Rysani Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 (edited) I am hoping someone can provide direction...We have a 2010 3.5L EcoBoost MKT that is terrible in snow. This is our first winter and there has been lots of snow so far and its only Dec, I have 20" snows on but it seems like the AWD is not working. The front tires are spinning constantly (traction control engaging) our driveway is about a 35 degree slope and we actually can't get up without taking a run at it....At street corners we get better traction disengaging the traction control.....I have an appointment early next week to check it, but we are already running into questions from the dealership that this is normal..We have another AWD (GM) vehicle and it is much easier to control than this, so this can't be normal. I have searched other sites and see no reported issues, except maybe the Flex transmission problems ? But we are not experiencing the issues they describe. One possiblity is that it is a FWD MKT but again this would seem very unusual, as AWD is standard on 3.5L? I have read that Flex owners say their vehicles are very good in snow....opinions please ? Edited December 18, 2010 by Rysani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 I am hoping someone can provide direction...We have a 2010 3.5L EcoBoost MKT that is terrible in snow. This is our first winter and there has been lots of snow so far and its only Dec, I have 20" snows on but it seems like the AWD is not working. The front tires are spinning constantly (traction control engaging) our driveway is about a 35 degree slope and we actually can't get up without taking a run at it....At street corners we get better traction disengaging the traction control.....I have an appointment early next week to check it, but we are already running into questions from the dealership that this is normal..We have another AWD (GM) vehicle and it is much easier to control than this, so this can't be normal. I have searched other sites and see no reported issues, except maybe the Flex transmission problems ? But we are not experiencing the issues they describe. One possiblity is that it is a FWD MKT but again this would seem very unusual, as AWD is standard on 3.5L? I have read that Flex owners say their vehicles are very good in snow....opinions please ? If it's really an Ecoboost then yes it's AWD. Just look underneath for a drive shaft running front to rear if you want to be sure. This is simple - the dealer can hook up their diagnostic tool and see the torque distribution F/R and also the wheel speed sensors. If the rears aren't activating it should be obvious. The other alternative is to borrow another AWD MkT and try it out one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richy Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 I have an 11 MKX with 20" chrome wheels. I suspect your problem is your tires. The importance of proper winter tires is so underrated, it's not funny. Your tires make much more of a difference than your drive system ever will. You could have 10 wheel drive but couple that with All Season Tires and you will sit and spin. Compare that to a RWD car with snow tires that will run circles around you. I have Pirelli Scorpion M&S tires on mine. What have you got? Being in Windsor, we don't get near the snow you do 3 hours up the road. I would strongly, strongly suggest you invest in a 2nd set of wheels and install proper winter tires on them. The rubber compound is much softer and will give you great traction. That can make the difference between stopping in time or hitting something. What qualifies me to yack on about the importance of tires? I was a Collision Reconstructionist (investigate Traffic fatalities) for 5 years. The compound on All Seasons turn so hard under about 5 degrees C that they slide like a hockey puck..not good. You put winter tires on your MKT and you will get through damned near anything (other than maybe that mess they had on the 402). It is better to invest in a 2nd set of wheels than to change tires back and forth too. If you do this, please let me know what difference it makes for you. I want you and your family to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysani Posted December 18, 2010 Author Share Posted December 18, 2010 I have an 11 MKX with 20" chrome wheels. I suspect your problem is your tires. The importance of proper winter tires is so underrated, it's not funny. Your tires make much more of a difference than your drive system ever will. You could have 10 wheel drive but couple that with All Season Tires and you will sit and spin. Compare that to a RWD car with snow tires that will run circles around you. I have Pirelli Scorpion M&S tires on mine. What have you got? Being in Windsor, we don't get near the snow you do 3 hours up the road. I would strongly, strongly suggest you invest in a 2nd set of wheels and install proper winter tires on them. The rubber compound is much softer and will give you great traction. That can make the difference between stopping in time or hitting something. What qualifies me to yack on about the importance of tires? I was a Collision Reconstructionist (investigate Traffic fatalities) for 5 years. The compound on All Seasons turn so hard under about 5 degrees C that they slide like a hockey puck..not good. You put winter tires on your MKT and you will get through damned near anything (other than maybe that mess they had on the 402). It is better to invest in a 2nd set of wheels than to change tires back and forth too. If you do this, please let me know what difference it makes for you. I want you and your family to be safe. [/quote Thanks for the responses, this is just confirming we have a problem. I have 4 snows that were put on in Nov, before the snow. (Pirelli - Scorpion Ice and snow from Tirerack) I have been a bit nervous that either we had bought a lemon or the most useless winter vehicle ever.....thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowalcs Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 We just got into our MKT after getting rid of our Volvo XC90 V8 AWD. Wish we had kept the Volvo. I don't think you have any issues with your AWD system. I was thinking the same thing with ours, but I just think that this vehicle acts more like a FWD vehicle than an AWD vehicle, due to the 70/30, front to rear power distribution. The other day I floored it on a 20mph roll and lit up the front tires on dry pavement. Not just a chirp, they lit up! I thought to myself, "is this thing really AWD?" Our Volvo never would have done that. It would have hooked up and been gone. Overall, I am just not impressed with this vehicle. V8 power with V6 fuel mileage? Yeah right. Our V8 Volvo would average 21mpg, mixed city/hwy driving and this thing is averaging 19 or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 due to the 70/30, front to rear power distribution. If it's anything like the other AWD systems Ford has been using, it can transfer up to 90% of power to the rear wheels when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysani Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 If it's anything like the other AWD systems Ford has been using, it can transfer up to 90% of power to the rear wheels when needed. We had it into the shop and was told there was nothing wrong with AWD...on the hoist the back wheels turned....He went on to tell me (not very clearly) that Fords AWD is not really 4WD but more like FWD, and the AWD will kick in when needed. Ok, I said then who decides when it is needed ? I am at a corner, pulling into traffic, the front wheels are spinning and the back ones are not kicking in and you don't see this as a problem...you are trying to tell me there is nothing wrong ? The best response I got was they will call Fords Hot line (whatever that is?) and see if there are others with this problem....I am pretty frustrated and trying to decide my options....question of the day ?? When is FWD the same as AWD, when you buy a $60k Lincoln.....Just to note this is my wife's vehicle, mine is a 2010 GM, with AWD, that actually works..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 We had it into the shop and was told there was nothing wrong with AWD...on the hoist the back wheels turned....He went on to tell me (not very clearly) that Fords AWD is not really 4WD but more like FWD, and the AWD will kick in when needed. Ok, I said then who decides when it is needed ? I am at a corner, pulling into traffic, the front wheels are spinning and the back ones are not kicking in and you don't see this as a problem...you are trying to tell me there is nothing wrong ? The best response I got was they will call Fords Hot line (whatever that is?) and see if there are others with this problem....I am pretty frustrated and trying to decide my options....question of the day ?? When is FWD the same as AWD, when you buy a $60k Lincoln.....Just to note this is my wife's vehicle, mine is a 2010 GM, with AWD, that actually works..... Again, as far as I know, there is always at least 10% of power going to the rear wheels...so it's never "FWD". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowalcs Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 (edited) I agree with Rysani. I have a Dodge Magnum AWD and that thing kicks a$$ in the snow and I've never been able to light up the tires on dry pavement, like I can with our MKT. That car is a totally different animal though, as it is rear wheel biased. But still, I'm not satisfied with the MKT's AWD system. It's my wife's vehicle and she hasn't complained about it yet, but I do know that our Volvo and my Magnum perform way better in slippery conditions. I'll be driving it from Michigan to Virginia tomorrow and I'm hoping for dry roads! Edited December 22, 2010 by kowalcs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowalcs Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) Ok. After talking to some of the development engineers at Ford, they seem to think that my AWD system is inoperable. I have an appointment at the dealership tomorrow. Rysani, I would suggest taking your car back in and have them perform the following TSB. The PTU hardware guys have had various issues with welds and other internals and there is a TSB in the system. Have your dealer reference TSB 10-22-4 and they can run thru the procedure to verify that you do indeed have a broken PTU. The words should include "complaints of non-functioning AWD", unless they have another TSB out there. But the procedure would be the same. AWD VEHICLES - SHUDDER/CHATTER/VIBRATION ON TURNS OR THUMP/CLUNK NOISE ON LIGHT ACCELERATION - BUILT 10/1/2009 TO 12/31/2009 FORD: 2010 Fusion, Taurus, Edge, Flex LINCOLN: 2010 MKS, MKZ, MKT, MKX MERCURY: 2010 Milan ISSUE: Some 2010 Taurus, Edge, Flex, Fusion, Milan, MKS, MKT, MKX and MKZ vehicles built 10/1/2009 to 12/31/2009 and equipped with all wheel drive (AWD) may exhibit a shudder/chatter/vibration driveline sensation during a tight turn, or a thump/clunk noise on light acceleration. These symptoms may also occur under 40 MPH (64 Km/h), on tip-in, driving uphill, or towing under heavy acceleration. ACTION: Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition. SERVICE PROCEDURE With the vehicle on a hoist, check the power transfer unit (PTU) by using one or both of the following procedures: Transmission in Park - driveshaft can be rotated by hand or using a strap wrench. Park brake set, engine running at idle, transmission in drive, foot off brake - front wheels turn and driveshaft