Comparison review: Minivans vs. crossovers

[PREMiERdrum]

after being a subscriber for years and noting a propensity for constant personal bias prevelent in critiques, witnessing preferential treatment for anything Toyota/ Honda/ BMW etc and domestic bashing regarless, a LOVE for stats not representitive of daily usage, just massage fodder for the writers egos....I cancelled the subscription.....none of the big three are great, but......3rd place Motor Trend.....

 

Motor Trend isn't alone... just read a comparo of cute utes in the latest Car and Driver... where they focused on "lane change" maneuver and skid-pad performance. The Mariner (no Escape was tested) came in last place behind the Suzuki, Outlander, Forrester, CRV, and the "winning" RAV4.

[Deanh]

Motor Trend isn't alone... just read a comparo of cute utes in the latest Car and Driver... where they focused on "lane change" maneuver and skid-pad performance. The Mariner (no Escape was tested) came in last place behind the Suzuki, Outlander, Forrester, CRV, and the "winning" RAV4.

case in point...SELECTIVE priorities.....actually makes perfect sense in the RAV4's case. as when the throttle is stuck wide open, one has to avoid oncoming traffic GOING THE SAME WAY....

[97 F350]

I don't come by it from a marketing gimmick standpoint, but from a personal experience standpoint. I'd much rather clamber into the 3rd row of a minivan than any 3 row vehicle with normal doors and less roof clearance.

 

I mean it doesn't happen that often, but it is an advantage that minivans have.

 

 

Agree - it is an advantage. Just not as big of one as it's made out to be. That's why I called it a marketing gimmick. Sounds like we are getting into personal preference territory. We went with the everyday - it drives so much better than a minivan, than the once in a blue moon - it's easier for an adult to get in the rear seat. Kind of like I was saying about putting a piece of plywood in a minivan. It's an advantage, but is it worth the eternal trade-offs for the one time that might actually happen?

[RichardJensen]

Why would someone who isn't a car person have a reason to mistrust Motor Trend?

Why would someone who isn't a car person even pick up a copy of Motor Trend?

 

Why would someone with half a brain trust Motor Trend?

 

It should be apparent to anyone capable of tying their own shoes and ordering a happy meal that Motor Trend is nothing more than a vehicle for the sale of advertising.

[guesswhoscomingtodinner]

Motor Trend isn't alone... just read a comparo of cute utes in the latest Car and Driver... where they focused on "lane change" maneuver and skid-pad performance. The Mariner (no Escape was tested) came in last place behind the Suzuki, Outlander, Forrester, CRV, and the "winning" RAV4.

 

 

And what exactly is wrong with that ranking?

[Deanh]

And what exactly is wrong with that ranking?

for all intents and purposes it COULD be accurate....BUT, based on previous tallying and obvious bias and a definite anti domestic twang, I take most comparos with a greain of salt...Kosher of course...lower sodium...now watch when the new 5.0 Mustang gets in a shootout....the focus ( undue ) will nop doubt be directed at the venerable ( forget UNBREAKABLE and DURABLE ) rear suspension of choice, i mean preference/ bias.....completely FORGET the fact that it will ( speculative ) have the superior numbers and fun to drive quotient....and is more user friendly on a day to day basis....these tests are nothing more than OPINIONS by a few whom consider themselves ( and some are actually quite good....SOME ) self titled experts with inevitable personal preferences reflected in their scribe....

[DC Car Examiner]

Why would someone who isn't a car person even pick up a copy of Motor Trend?

 

Why would someone with half a brain trust Motor Trend?

 

It should be apparent to anyone capable of tying their own shoes and ordering a happy meal that Motor Trend is nothing more than a vehicle for the sale of advertising.

 

I found it on Google, just like anyone else easily could. And no, there is no consensus even within the automotive community that Motor Trend reviews are of no value, much less such a bad image that it permeates the worlds of people who only care about cars once every five years or so.

[RichardJensen]

I'm sorry, but if you scratch minivans off your list because of a throwaway sentence in a 'first drive' published in what is quite clearly the 'Easy Rider' of auto mags, you're beyond help.

[DC Car Examiner]

I'm sorry, but if you scratch minivans off your list because of a throwaway sentence in a 'first drive' published in what is quite clearly the 'Easy Rider' of auto mags, you're beyond help.

 

It's simply example of that kind of mentality that permeates many statements about crossovers, as I presume you do actually understand. If you don't, you perhaps should stop calling other people "beyond help."

