What's the issue with delivery?

[Dedonut]

What is OKTB?

[RichardJensen]

This type of statement makes me shudder.

Why?

 

It's the truth.

 

Look. If you'd paid $20k, already (as in the check's been cashed and you've got a fist full of nothing to show for it), and as a condition of the sale were promised delivery by March 15th (or whatever), I'd be more sympathetic.

 

But the reality is that the vast and overwhelming majority of Ford owners buy from dealer allocation, and Ford's entire system--from purchasing to build sequencing to transport to monitoring--is geared around the dealer allocation system.

 

-----

 

To pick one item in particular that you mention OKTB:

 

Do you know how OKTB works? Five consecutive days of error free builds. Any error and they start the clock over. That means that Ford cannot under any circumstances guarantee when OKTB will occur.

 

And, of course, your vehicle is going to be slipped in *after* a significant number of dealer allocation. Why? Because dealer allocation keeps the lights on. Custom orders do not.

 

Now, does this make you angry? Frustrated?

 

Well, what's your solution?

 

Go with a hard Job 1 date and ignore any issues with ramp up to full speed production?

 

Should Ford build your custom order before dealer allocation, and ship it to your dealer on a transport all by itself as soon as it rolls off the line?

 

---

 

In short--again--your irritation cannot be solved in a practical manner.

[RichardJensen]

It's like this:

 

You go to the lumber yard, and you wait in line to pay for a few sheets of plywood that you have to load in the truck yourself. Meanwhile a contractor comes up, and they load his flatbed with a forklift, he scribbles his name on a PO and drives off.

 

The lumber yard is making their money off that guy, not you. They give that guy priority treatment, not you.

 

You may not like it, but that's how it is. Ford makes its money off dealer allocation, not custom orders. They do not give custom orders priority.

Edited March 23, 2011 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

What is OKTB?

OKTB = OK To Build.

 

Basically, it means that the line can be ran full speed, and builds can be scheduled.

[Kev-Mo]

This type of statement makes me shudder. Without the consumer (customer) you don't have Ford Motor Company, you don't have dealers, you don't sell cars. If Ford's true thinking is any part what you have just written, they wouldn't be in business today. I can't and won't believe any truth to that. I hope you don't have any affiliation with Ford, and do not seek employment there, ever. This type of attitude is unacceptable in every forseeable way.

 

I can't believe this. Terrible reply.

 

I couldn't agree with you more! But you are about to be hammered! I have been toasted several times on BON by just asking the question: Can we come up with a better way to buy a car than the way it has been done for the past 100 years? My justification is: every other business (including Ford itself), has had to re-invent and do things drastically different than in the past, but not the auto dealer.

 

That being said, there are a lot of good people here that make their living in this system and will defend it vehemently.

 

The best advice I can give you is: Don't become emotionally attached to your truck even before you get it. If you are a reasonable person, you are spending a lot of money on these trucks, and you will keep them a long time to get your money's worth. The extra few weeks you wait will make no difference 2 years from now when you are enjoying your truck.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Kev-Mo

[RichardJensen]

Y'know, Ford bought dealers in the late 90s, and tried to setup minimal inventory 'custom order' systems, and they failed.

 

And I know this is not going to be popular with some people, but I'm going to say it anyway:

 

Going 100% custom order--or even majority custom order would increase Ford's cost, without significantly increasing customer satisfaction.

 

A customer working with a 'build it yourself' app might end up creating a bizarre build that would cost Ford more to produce than a conventional allocation item, yet the customer will be no more satisfied with his 'custom' vehicle than he would be with a similar bit of dealer stock that Ford can produce efficiently--were there no 'build it yourself app' available.

 

---

 

Granted that this system evolved as a wholesale/retail structure, and that because of this it operates most efficiently as a wholesale/retail structure. Still, I don't think that a direct-to-consumer structure could be implemented as efficiently, even if you weren't dealing with the cost of dismantling the wholesale/retail structure (which itself is significant).

 

Does the retail auto industry need to reinvent itself? Yes. Does this mean abandoning the wholesale/retail structure? IMO, no. It is neither a perfect nor a perfectible structure, but that by no means indicates that other better alternatives exist.

Edited March 23, 2011 by RichardJensen

[EdCaffreyMS]

So how does all the bull apply when the truck I'm waiting on IS "dealer allocation"? How do I know that? Let's just say that I have an inside source. As for the rest of your rationalization, it's not even worth an attempt.

 

Concerning customers being willing to accept delays, they may not accept all delays, but you will keep far more customers if you keep them informed, rather than "shutting them out". While the end goal is of course to take delivery of a vehicle, that is not the main thrust of the argument....it's about offering an explanation as to why a vehicle that was released from the factory before the end of Feb is still sitting there.... especially when FoMoCo established and sent an ETA of 7 March to the dealership, who in turn printed that detail and handed it to me.

