned-up deep breathing Mod that excedes BMW's excellent 400 hp 5.0 S62 motor in the $70k plus E39 M5 (MY 2000-'03). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Dialed down because the knock sensors were dying right and left? That's what you do when you get close to the limit, you back off a little. I will wait, but not hold my breath, for factory Ford to install a na 5.0l modular V8 in a production vehicle and claim more than 412hp. And I don't consider 413hp, or 415hp or even 420hp significant. Let's see 430 or 450hp from a na 5.0l in a production vehicle. nope...transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Exactly. People crying about the shortcomings of the mods and praising the previous small block Fords to high heaven act as though they're no longer available. They act as though Ford has deprived them of something very precious by -forcing- them to buy mod motors. You can buy all the Windsors you want from Ford. What does it matter what the potential to bore out and stroke out a production motor is, anymore? I mean, sure, you could lift the engine out of the car, take it apart, and pay some shop to machine it to perfection, and then put brand new pistons in it & c. Because that's what you'll be doing if you want a 7L Camaro. Or you could buy a blower kit, and stick it on a Mustang over the weekend and kill that 7L Camaro with a stock bottom end. ---- Sure, the LS guy will chirp at you because you're using a blower, but that's just his way of compensating for how much time and effort it took to get more power out of his mill. prediction 5.0 outsells the 7L 10 to one....just mention $4.50 a gallon and the publics perception the larger cubes come with mileage penalties and game over LS.....THIS engine makes the Camaros powertrains look absolutely pre-historic....FACT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Dialed down because the knock sensors were dying right and left? Bet that thing's making more than 412hp once it breaks in---I'd bet 412 is a conservative rating for that engine to start with. And who's your source on knock sensors @ 11:1. Ford's 4 cylinders are all running 10:1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzler Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Exactly. People crying about the shortcomings of the mods and praising the previous small block Fords to high heaven act as though they're no longer available. They act as though Ford has deprived them of something very precious by -forcing- them to buy mod motors. ... Actually, Ford is depriving many people by forcing them to buy mod motors. The SBC (aka LS) is very similar in size to the old flathead V8. The mod motor is two or three times bigger than a flathead (no lie, for real). That's why you see so many 32 Fords with SBC's installed. Ford is destroying its legacy by forcing people to install engines with distributors on the wrong end in old Fords. But of course, on this board, everyone pays someone else for performance, either a shop or the factory. But if you have a pre-68 vehicle, Ford is letting you down big-time. And windsors are nice crate engines, but it would be nice if Ford, unlike NASCAR, got its nose out of the sixties and updated the crate engines it sells with some modern tech, ohc's, etc that will fit in the older vehicles without punching firewalls back, pulling shock towers out and installing monster hood bubbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White99GT Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I will wait, but not hold my breath, for factory Ford to install a na 5.0l modular V8 in a production vehicle and claim more than 412hp. And I don't consider 413hp, or 415hp or even 420hp significant. Let's see 430 or 450hp from a na 5.0l in a production vehicle. Rumor has the engine was making 468 HP during testing. Makes sense, consider that's what 11.0:1 5.0L Cammers with inferior heads and no form of VCT regularly make. LMAO at knock sensors dying because the engine is "at the limit". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Actually, Ford is depriving many people by forcing them to buy mod motors. Oh. I see. But then, how come people were putting REAL SBCs (as opposed to the LS motors) in Ford street rods when you could buy even smaller and better performing windsor block motors from Ford? The whole argument is absurd. You want Ford to make an engine that cannot exist outside your imagination. You want a motor that's got the qualities of the FE, the size of the Windsor, and the technology of the Mod. And the heck with anyone who wants to supercharge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Actually, Ford is depriving many people by forcing them to buy mod motors. The SBC (aka LS) is very similar in size to the old flathead V8. The mod motor is two or three times bigger than a flathead (no lie, for real). That's why you see so many 32 Fords with SBC's installed. Ford is destroying its legacy by forcing people to install engines with distributors on the wrong end in old Fords. But of course, on this board, everyone pays someone else for performance, either a shop or the factory. But if you have a pre-68 vehicle, Ford is letting you down big-time. And windsors are nice crate engines, but it would be nice if Ford, unlike NASCAR, got its nose out of the sixties and updated the crate engines it sells with some modern tech, ohc's, etc that will fit in the older vehicles without punching firewalls back, pulling shock towers out and installing monster hood bubbles. Sizzler...please embrace the 20th century....crate engines as such are NOT for public consumption, one cannot walk into a dealership and buy a 32 Ford...the 2011 Mustang is NOT a hobbyists car....I challenge you to name ONE mainstream competitors engine of 5.0 capacity or less that measures to this engine, that CONFORMS to the necessary parameters of emissions etc and produces superior numbers...oh, and NORMALLY aspirated.....if not then back to the plastic soldiers and the Battle of Little Big horn...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Main bearing width hasn't been a problem for the Modulars, barring some issues with early production runs. About the only bearing issues you see are with high rpm, high HP (taking 1000+ rwhp) automatic cars and thrust bearings, and that's not usually the engine's fault. I know Hemiman says he saw problems with 5.4 L bucket trucks, but the issue is virtually non-existant in my experience. If the Mod motors have any minor lower end issues, it's with Ford's wrist pin supplier. But that's still not a Modular design issue Wow White99GT, You have a heck of a memory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White99GT Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Wow White99GT, You have a heck of a memory! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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