[Deanh]

REOOOOOOOOOW,PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT....cat fight....families or totals of 6 or more can have their minivans, after all, in reality, thats what they are for at least 95% of the time..me, I stick with post #61....

[RichardJensen]

It's simply example of that kind of mentality that permeates many statements about crossovers, as I presume you do actually understand. If you don't, you perhaps should stop calling other people "beyond help."

:rolleyes:

 

Yeah. People who are too dumb to sort out fact from hype are going to read your article and the scales will fall from their eyes.

 

And maybe one of them will send you a letter telling you how your article saved them from making a terrible mistake, and then they'll win the lottery and they'll give you a million bucks and you can buy a rocket ship and fly around the moon!

[Deanh]

:rolleyes:

 

Yeah. People who are too dumb to sort out fact from hype are going to read your article and the scales will fall from their eyes.

 

And maybe one of them will send you a letter telling you how your article saved them from making a terrible mistake, and then they'll win the lottery and they'll give you a million bucks and you can buy a rocket ship and fly around the moon!

Chucky is weathy?

[chiefstang]

Question:

 

Why are you still posting here, DC? Every one of your "reviews" is picked apart here, and it seems you spend more time trying to defend yourself than actually writing. That much unrest must mean something ain't right... Right?

 

As for the worst car rag out there, that's easy for me. C&D. Hands down. Why Ford hasn't yanked their ads from the pad of toilet paper is beyond me.

 

For the record, DC, I don't hate your review, but as has been repeatedly stated, I think your criterias are skewed. You point out the advantages to only the vans, but none of the obvious benefits of the crossovers. Cubic footage isn't the only reason to buy a family hauler. With you being in MD, you have no idea how valuable AWD is to the soccer moms of the upper states.

 

As for pricing, look at content, fit and finish and build quality. If you think the Caravan has a nicer interior, I'll eat my keyboard.

 

I don't read your reviews much, because I don't like you using these forums as a means to plug another site. A site that typically rates the Fords last... This is a Ford forum. For the most part, why would we care about your "review" of the new Subaru (That's already been on the lots and reviewed by everyone else)?

 

Why here?

[chiefstang]

:rolleyes:

 

Yeah. People who are too dumb to sort out fact from hype are going to read your article and the scales will fall from their eyes.

 

And maybe one of them will send you a letter telling you how your article saved them from making a terrible mistake, and then they'll win the lottery and they'll give you a million bucks and you can buy a rocket ship and fly around the moon!

 

 

Sorry... But that's MY nomination for POTW.

[97 F350]

As for pricing, look at content, fit and finish and build quality. If you think the Caravan has a nicer interior, I'll eat my keyboard.

 

 

And I'll pour the salsa on it for you to help it go down easier.

 

When we looked at replacements for our 01 Windstar last year, the interior on it was STILL nicer than the the new T&C - much less the down-market Caravan. Miles of cheap, flimsy-looking plastic in odd colors.

[chiefstang]

And I'll pour the salsa on it for you to help it go down easier.

 

When we looked at replacements for our 01 Windstar last year, the interior on it was STILL nicer than the the new T&C - much less the down-market Caravan. Miles of cheap, flimsy-looking plastic in odd colors.

 

 

I love salsa! :happy feet:

[Deanh]

I love salsa! :happy feet:

I prefer the Twist....

[DC Car Examiner]

Question:

 

Why are you still posting here, DC? Every one of your "reviews" is picked apart here, and it seems you spend more time trying to defend yourself than actually writing. That much unrest must mean something ain't right... Right?

 

As for the worst car rag out there, that's easy for me. C&D. Hands down. Why Ford hasn't yanked their ads from the pad of toilet paper is beyond me.

 

For the record, DC, I don't hate your review, but as has been repeatedly stated, I think your criterias are skewed. You point out the advantages to only the vans, but none of the obvious benefits of the crossovers. Cubic footage isn't the only reason to buy a family hauler. With you being in MD, you have no idea how valuable AWD is to the soccer moms of the upper states.

 

As for pricing, look at content, fit and finish and build quality. If you think the Caravan has a nicer interior, I'll eat my keyboard.

 

I don't read your reviews much, because I don't like you using these forums as a means to plug another site. A site that typically rates the Fords last... This is a Ford forum. For the most part, why would we care about your "review" of the new Subaru (That's already been on the lots and reviewed by everyone else)?