Just how difficult would it be to transmit a message to the dealer? for example: "Delivery delayed due to QC issues, ETA TBD" That wouldn't make the vehicle show up any faster, but it might just give me the illusion that Ford gives a hoot about the consumer, who buys their vehicles and keeps all those union paychecks coming.

[WillSD]

Also, Ford has already been paid for those trucks.

 

Payment for vehicles is not due until the unit is physically delivered to the dealer. Years ago the clock started ticking as soon as the unit was released from the plant (and the dealer was later reimbursed for interest charges incurred during transit). The current billing system greatly improves the dealer's cash flow position.

[RichardJensen]

That wouldn't make the vehicle show up any faster,

 

See, this is where I have a problem:

 

You've created a scenario where it is impossible for Ford to please you. Therefore, I feel that it is a fool's errand for Ford to even try.

 

Short of access to every aspect of the build and transport process, there will be some point where you will be told, "I don't have that information available." Are you telling me now that you would accept that response at some point in the future? Because it's my belief that whenever you are confronted with that, you will feel that you are being deprived of information that you have a 'right' to know.

 

---

 

It comes down to this: You seem to believe that you should be able to dictate how much information is 'enough' information, and as I said, that is not a winnable proposition from Ford's standpoint.

Edited March 23, 2011 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

Payment for vehicles is not due until the unit is physically delivered to the dealer. Years ago the clock started ticking as soon as the unit was released from the plant (and the dealer was later reimbursed for interest charges incurred during transit). The current billing system greatly improves the dealer's cash flow position.

Really? I thought they were still billing as soon as the vehicle was shipped. There you go then: It's in Ford's financial interest to get vehicles to dealers as quickly as possible, because they're 'floating' the vehicles during transit.

[svtenthusiast]

In short--again--your irritation cannot be solved in a practical manner.

 

And who are you to know every working innard of Ford to state how they can or cant solve my irritation? You seem to think that someone that special orders a car should expect to be less important or a burden on Ford. A sale is a sale, and you don't know how many additional sales can come if it (word of mouth, future buying, might be a CEO of a corp that will buy a fleet of cars later.)

 

 

It's like this:

 

You go to the lumber yard, and you wait in line to pay for a few sheets of plywood that you have to load in the truck yourself. Meanwhile a contractor comes up, and they load his flatbed with a forklift, he scribbles his name on a PO and drives off.

 

The lumber yard is making their money off that guy, not you. They give that guy priority treatment, not you.

 

You may not like it, but that's how it is. Ford makes its money off dealer allocation, not custom orders. They do not give custom orders priority.

 

This goes back to what I said, a sale is a sale. That lumbar yard or whatever store is smart enough to provide everyone with a certain level of customer service. No matter how small, you can be a repeat customer, or heck if you decide to buy a house and buy all the materials from them. Your logic goes against customer service processes we experience every day.

 

And, according to Ford, it's not a custom order priority issue. They were holding retails until OKTB to make sure the quality was there before building them. They don't want ordered cars to come back to the dealership, or as little as possible. If this was the case, why did they offer the pre-order rebate on these cars?

 

 

See, this is where I have a problem:

 

You've created a scenario where it is impossible for Ford to please you. Therefore, I feel that it is a fool's errand for Ford to even try.

 

It's funny you speak like you are the Ford spokesperson in charge of shutting down the opinions of the "idiot, selfish, ungrateful, unable to please" customers that were stupid enough to special order a vehicle. Again, who are you to make such a statement?

 

Almost every bit of logic you have put into your responses here goes against typical customer service practices at any corporation, retail store, etc.

 

We shouldn't have to feel any reservation, or less of a customer because what you have stated here. We are as important to Ford as any other customer. We expect a resonable amount of communication.

[svtenthusiast]

So how does all the bull apply when the truck I'm waiting on IS "dealer allocation"? How do I know that? Let's just say that I have an inside source. As for the rest of your rationalization, it's not even worth an attempt.

 

Concerning customers being willing to accept delays, they may not accept all delays, but you will keep far more customers if you keep them informed, rather than "shutting them out". While the end goal is of course to take delivery of a vehicle, that is not the main thrust of the argument....it's about offering an explanation as to why a vehicle that was released from the factory before the end of Feb is still sitting there.... especially when FoMoCo established and sent an ETA of 7 March to the dealership, who in turn printed that detail and handed it to me.

