228electrician Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I dont know what salaried yer talking about but the engineers I know personally at Dearboen R&D , have not had their retirement taken away. Now I do know Visteon engineers working side by side with them and yes they have been raked over the coals. the ones that went from ford to visteon, and then back to ford, got screwed big time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbabbitt Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 if its so hard, quit and find an easier job, i have many unemployed neighbors willing to do your job for half the pay so they can feed their families. you my sir can just go away ty vm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Sparky Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 if its so hard, quit and find an easier job, i have many unemployed neighbors willing to do your job for half the pay so they can feed their families. Plenty of Romex Jockeys at the Hall willing to be back to work doing crosswords waiting for the next breakdown at 2/3s your pay. Be careful who you look down your nose at, Brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Plenty of Romex Jockeys at the Hall willing to be back to work doing crosswords waiting for the next breakdown at 2/3s your pay. Be careful who you look down your nose at, Brother. Agreed! I call Bullsh-t with 228electrician's level of arrogance I can't see any of his neighbors being wiling to work for any less then an autoworker. I bet he lives in either a rural area, or in a housing development with homes starting in the 250K + range. Not only would they not be whiling, but could not afford the paycut, and still be able to support their households. 228electrician you have no idea who you are talking to. I took an early retirement in 09', and am currently working as a QMED on a great lakes steam vessel. In 4 years I will be a licensed steam engineer, and even when I am, how does that effect the value of any other workers level of compensation? Just cause I apprenticed, and schooled to get a better position doesn't mean that others who haven't are worth less. Fact is you and I both made decisions to further our credentials so we could gain security, pay, and we would not have to endure the physical stresses or brutal punishment that the work they perform does to your body. Just cause it is less desirable work doesn't mean it is less valued. They build the products that pay the bills. They are value added employees, and since you take no part in assembling the vehicles you are a Non-value added employee, and your wages are a draw on the revenue produced from the work that they perform. You can say what you like about line workers, but you do less, and your position does nothing to generate any income for Ford Motor Company. I know plenty of laid off transit union electricians that would gladly do your job for less money just to work steady! So what's your f-cking point? Your sense of self entitlement is exactly what is wrong with this country. "I went to school so I deserve more, you didn't so you deserve nothing"! Get real man, they can and are trying to out source your job cause they can get it done cheaper, and more efficiently by contractors! I know, you want to wire fans up, and call a millwright to come and make a 2 min. adjustment just cause it's "not my job"! -End rant Edited February 15, 2011 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
228electrician Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Before anymore rants start, my reply reflects my opionion about the discussion of the company OWES us raises, with every hourly employee we have is at or above the pays scale for their "talents" why would the company give us any raises? This isn't me vs you thing, and i did 8 years on the floor in machining before my 10 years on trades, and with the ergo standard we have today, i can't believe anyone can complain their job is hard, if it is, call your ergo rep for your plant. I would much rather have the fight at this next contract focused on the new hires so we can stop the 2 tier stuff before it gets out of hand. i would gladly give up raises for the next 4 years so that new hires have a chance to become full pay like the rest of us, like a 10 year progressive ladder to full rate like the 3 year one most of you had to go thru, that would strengthen our union for the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
228electrician Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 228electrician you have no idea who you are talking to. I took an early retirement in 09', and am currently working as a QMED on a great lakes steam vessel. In 4 years I will be a licensed steam engineer, and even when I am, how does that effect the value of any other workers level of compensation? just cause I apprenticed, and schooled to get a better position doesn't mean that others who haven't are worth less. Fact is you and I both made decisions to further our credentials so we could gain security, pay, and we would not have to endure the physical stresses or brutal punishment that the work they perform does to your body. Just cause it is less desirable work doesn't mean it is less valued. so your point is what? go to school to make more money but someone who didn't should make just as much? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I heard a rumor I heard the UAW will be successful once again to get product in all of our plants and a no layoff memorandum. We will all be fully employed, placed in a building if you don’t have a home base, all ACH will be forced to an in zone Ford location with no layoffs, guaranteed a 40 pay check for the length of the agreement. NO LAYOFFS EVERYONE WORKS………….. The twist is our wages will be the same for the next 4 years. Anyone else hear this rumor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 so your point is what? go to school to make more money but someone who didn't should make just as much? I agree with your first post mostly, the 3 year progression needs to be reinstated, or extended no more then 5 years, and I'm also not suggesting that the line workers make what trades or the power PPE operators do. However you suggesting that they should be satisfied with the status qua by comparing line workers to "ditch diggers" is wrong. There need to be attempts to make gains, however shoring up current language should be the focus before suggesting raises. Reinstatement of joint programs, protecting trades, new hires, and attempting to reinstated COLA to it's previous state to try to shelter your standard of living from inflation should be primary on everyone's mind. Not getting raises, or annual bonuses in lieu of fixing the current agreements. Maybe improving the JSP language also, there is too much to be addressed before talking % increases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanduskyman Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) The company and UAW has taken us for a ride far too long, we were all 42" at one time to ride this ride and now we can't ride it anymore. I'll be asking for a refund from the park administrator, and I hope you all join me and line up. If you vote yes on this next contract first time out of the gate then your a stupid stupid person, and we all know what stupid does.. BTW someone made the comment above about putting our contract online for the whole world to see, which for the media is a bad idea, but for us, it would give us more power and knowledge and both the UAW and company doesn't like it when someone has knowledge because with knowledge comes power. Putting the contact online would hurt the company and cause the UAW to adhear to it when in most cases they don't. As for pay raises, I agree with them, we have not seen any substantial raise since 2007.. and if the company throws 50,000 in your face to take a 5.00 pay cut over 3-4 years and continue on the path that we are on your foolish to take it. So you wanna pay off your house to sacrifice the workers? what a rat bastard you are. Now someone also mentioned that they managed their money poorly. (IMO) if you kept your cock in your pants and didn't have an ex wife and kid to support along with all your toys you bought, then don't visit that on the members. Some people that work for ford that are single or divorced stopped playing the games long ago and yes were able to save a nice nest egg. But most of these young fucks working on the line, are making babies with 2-3 women, and then they cry cause they can't afford a Ford pay check. Keep your dick in your pants and make your ladies pay for their own kids and well beings. Ford is not in the business to support the healthcare of 3 ex wives/kids yaada yaada yaada. Now with regards to retirees or legacy costs, ford made that promise to those people so that part of the bargain should be kept by the company and UAW. As for the UAW taking over our healthcare, there is no reason why our co-pays and prescriptions should be as high as they are. We shouldn't be paying anything more then 5 or 10 bucks for a co-pay and if the UAW doesn't fix this fast yes people will be striking. The UAW has billions of dollars, there is no reason to keep these costs high like they are. As for salary getting bonuses, I agree the people at the top should be taking pay cuts before we should. They (simply put) make more then we do. I would recommend to all that you all stand up for what is right this year and strike if you have too. Remember the UAW has put asside money for us to strike, I think it's $200 a week, sorry I can live on $200 a week as a single person no problem. I'll be glad to walk the picket line for a few that are married with kids with bills up their ass, I have no problem with solidarity. I also want to point out that we have one major problem with the DTP facility, and that is the UAW in there is allowing team leaders to rat out workers on the line, those team leaders, we know who you are and we are watching you. Next time around when we take a vote for you to remain on the line doing nothing all night, make sure you think back to the time you ratted someone out to get them time off. Our UAW knows the team leader situation at DTP is a problem but will not address it. This concept must go. The company loves it and is exploiting it to their benefits. Ask the UAW in there what was said in the Team Leader meeting at the end of Jan. You won't like it. BTW the person that posted the medical pass on here a few weeks ago I heard filed a complaint with the EEOC and is suing the company for discrimination. I personally saw the medical pass and hope that they win their case cause it was clearly a case of harassment and the company should pay them big time for it. People should be able to go to work without being harassed by the workplace or by people on the line trying to make themselves look good for their own individual ends. This is not solidarity lets buck up and start protecting each other in the workplace. Remember if you saw or heard something, always be in favor of the employee and not the supervisor, the more memberships we loose the worst we stand come contract time. And if you don't like someone personally, tell them, don't get them time off just to make yourself better, remember paybacks are a bitch to those workers that do this. Vote no or remember (you will go), we are the union the mighty mighty union. Edited February 17, 2011 by sanduskyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I don't even know where to start man, I guess the thing you cited that stuck out the most was blaming the union for your Co-pays. You also want a raise. The UAW doesn't control medical care coverage for active workers, they only administrate the retirees medical care. Edited February 17, 2011 by