does not. If one or both of these conditions are present, replace the PTU. Refer to Workshop Manual, Section 308-07. PART NUMBER PART NAME AT4Z-7251-A PTU (Edge/MKS/MKX/Taurus) AA8Z-7251-B PTU (Flex/MKT) 7E5Z-7251-F PTU (Fusion/Milan/MKZ w/ AWF21 (Aisin) Transmission) 9E5Z-7251-AG PTU (Fusion/Milan/MKZ w/ 6F35 Transmission) Good luck! Edited January 4, 2011 by kowalcs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysani Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 We actually are now waiting for the PTU to arrive for installation and appreciate the backup information on this.....I am really hoping this works, we are having a bad winter this year and I am getting tired/ frustrated with our dealership on these issues. Next are the brakes (which have been replaced once already)..... Thanks again and I will advise when the part is installed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowalcs Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 We actually are now waiting for the PTU to arrive for installation and appreciate the backup information on this.....I am really hoping this works, we are having a bad winter this year and I am getting tired/ frustrated with our dealership on these issues. Next are the brakes (which have been replaced once already)..... Thanks again and I will advise when the part is installed.... I thought they said nothing was wrong with it and the back wheels turned while on the hoist? What made you take it back to the dealership? I'm sure a new PTU will solve both of our problems. Good luck and I'll post our results, as well. We had our front brakes replaced under TSB 10-17-3 once already at 16K miles. They were squealing like crazy. They replaced both front rotors, pads and hardware kit, which included the caliper mounting brackets, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) One of the reason I don't like extremely large (18" and over) rims on passenger vehicles is the limited choice of available tires. Those are the only winter tires available in either 19" or 20" size. Kind of stuck with what you got. Edited January 7, 2011 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysani Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 The dealership did say nothing was wrong, but also said they would contact the Ford Hot line to see if there were any issues with the AWD. They called back just before xmas and said Ford recommended they replace the PTU, which is on order. On the brakes, we had all of same items replaced at 7500 miles, due to a grinding/ clunking noise in the fronts. The repair was good for about 1000 miles and now the front passenger are grinding again. We are hoping to get it in later this week as well, hopefully everything works out..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowalcs Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Got our new PTU installed on Friday and the car now handles how it's supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysani Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Finallly got the PTU replaced on ours today and what a difference...it is performing the way it should.....It is a shame the dealership has been so difficult to acknowledge there was a problem....Now for the front brakes....We had the TSB done last fall, but the grinding noise has returned (we are now at 8000 miles), and the dealership seems reluctant again to acknowledge a problem......Thanks for everyones input on the AWD.....it helped my case.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I feel for you.....only thing worse then having problems with a new vehicle and have them tear it apart, ( which to me just takes the fun right out of having a new car ), is getting the service department to acknowledge a problem. I've had many battles with various ford service managers over the years. Key is, to be determent and to NOT go away. Ford really needs to work on that!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I've had many battles with various ford service managers over the years. Key is, to be determent and to NOT go away. Ford really needs to work on that!!! Ford doesn't employ Service Managers. Being an employee you should know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Ford doesn't employ Service Managers. Being an employee you should know that. When there is an issue , and MR. service manager does not see a concern as a problem ( to keep warranty costs down ,which benefits the dealer also), and a Ford Rep. ends up being the one that looks at the car and orders this or that to be fixed or done,....That to me is some control. A little late in the game, but never the less...... To alienate people with a legitimate car problems , by not acknowledging the concern in the name of (reduced warranty costs) Ford needs to apply pressure to dealers to treat customers right. It is in everybody's best interest. therefore......Ford needs to work on that!!!! Edited June 6, 2011 by Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Ford needs to apply pressure to dealers to treat customers right. It is in everybody's best interest. therefore......Ford needs to work on that!!!! I agree. But exactly how do you propose Ford does that without breaking state franchise laws? I once asked the Lincoln marketing VP why they didn't just require every dealer to stock at least one manual trans Lincoln LS for test drives and he said "because I don't want to end up in jail!". Do not underestimate the power of the franchise laws and how powerless Ford is to police their dealership franchises. It has to be every bit as frustrating for Ford as it is for the customers but there is only so much they can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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