Edmunds MiniE Long-Term Wrap-up

[nelsonlu]

Edmunds InsideLine Wrapup on MiniE

 

The most surprising claim in the review is that they claim that the MiniE cost less than $30 in electricity over a course of some 7,600 miles. (By comparison, I spend about $45 per 600 miles on my Fusion Hybrid -- the third most fuel efficient vehicle available in North America at the moment.) This, if accurate, shows how it is that all the screams about how expensive EVs are are going to be muffled when it turns out that the owners will be spending next to nothing in fueling costs. If the EVs can survive the worries about their range and reliability, they'll catch on like wildfire.

Edited July 17, 2010 by nelsonlu

[RichardJensen]

I find that nearly impossible to duplicate.

 

Math error. See correction below.

Edited July 17, 2010 by RichardJensen

[nelsonlu]

I find that nearly impossible to duplicate.

 

= 37.6 km/kwh

 

= 10.4m per watt (37,600 meters / 3600 seconds)

 

 

Unless I am missing something, this part of your calculation is wrong. A kilometer is 1000 meters. A kilowatt is 1000 watts. Therefore, if you are getting 37.6 km per kwh, then it's also 37.6 meters per watt.

 

This doesn't change your general point, but the general point should be that residential rates are not the same as commercial rates (a valid point). Still, there is no way that the equivalency would come close to even the gas costs that I am paying for my Fusion Hybrid -- and I am paying a much reduced gas cost than the vast majority of car owners.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Electric cars will end up costing a lot more run in the future as supply & demand can't be met, quite a few of our power stations are going to be closed down decommissioned in the next 5 years in the UK. Our Labour government knew about the problem and failed to invest in new power station experts say we will be facing regular blackouts in the UK just as the electric car arrives on the scene.

 

Blackout Britain will want to burn electric cars.

LINK

[FordBuyer]

I find that nearly impossible to duplicate.

 

Watts are watts. It's not like there's some magical means of multiplying them.

 

$.10 / kwh (typical residential rate at least around here).

 

$30 = 300 kwh

 

7,000 miles = 23.3 miles/kwh

 

= 37.6 km/kwh

 

= 10.4m per watt (37,600 meters / 3600 seconds)

 

1 watt = 1 joule per second.

 

You cannot move a Mini 10.4 meters with 1 joule of energy--assuming absolutely NO parasitic losses. To do so, you would need the average resistance of the Mini to be no more than 104 grams.

 

104 grams, as in 2/3rds of a cup of sugar.

 

While it may have cost only $30 for these guys, you're going to spend more than $30.

 

My community has lost its electric power twice so far this summer with such hot weather and thunderstorms developing practically every other afternoon around here. Each time we lost power for over 24 hours and some communities for days. I expect to lose power again this summer as it's a hot one. When the wind shears get above 50mpg......poof, no power and we are in the 19th Century for a day or two. I wonder if lost electric power is factored into driving an all electric vehicle that is dependent upon a grid system that is suspect.

[FordBuyer]

Electric cars will end up costing a lot more run in the future as supply & demand can't be met, quite a few of our power stations are going to be closed down decommissioned in the next 5 years in the UK. Our Labour government knew about the problem and failed to invest in new power station experts say we will be facing regular blackouts in the UK just as the electric car arrives on the scene.

 

Blackout Britain will want to burn electric cars.

LINK

 

 

Same here in Michigan. No new powerplants being built, and when they try to build a coal powered plant, the governor strikes down the permit process. It's hard enough keeping the power flowing for A/C let alone millions of EV vehicles.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

My community has lost its electric power twice so far this summer with such hot weather and thunderstorms developing practically every other afternoon around here. Each time we lost power for over 24 hours and some communities for days. I expect to lose power again this summer as it's a hot one. When the wind shears get above 50mpg......poof, no power and we are in the 19th Century for a day or two. I wonder if lost electric power is factored into driving an all electric vehicle that is dependent upon a grid system that is suspect.