Furious1Auto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanduskyman Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I don't even know where to start man, I guess the thing you cited that stuck out the most was blaming the union for your Co-pays. You also want a raise. The UAW doesn't control medical care coverage for active workers, they only administrate the retirees medical care. The co-pays are still high and so is special treatments. Most of my friends are all retired Ford workers, my father is also. They can't afford paying the high doctor bills that they have to pay. My father is on his 2nd hip surgery coming soon, he got cancer of the prostate, they had to freeze his balls off to save his life. You think these type of treatments are cheap? Look at the people that have to suffer from Mesothelioma from working in these old plants that are retired. Medications don't come cheap yes the VEBA is for retired workers (and we will be there one day) but the UAW should step up and get the costs lowered for all workers as well. Back in 1995 co-pays were 2-5 bucks of course this is when Clinton was in office. Now you got every doctor trying to bill you for something stupid like 25 bucks for getting a doctor's note. 50.00 co-pays etc etc... it's BS! Edited February 17, 2011 by sanduskyman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The co-pays are still high and so is special treatments. Most of my friends are all retired Ford workers, my father is also. They can't afford paying the high doctor bills that they have to pay. My father is on his 2nd hip surgery coming soon, he got cancer of the prostate, they had to freeze his balls off to save his life. You think these type of treatments are cheap? Look at the people that have to suffer from Mesothelioma from working in these old plants that are retired. Medications don't come cheap yes the VEBA is for retired workers (and we will be there one day) but the UAW should step up and get the costs lowered for all workers as well. Back in 1995 co-pays were 2-5 bucks of course this is when Clinton was in office. Now you got every doctor trying to bill you for something stupid like 25 bucks for getting a doctor's note. 50.00 co-pays etc etc... it's BS! Look Chucky, Why dont you just take yourself and your other 6 poster accounts and do something constructive like look at loopholes to get out of doing work. Something you are good at........... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) The co-pays are still high and so is special treatments. Most of my friends are all retired Ford workers, my father is also. They can't afford paying the high doctor bills that they have to pay. My father is on his 2nd hip surgery coming soon, he got cancer of the prostate, they had to freeze his balls off to save his life. You think these type of treatments are cheap? Look at the people that have to suffer from Mesothelioma from working in these old plants that are retired. Medications don't come cheap yes the VEBA is for retired workers (and we will be there one day) but the UAW should step up and get the costs lowered for all workers as well. Back in 1995 co-pays were 2-5 bucks of course this is when Clinton was in office. Now you got every doctor trying to bill you for something stupid like 25 bucks for getting a doctor's note. 50.00 co-pays etc etc... it's BS! There is no doubt the retirees got hosed, and that the VEBA is not what it was presented to be initially. I knew their coverage levels would change once the UAW took over the liability. I sat through the meeting even though I had already left Ford, and listened to the retirees talk about the negative effects of their new coverage during the Q & A portion of the meeting. The fund was suppose to be sufficient to protect retirees for the next 85 years, but coverage levels were reduced from day one of the UAW taking it over. However that still has nothing to do with the active workers coverage. The active workers coverage is another aspect of the contract that can be improved for the members before wages are even considered. There is allot to fix, and just looking at wages would be a mistake. Not saying there should not be wage increases, but they should be last on the list of priorities. Just reinstating COLA to it's original language would protect you all from inflation, and essentially give you raises throughout the year. Otherwise you will be back peddling. Edited February 17, 2011 by Furious1Auto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvsked Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 There is no doubt the retirees got hosed, and that the VEBA is not what it was presented to be initially. I knew their coverage levels would change once the UAW took over the liability. I sat through the meeting even though I had already left Ford, and listened to the retirees talk about the negative effects of their new coverage during the Q & A portion of the meeting. The fund was suppose to be sufficient to protect retirees for the next 85 years, but coverage levels were reduced from day one of the UAW taking it over. However that still has nothing to do with the active workers coverage. The active workers coverage is another aspect of the contract that can be improved for the members before wages are even considered. There is allot to fix, and just looking at wages would be a mistake. Not saying there should not be wage increases, but they should be last on the list of priorities. Just reinstating COLA to it's original language would protect you all from inflation, and essentially give you raises throughout the year. Otherwise you will be back peddling. Furious long time no hear.....don't waste your time debating chuckie lost cause, you'll see all the profiles are same age.....give him credit for keeping all the different passwords but that's about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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