How bad are America's finances?

[FiredMotorCompany]

Good. Budget cuts are bad for the economy. Look put away the dolls and stop playing house with issues such as the economy. We both know our household financial system has little to do with how government impacts the economy.

 

Keep your rose colored glasses on or you will be in for a frightful vision of reality. That you choose to think printing money (kiting checks), political double-talk, repeated recalculations after-the-fact of a program's cost over-run and under-performance, politicians talking out of both sides of their mouth, pandering and power broking, are not responsible for negative impacts on our economy, undermines your credibility.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Dude, your better than that. I saw you in the velocity discussion and you know better. Why the pandering? I don't get it. Why the playing it up to those that don't get it and making it seem like something its not.

 

If you want to debate austerity measures then do it, but don't coach it or use analogies that hide the complex reality.

 

This IS an example of using a simple analogy as a valid method of encompassing a complex issue. To me, it is in many ways comparable.

 

You are free to think wrongly.

[FiredMotorCompany]

I think it hides reality and allows people who don't understand the whole nature of the debate to feel like they know what is happening and then go on their merry way with the wrong opinion.

 

Scary, isn't it. But THEY still get to vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trimdingman]

Our credit cards are maxing out sooner and sooner. They raise the debt ceiling. That is analogous to a family being approved for a new credit card, so they can make the minimum payments on all of their other maxed out credit cards. Government is different, in that they can hold interest rates at an artificially low level for the time being. Do they take advantage of this to pay down the debt? No. They take advantage of this to leverage and borrow even more money. Another analogy is the herion addict. Raising the debt ceiling is like giving him a fix of heroin. It eases the pain for a while, but when it wears off, he will be back for another fix. The solution would be to get him off the heroin. The fix for the government would be to do what it takes to increase revenue coming into the country and cut spending. What they are doing is like what the heroin addict is doing. To get the immediate cash for the fix, he will sell off his assets; the government will raise taxes on it's main benefactors, even though in the long run it will mean driving them away. The health of the heroin addict will deteriorate until he dies at a young age. The country will suffer the same fate.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Trimdingman

[FiredMotorCompany]

Our credit cards are maxing out sooner and sooner. They raise the debt ceiling. That is analogous to a family being approved for a new credit card, so they can make the minimum payments on all of their other maxed out credit cards. Government is different, in that they can hold interest rates at an artificially low level for the time being. Do they take advantage of this to pay down the debt? No. They take advantage of this to leverage and borrow even more money. Another analogy is the herion addict. Raising the debt ceiling is like giving him a fix of heroin. It eases the pain for a while, but when it wears off, he will be back for another fix. The solution would be to get him off the heroin. The fix for the government would be to do what it takes to increase revenue coming into the country and cut spending. What they are doing is like what the heroin addict is doing. To get the immediate cash for the fix, he will sell off his assets; the government will raise taxes on it's main benefactors, even though in the long run it will mean driving them away. The health of the heroin addict will deteriorate until he dies at a young age. The country will suffer the same fate.

 

(Imagine the voice of Thurston Howell III from Gilligan's Island..........)

"This issue is too complex to be debated in such simplistic terms. You have to trust us, the intellectually superior elite, to make decisions for you. And should you have concerns that our actions appear to be destructive or counter-intuitive, you must realize you have no frame of reference to understand such matters. WE went to HAAAA-VAHD and YAAAAA-LE so we know better than you. We can spend trillions of dollars that we don't have and you must pay back and we have only your best interests at heart."

[napfirst]

So you came up with a good story but its not true.

 

 

Definition of REALITY CHECK

: something that clarifies or serves as a reminder of reality often by correcting a misconception

[Aces]

Good article from Forbes on what happens when the New Right gets its way

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jameshenry/2011/09/10/the-other-september-11/

 

 

 

Caution....may require reading.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Good article from Forbes on what happens when the New Right gets its way

 

http://www.forbes.co...r-september-11/

 

 

 

Caution....may require reading.

 

So you support swapping one dictator for another, or rather a totalitarian government? You're just passing the leash around your neck from one hand to another.

[Aces]

So you support swapping one dictator for another, or rather a totalitarian government? You're just passing the leash around your neck from one hand to another.

 

 

Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension?