Just how difficult would it be to transmit a message to the dealer? for example: "Delivery delayed due to QC issues, ETA TBD" That wouldn't make the vehicle show up any faster, but it might just give me the illusion that Ford gives a hoot about the consumer, who buys their vehicles and keeps all those union paychecks coming.

 

Ed, I am with you and you are absolutly correct. I think we have some people think Ford is exempt from giving us customer service, because you know we really aren't their customer, dealer's are Ford's customer. And also, we are just 1 customer, so who gives a hoot about that 1 customer. I don't believe Ford operates with this attitude one bit. They wouldn't be in business for over 100 years if this was the case.

 

As any business or person who thinks logically, every customer is important, and you never assume what business that 1 customer can afford you in the future.

[Vash]

Just an opinion, but you have to see both sides of the argument. There is definitely a point diminished returns where the information becomes more overload than useful, but on the flip side there is also a point at which you aren't providing enough information.

 

First, I'm fine w/ the current level of information the different statuses provide, but I do have a suggestion.

 

The dealerships get up to date information from the manufacturer. It's hard to believe that it would really be that much more difficult to feed the same information to the end customer and basically cut out the middleman. I'm sure the salesmen would rather be selling than typing out email updates anyway.

 

The way I look at it, Ford already has my email address, mailing address, phone number, etc. by various means. How much more difficult would it be to setup an online account to simply track my vehicle order since they already do this for fleet customers as far as I can tell. You could even tie it into the sync account setup since you'd typically have to do that at some point anyway after getting the vehicle. This way the end customer can check his status to his hearts desire and not wonder whether the dealer is just ignoring him or whether Ford Customer Care isn't telling them all the information.

 

Seems it'd cut down a lot of wasted effort spend by dealership and Ford employees in providing basic status updates to customers.

[EdCaffreyMS]

You've created a scenario where it is impossible for Ford to please you

 

I've created nothing....Ford created the scenario...by sending out information that the vehicle was released from the factory, with an ETA of 7 March.......then, failing to meet anywhere near that date, offering no explanation or information what so ever, and then, being either unwilling or unable to answer a single, simple question..... "What is the specific delay?" That, is a customer service issue, no matter how you view it or wrap it.

 

You believe that a customer who is spending $40K+ on a product should not be afforded the same level of customer service that Sears can provide when someone orders a washer or dryer? You need to go back to school and take Business 101.

[svtenthusiast]

You believe that a customer who is spending $40K+ on a product should not be afforded the same level of customer service that Sears can provide when someone orders a washer or dryer?

 

+1

[Marginal Economist]

Well after much work from both myself and the dealer we found this out mid Feburuary. I don't know if there was ever an official document from Ford to the dealers about this or not, doesn't really matter at this point.

 

So that being said, we are past OKTB and still not scheduled. In my efforts I have found out why, but that doesn't negate the fact that most other customers don't get these answers, at least not easily. Since I didn't get good information to begin with, it has added frustration to the wait thus far, only to find out now that the OKTB has passed by 2 weeks, we have much more waiting ahead of us.

 

Again, I'm sorry for the miscommunication. This is not a new policy - it happens on every product launch and new model year vehicles. Over the past 12 months it happened with Mustang, F150, Edge, Explorer - honestly everything. The only exceptions I can recall were for SVT vehicles and the Boss.

[Shovel-ready project]

Richard,

 

I think you missed the point of the OP's original post. He asked "Why can't I get good information from Ford?" He did not say, "I want Ford to change its business model, build my truck immediately and hand-deliver it to me."

 

I think FedEx is transporting more packages today than Ford is transporting vehicles. Yet they can willingly tell me in an instant where mine is and what its ETA is.

 

Do you think Mr. Mulally, in the 1990s, said, "Screw them, don't tell them anything. They will get their 777s when we say so!" I doubt it.

 

Thank You

 

SRP

[svtenthusiast]

Again, I'm sorry for the miscommunication. This is not a new policy - it happens on every product launch and new model year vehicles. Over the past 12 months it happened with Mustang, F150, Edge, Explorer - honestly everything. The only exceptions I can recall were for SVT vehicles and the Boss.

 

Thank you. When I ordered my Fusion 2 years ago, this wasn't in place yet. If I would of known when I ordered, I could of set my expectations better. Or we could of ordered it as a stock unit, which it looks like alot of dealers did for customers. I hope they can move forward with retail scheduling soon so we can go to the next step in this agonizing wait.

[Dedonut]

Richard,

 

I think you missed the point of the OP's original post. He asked "Why can't I get good information from Ford?" He did not say, "I want Ford to change its business model, build my truck immediately and hand-deliver it to me."

 

I think FedEx is transporting more packages today than Ford is transporting vehicles. Yet they can willingly tell me in an instant where mine is and what its ETA is.