 

We had a couple of power cuts in my area as well this year one was a few hours the other was for 8 hours, and the problems will become worse as 1/3 of our power stations get decommissioned without replacements over the next several years as our population grows electric cars will be about as welcome as the bubonic plague.

 

 

 

[RichardJensen]

37.6 meters per watt.

No. A watt is a time-bound unit (kg*m²/s²).

 

A kilowatt hour is, effectively, 3600 kilowatts.

 

Now when you look at the units, they break down thus: m / (kg*m²/s³), or m*s³/kg*m²). Cancel out the meters and you have s³/kg*m.

 

The number that you arrive at (37,600/3,600,000) is .0104.

 

So your units and your number is .0104s³/kg*m.

 

This is, when inverted kilogram*meters per second squared per second, or Newtons per second. We need to multiply this value by 1m in order to convert it back into watts.

 

Our form is thus .0104s³/kg*m

 

Invert and multiply by 1m to get 96.14 watts.

 

So it took 96.14 watts, on average, to power the MiniE.

 

96.14 watts is .129 horsepower. It is about a quarter of what your computer is drawing from its power supply right now.... It is about 25 times the amount of power required for your hard drive..

 

I'll leave it to you to judge whether that's plausible.

Edited July 17, 2010 by RichardJensen

[nelsonlu]

My community has lost its electric power twice so far this summer with such hot weather and thunderstorms developing practically every other afternoon around here. Each time we lost power for over 24 hours and some communities for days. I expect to lose power again this summer as it's a hot one. When the wind shears get above 50mpg......poof, no power and we are in the 19th Century for a day or two. I wonder if lost electric power is factored into driving an all electric vehicle that is dependent upon a grid system that is suspect.

 

No electricity in the community also means no gas, since you can't pump gas without electricity.

 

But that is, for sure, a major drawback for EVs. And, in any case, it's not for everyone. But for someone who drives 10-20 miles a day, losing one day of electricity will still leave them with more than sufficient reserves for four more days at least.

[FordBuyer]

We had a couple of power cuts in my area as well this year one was a few hours the other was for 8 hours, and the problems will become worse as 1/3 of our power stations get decommissioned without replacements over the next several years as our population grows electric cars will be about as welcome as the bubonic plague.

 

It's amazing how we are plunged into the 19th Century when our power goes out. One could even argue that it's worse. No lights, no cooking if you have an electric range as many do. I guess you have grilling if you have full propane tank on your BBQ. No TV, computer, and so on. Many have discontinued their land lines, so no cell phone once battery dies. And good luck finding a pay phone. No traffic lights working so good luck on driving. And it gets really dark outside when all the power is out as you see how much street lights help you see. And gas stations in black out can't dispense fuel without electrics. Many don't even have working flashlights or candles for blackouts. Only hope is power generator to keep fridge going. And of course no A/C or heat in winter as power goes out on hottest and coldest days. Total feeling of helplessness especially at night. We have become so totally dependent upon electricity.

[Edstock]

Check out http://www.nanosolar.com/

 

Just add a bunch of deep-cycle marine batteries.

[theoldwizard]

A kilowatt hour is, effectively, 3600 kilowatts.

I suggest you use Wikipedia more often !

 

Energy in watt hours is the multiplication of power in watts and time in hours

 

or

 

An (electrical device) rated at 1000 watts (1 kilowatt), operating for one hour uses one kilowatt hour of energy.

[lfeg]

Two comments,

 

Most likely being a pool car at the editorial offices, all recharging was probably not being recorded, and some was probably at unmetered sites (someone else covering the bill).

Also, no fuel taxes on electricity.

 

And in my records, the fuel cost per mile of a gasoline powered car getting in the upper 20s MPG with $2.80 a gallon gas is 2.5 to 3 times costlier to operate than a BEV that uses a DC motor and a ferroresonant charger with electricity at a total cost of close to 14 cents per kWhr.

Edited July 19, 2010 by lfeg