 

Neither I nor the article said that or implied it,

 

Try reading.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jameshenry/2011/09/10/the-other-september-11/

[FiredMotorCompany]

Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension?

 

Neither I nor the article said that or implied it,

 

Try reading.

 

http://www.forbes.co...r-september-11/

 

Can you not think beyond what you read? Independent thought developed from experience, training, education and intellect is a valuable tool. Too bad many here lack that skill.

[Aces]

Can you not think beyond what you read? Independent thought developed from experience, training, education and intellect is a valuable tool. Too bad many here lack that skill.

 

 

In other words...Neil Boortz did not say it so I don't believe it.

 

 

Again .....try reading a little.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jameshenry/2011/09/10/the-other-september-11/

[FiredMotorCompany]

In other words...Neil Boortz did not say it so I don't believe it.

 

 

Again .....try reading a little.

 

http://www.forbes.co...r-september-11/

 

Never said, nor implied that I did or did not believe it. I implied there is much more than your small single-point mentality allows you to grasp.

[Aces]

Good article here on where the REAL money is in tax expenditures.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/ever-increasing-tax-breaks-for-us-families-eclipse-benefits-for-special-interests/2011/09/15/gIQAgdjcaK_story.html

 

"As President Obama and congressional Republicans argue over how to rewrite the U.S. tax code, the debate has revolved around “loopholes” for corporate jets and ending “carve-outs” for well-heeled special interests. But if the goal is debt reduction, that’s not where the money is.

 

Broad tax breaks granted to millions of families at all income levels dwarf the corporate giveaways. Over the past two years, largely because of these popular benefits in the federal income tax code, the government has reached a rare milestone in tax collection — it has given away nearly as much as it takes in.

 

 

President Barack Obama is expected to seek a new base tax rate for the wealthy to ensure that millionaires pay at least at the same percentage as middle income taxpayers. The proposal will be officially unveiled on Monday. (Sept. 18)

 

The number of tax breaks has nearly doubled since the last major tax overhaul 25 years ago, with lawmakers adding new benefits for children, college tuition, retirement savings and investment. At the same time, some long-standing breaks have exploded in value, such as the deduction for mortgage interest and the tax-free treatment of health-insurance premiums paid by employers.

 

All told, federal taxpayers last year received $1.08 trillion in credits, deductions and other perks while paying $1.09 trillion in income taxes, according to government estimates."

 

"No one regularly assesses whether tax expenditures accomplish the goals they were created to serve. Yet, with the rise of an ideology within the Republican Party that shuns big government and vilifies taxes, they have become virtually untouchable."

[Aces]

God piece from the Economist on world and US finances

 

 

http://www.economist.com/node/21530986

 

"Lacking conviction and courage

 

In the aftermath of the Lehman crisis, policymakers broadly did the right thing. The result was not a rapid return to prosperity in the West, but after such a big balance-sheet recession that was never going to happen. Now, more often than not, policymakers seem to be getting it wrong. Their mistakes vary, but two sorts stand out. One is an overwhelming emphasis on short-term fiscal austerity over growth. Fixing that means different things in different places: Germany could loosen fiscal policy, while in Britain the reins should merely be tightened more slowly. But the collective obsession with short-term austerity across the rich world is hurting.

 

The second failure is one of honesty. Too many rich-world politicians have failed to tell voters the scale of the problem. In Germany, where the jobless rate is lower than in 2008, people tend to think the crisis is about lazy Greeks and Italians. Mrs Merkel needs to explain clearly that it also includes Germany’s own banks—and that Germany faces a choice between a costly solution and a ruinous one. In America the Republicans are guilty of outrageous obstructionism and misleading simplification, while Mr Obama has favoured class warfare over fiscal leadership. At a time of enormous problems, the politicians seem Lilliputian. That’s the real reason to be afraid."

[sprinter]

Unlike a heroin addict there will come a time when the public debt can be paid down without a corresponding deterioration of the fragile economy. The cold turkey rightwing deficit reduction will cause a double dip recession and and create more pain for the our country.