 

Do you think Mr. Mulally, in the 1990s, said, "Screw them, don't tell them anything. They will get their 777s when we say so!" I doubt it.

 

Thank You

 

SRP

 

Just a thought from the sidelines: I don't think Fed Ex is a good analogy. They receive a finished product and are solely responsible for it the rest of the way. They don't rely on parts, outside transportation scheduling (e.g., rail)

[RichardJensen]

an ETA of 7 March.......then, failing to meet anywhere near that date

What's the "E" in ETA stand for?

[RichardJensen]

Thank you. When I ordered my Fusion 2 years ago, this wasn't in place yet.

Wrong. Ford's OKTB process has been in place since the early 00s. It may have been implemented with the '04 Explorer.

 

There just happened to be no hiccups with your Fusion.

[RichardJensen]

He asked "Why can't I get good information from Ford?"

And the answer is 'because it's not worth it.'

 

And I know that makes me sound all grinchy and evil and mean, but the a basic principle of business--and indeed life itself--is that you can't please everyone.

 

This guy says he can be pleased. I don't believe him.

[RichardJensen]

A sale is a sale, and you don't know how many additional sales can come if it

No. Not all sales are created equal.

 

And the bulk of Ford's sales will come from dealer allocation for the foreseeable future.

That lumbar yard or whatever store is smart enough to provide everyone with a certain level of customer service.

Right. Ford provides a certain level of customer service. Most people are fine with it. You aren't. This doesn't necessarily mean that Ford has a problem.

 

If this was the case, why did they offer the pre-order rebate on these cars?

Because everybody assumes that OKTB will occur shortly after Job 1. You don't assume, "Well, Job 1 is Jan. 31st, so let's assume OKTB will be March 1, and start running promotions then."

 

Almost every bit of logic you have put into your responses here goes against typical customer service practices at any corporation, retail store, etc.

Actually, no.

 

The logic here is used by every large corporation, and by a fair number of smaller ones. They just don't tell you about it.

 

Ultimately, every corporation decides what information to share with customers. They set limits to what customer service reps can do to please customers and to remedy problems. Anyone who thinks that a good corporation gives its customer service reps carte blanche...........

 

Could Ford provide more information? Undoubtedly. Would it pay off? Maybe. That's why you hire market research firms.

[svtenthusiast]

Wrong. Ford's OKTB process has been in place since the early 00s. It may have been implemented with the '04 Explorer.

 

There just happened to be no hiccups with your Fusion.

 

Wrong? It amazes me that you somehow know all about the order of my Fusion. So you know when it was ordered, it was ordered as a retail unit, was built within the first 2 weeks of production, and has a sticker on the door of 2/09? It had my customer name on the window sticker. So don't try to dispute otherwise.

 

Wow, we need to all bow down to your greatness in knowledge. You can never be wrong, huh?

 

 

And the answer is 'because it's not worth it.'

 

For god's sake, again for the 4th time who are you to make these type of statements on behalf of Ford?

 

 

This guy says he can be pleased. I don't believe him.

 

That's your problem.

 

Right. Ford provides a certain level of customer service. Most people are fine with it. You aren't. This doesn't necessarily mean that Ford has a problem.

 

Do you have the market research to back that statement up? Any time a customer has an issue means Ford has a problem if they are concerned about customer service.

 

No. Not all sales are created equal.

 

I guess in Richard Jensen's world. Your arrogance and attitude astounds me.

 

Because everybody assumes that OKTB will occur shortly after Job 1. You don't assume, "Well, Job 1 is Jan. 31st, so let's assume OKTB will be March 1, and start running promotions then."

 

 

What? Now you are just pulling stuff out of thin air. They were PROMOTING retail orders of the 2012 Focus, back in OCTOBER. Goes against all your previous arguments, doesn't it?

[Dedonut]

No. Not all sales are created equal.

 

And the bulk of Ford's sales will come from dealer allocation for the foreseeable future.

 

Right. Ford provides a certain level of customer service. Most people are fine with it. You aren't. This doesn't necessarily mean that Ford has a problem.

 

 

Because everybody assumes that OKTB will occur shortly after Job 1. You don't assume, "Well, Job 1 is Jan. 31st, so let's assume OKTB will be March 1, and start running promotions then."

 

 

Actually, no.

 

The logic here is used by every large corporation, and by a fair number of smaller ones. They just don't tell you about it.

 

Ultimately, every corporation decides what information to share with customers. They set limits to what customer service reps can do to please customers and to remedy problems. Anyone who thinks that a good corporation gives its customer service reps carte blanche...........

 

Could Ford provide more information? Undoubtedly. Would it pay off? Maybe. That's why you hire market research firms.