 

Why here?

 

I post on multiple forums, and I post what I write wherever I post. I'm sorry that Ford fans aren't interested in reviews of non-Fords in a section called "Ford's Competition" and don't like to see anyone suggest that there's room for improvement.

 

To say that I "typically rate Fords last" shows you haven't read what I've written anyway, so forgive me if your criticism of what you didn't read doesn't send me running.

[Deanh]

I post on multiple forums, and I post what I write wherever I post. I'm sorry that Ford fans aren't interested in reviews of non-Fords in a section called "Ford's Competition" and don't like to see anyone suggest that there's room for improvement.

 

To say that I "typically rate Fords last" shows you haven't read what I've written anyway, so forgive me if your criticism of what you didn't read doesn't send me running.

and therein lies my issue...CUV"S DO NOT COMPARE WITH MINIVANS..... thats the same as comparing mini-vans with clubwagons....

[chiefstang]

I post on multiple forums, and I post what I write wherever I post. I'm sorry that Ford fans aren't interested in reviews of non-Fords in a section called "Ford's Competition" and don't like to see anyone suggest that there's room for improvement.

 

To say that I "typically rate Fords last" shows you haven't read what I've written anyway, so forgive me if your criticism of what you didn't read doesn't send me running.

 

Nice cherry pick.

 

What about your criteria being off? It's ok to accept critisism as an author, and hopefully better your writing as a result. The fact that you're being universally jabbed for the same thing should tell you that maybe this review was a farse. Not all, but without question, you dropped the jounalistic "ball" here.

 

For the record, the "Ford's Competition" section is strictly for bashing Ford's competition.

[chiefstang]

and therein lies my issue...CUV"S DO NOT COMPARE WITH MINIVANS..... thats the same as comparing mini-vans with clubwagons....

 

 

Were you looking at trading your Mini for a Transit Connect, Dean?

 

More room...

[DC Car Examiner]

and therein lies my issue...CUV"S DO NOT COMPARE WITH MINIVANS..... thats the same as comparing mini-vans with clubwagons....

 

A front-wheel-drive crossover with the same exterior dimensions as a minivan and that has the same primary mission of a minivan of carrying a family is directly comparable to a minivan. A full-size van is not the same size as the six vehicles in this comparison, it does not have similar driving dynamics, it was not designed as a family car, it does not get the same gas mileage, it does not have modern safety technology, it does not ride or handle like a car.

 

Is that distinction so stupefying that I've needed to post it multiple times, or do people just think they've independently reached this brilliance without reading the thread?

[DC Car Examiner]

Nice cherry pick.

 

What about your criteria being off? It's ok to accept critisism as an author, and hopefully better your writing as a result. The fact that you're being universally jabbed for the same thing should tell you that maybe this review was a farse. Not all, but without question, you dropped the jounalistic "ball" here.

 

For the record, the "Ford's Competition" section is strictly for bashing Ford's competition.

 

No, I think it tells me a] that people don't have a grasp on the popular view of the crossover and b] that they don't like that the Ford didn't win.

Edited January 8, 2010 by DC Car Examiner

[RichardJensen]

No, I think it tells me a] that people don't have a grasp on the popular view of the crossover and b] that they don't like that the Ford didn't win.

Hey Don Quixote.

 

Here's a thought:

 

Why not review USED cars, since buying a used car with a certified warranty & service contract is far more practical than buying a NEW car?

[Deanh]

A front-wheel-drive crossover with the same exterior dimensions as a minivan and that has the same primary mission of a minivan of carrying a family is directly comparable to a minivan. A full-size van is not the same size as the six vehicles in this comparison, it does not have similar driving dynamics, it was not designed as a family car, it does not get the same gas mileage, it does not have modern safety technology, it does not ride or handle like a car.

 

Is that distinction so stupefying that I've needed to post it multiple times, or do people just think they've independently reached this brilliance without reading the thread?

is it so hard for YOU, to realize they are aimed at two entirely different niches of the market? and thus from different design spectrums????? hell, youre beleiving your own hype...did it actually take driving for YOU to note the differences, and note that u hey, lets compare a 4.0 Ranger with a V8 F-150....hey, that parallels your comparo....cept one could be veiwed as more "practical' of course....and its driving dynamics would be one hell of a lot more similar than a mini van and say the flex....