 

Quite a pipe dream, but will never happen.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2550156453790090544

[sprinter]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

[Trimdingman]

Revenue has to be increased. I am not talking about trying to squeeze more out of the so called rich, who built the economy. I am talking about bringing more revenue into the country from outside. This can only be done by creating an environment that is attractive to business. Businesses are fleeing this crazed communist wealth-hating Inquisition. It is like the Reign of Terror in France. "Off with their heads." Businesses want out, not in. Moving an existing and depleting resourse around and around, and diluting it with counterfeit will lead to total collapse. It may take a man a lifetime to accumulate a million dollars. The government can create a million dollars from nothing, just print it. That means that the man worked his whole life for nothing. It is all going down the tubes. "It is a mathematical certainty". Just like the Titanic after she hit the iceberg.

[Aces]

Interesting article on "Industrial Policy"

 

http://www.economist.com/node/21530958

[xr7g428]

Link BOMB away.......

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BOOM!

[Aces]

Interesting article on "Industrial Policy"

 

http://www.economist.com/node/21530958

 

 

Link BOMB away.......

 

 

Thanks for bumping my posts to the top of the forum!

[xr7g428]

You are welcome.

 

If you ever decided to express your thoughts, using your own words, I am sure that you would have even more success. Imagine: it would be like having an actual conversation.

 

I realize that you won't do that. You seem to think that people don't realize that you are here to generate traffic for other sites.

 

Eventually the admins here will figure out that there is a cost to them when people click a link and leave the site. When people click on the paid links, BON gets compensated. When they click on your links you are stealing money from BON.

 

Eventually they will discover what it would cost them to hire someone to post links back to their site, by link bombing other sites. And then they will finally grasp exactly what you have been doing for so long.

 

Of course you will deny this, even when I point out that you post links to blogs with such low traffic numbers that it is obvious that they have no following, and do not appear in any kind of search results.

 

So once again, if you are a true believer in your cause, then persuade us in your own words. Or link bomb away and confirm your real purpose.

[Aces]

You are welcome.

 

If you ever decided to express your thoughts, using your own words, I am sure that you would have even more success. Imagine: it would be like having an actual conversation.

 

I realize that you won't do that. You seem to think that people don't realize that you are here to generate traffic for other sites.

 

Eventually the admins here will figure out that there is a cost to them when people click a link and leave the site. When people click on the paid links, BON gets compensated. When they click on your links you are stealing money from BON.

 

Eventually they will discover what it would cost them to hire someone to post links back to their site, by link bombing other sites. And then they will finally grasp exactly what you have been doing for so long.

 

Of course you will deny this, even when I point out that you post links to blogs with such low traffic numbers that it is obvious that they have no following, and do not appear in any kind of search results.

 

So once again, if you are a true believer in your cause, then persuade us in your own words. Or link bomb away and confirm your real purpose.

 

 

This is funny shit!!!!

 

 

Where is your tinfoil hat?

 

Making stuff up about me seems to be a major effort of the right wing posters here......I guess that is all they can do since they object to reading...or learning.

 

 

Sad small minds.

[RangerM]

This is funny shit!!!!

 

 

Where is your tinfoil hat?

 

Making stuff up about me seems to be a major effort of the right wing posters here......I guess that is all they can do since they object to reading...or learning.

 

 

Sad small minds.

 

Thanks, Nick. (Couldn't get that in the other one before)

[Aces]

Seems like the Tea Party Republicans are intent on crashing the American economy.

 

How else would you explain the chain of events since the Republicans took over the house?

 

 

 

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/10/2011104161243750790.html

 

 

"The chairman of the US Federal Reserve has urged congress against implementing spending cuts that could cause more financial turmoil, saying the country's economic recovery is "close to faltering".

 

Ben Bernanke made the appeal in testimony to US legislators in Washington on Tuesday, painting a bleak picture of the economic outlook for the US and the world.

 

Speaking to members of a joint economic committee, Bernanke said recent indicators point to "the likelihood of more sluggish job growth in the period ahead".

 

He called for a credible plan to cut long-term deficits, but said legislators should "avoid fiscal actions that could impede the ongoing economic recovery".

 

"There is evident need to improve the process for making long-term budget decisions, to create greater predictability and clarity, while avoiding disruptions to the financial markets and the economy," he said."

[Cocheese]

This is funny shit!!!!

 

 

Where is your tinfoil hat?

 

Making stuff up about me seems to be a major effort of the right wing posters here......I guess that is all they can do since they object to reading...or learning.

 

 

Sad small minds.

 

Personal attack!!!! Personal attack!!!!!!!