Ktp1989 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Can someone break it down with the hours and how it works....rumors here at KTP that Skilled Trades may go to it. Justing trying to get an idea from some of the other plants currently using it. I have heard alot of workers say they like it...others, not so much. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky@wap Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 We start ours at MAP Mon 6/11. The ones they show in the national contract all suck (especially for night shifters) so we came up with a custom one thats good for all and the co. accepted it. Its 4 crew, 2 day shifts and 2 midnight shifts all 12 hrs. 10hrs straight time 2hrs time and a half and Sunday id 10 straight 2 double. Overtime is working your Regular Day Off, first two days 12hrs time and a half 3 and 4 is 12hrs double time. Schedule is like this; Group 1 - Off 5 work 4 off 2 work 3 then start over Group two just the opposite. The days off sound good but we'll have to see how it goes but ALL plants WILL be going to this. The company saves money and runs with less heads so its win-win for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) DTP trades has been on an AWS for the last 7 years and it is confusing as hell.There are different kinds but the 4-on,4-off works like this;lets say your first day to work is Thursday,you work 10 hours straight time followed by 1.5 hours at 150% with half hour unpaid lunch;Friday repeats;Saturday is mandatory,you are paid 8 straight follwed by 3.5 times 125%;Sunday is mandatory,paid 8 hours straight followed by 3.5 times 150%.Lets say Friday was a company paid holiday{not so fast}you may be required to work 12 hours at 250% or you may be Blacked-out and paid 12 hours holiday.for the mid-night shift company paid holidays are always mandatory because the plant starts back up production the next morning.Also,had Sunday been,,,lets say Christmas,,but NOT a company paid holiday because its Sunday then you would be asked to use a vacation day or take the day off unpaid-excused.Also if you have jury duty and the days you attend court are NOT your scheduled work days you get zilch but if they are you get 11.5 hours pay.Want a single day off?Burn 12 hours personal time.So you worked your block of 4 days and you are offered overtime.The first two days you are off you get 150% for each hour worked and for the last two scheduled days off you work you get 200%.If at KTP you can get language that says that company paid holidays are filled with volunteers and are not mandatory and if you can get paid the full 12 and not 11.5 and just be always availabel {because you are anyways}it would be a plus.Following along the example of workin Thu-Sun.After that you get Mon.-Fri.off and start up again on working Sat.-Tue.Couple points;most family events are on the weekends;company paid holidays can be made mandatory.Bottom line the plant gets 365/24/7 trade coverage for far less money paid in wages compared to the 'old way',the IUAW gets an 'atta boy' from the company and besides what else can we do,all work at Wal-Mart?Final point,do not expect any compassion from that vast ruling majority or workers classified,production who would probably like to see, all the trades outsourced if it meant a one time $10,000 bonus to them.The UAW was formed by people wanting an 8 hour workday with voluntary Sat. and Sun. and holidays but now we must compete globally.Good-Luck to you. Edited June 6, 2012 by Fatso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigander Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 We are starting this BS at MAP Monday...I'll let you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 We are starting this BS at MAP Monday...I'll let you know! Please do, what are the shifts that you guys are going to work?...we are rumored to be trying to go to it by the end of the year. Not sure how they get away with the 11.5....seems to me that the unpaid lunch would be always fall at the worst time for the company...ie, big breakdown? Seems to me that would get paid lunches real quick...but then again if your local union backs you like ours...understandable! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltydog79 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The company getting away with the unpaid lunch has little to do with the local. What enables this is the fact that they have a certain group of tradesmen (leaders) who will work during lunch to keep the company from cutting back on the little perks they get. Another effect of only having 11.5 paid is there is no overlap between shifts. So avoiding coming in early and refusing to work past your quitting time can extend the time of a breakdown considerably. Remember, the company wants this schedule and the only recourse we have is to give them exactly what they want! One thing you should do...get your committee to demand a 7 o'clock start time. At DTP the shift starts at 6:30 so the night shift works all night for afternoon shift premium. This might sound like a small thing but it shows how the company will screw you over for every dime they can squeeze out of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 The company getting away with the unpaid lunch has little to do with the local. What enables this is the fact that they have a certain group of tradesmen (leaders) who will work during lunch to keep the company from cutting back on the little perks they get. Another effect of only having 11.5 paid is there is no overlap between shifts. So avoiding coming in early and refusing to work past your quitting time can extend the time of a breakdown considerably. Remember, the company wants this schedule and the only recourse we have is to give them exactly what they want! One thing you should do...get your committee to demand a 7 o'clock start time. At DTP the shift starts at 6:30 so the night shift works all night for afternoon shift premium. This might sound like a small thing but it shows how the company will screw you over for every dime they can squeeze out of you! that 7am/pm start is big...that's about $5k on $100,000 income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 DTP trades work "Cheaper than anybody".Heard a rumor that the company wants to put us on a one day on-one day off,two days on-two days off,three days on-three days off schedule.Throw in 12 paid 11.5 mandatory and well afternoons the shift that works 6:30pm till 6:30 am{there is no trades mid-nights at DTP}is gonna get hosed.That is a lot of starting and stopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I saw a schedule yesterday that LAP is going to and it would take a rocket scientist to figure it out....why not go with 4 groups working 2 days and 2 nights...4 on, 4 off instead of this bs I saw they were going to. If our local at KTP can get 4 on then 4 off with the 7pm start for us midnighters...then I could live with it. Edited June 9, 2012 by Ktp1989 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilled1 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Yes 4 on 4 off is a great schedule. Fatso dont like it much but out of all of the AWS schedules I think 4 on 4 off is best. You have your choice of just working the 4 on 4 off and get an additional 50 days off per year plus save all vacation for pay in lieu (4 days off every week is like a vaction every week) or working all of the O/T and making over $140,000. Your choice Edited June 9, 2012 by Skilled1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Yes 4 on 4 off is a great schedule. Fatso dont like it much but out of all of the AWS schedules I think 4 on 4 off is best. You have your choice of just working the 4 on 4 off and get an additional 50 days off per year plus save all vacation for pay in lieu (4 days off every week is like a vaction every week) or working all of the O/T and making over $140,000. Your choice Sounds like the best to me also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaw12 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I can only speak about what my experience has been with the AWS. I just was released to go back to my home plant and was at Chicago Assembly. The local leadership got beat up when the 4x2 was put forth to the membership, but after a couple of weeks the backtracking was swift. Most trades like most individuals do not like change but I could get 5 days off in a row to drive back to see my family and if I wanted to work my 3rd and 4th RDO(Regular Day Off) it was double time. We beat up are leadership non-stop and sometimes it is justified, but the trades should commend the Chairman of MAP, LAP, CAP and Wayne who stood together and forced the company to go with the 4x2. My oppinion is the system of AWS's implemented in plants has been on the books for 20 years and the latest version that I worked under was better than I could of imagined. The number of trades that verbally abused the leadership and then had to backtrack was enormous and most of the complainers worked 12 hours 7 days a week before the new schedule, including myself. If you have a chance to get the 4x2 agreement at KTP the trades should do their homework and back the leadership or else the alternative will be not as member friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Work "all the overtime and make $140,000 a year"?Wow you guys got a good oppurtunity.Hey,you can like it.I dont like being forced to work all or part of 5 weekends in a row for time and a quarter and I dont like being forced to work 12`s or mandatory holidays or starting at 6:30 pm for 'mid-nights' at 5% shift premium.You can do your thinking.Just a heads up on a couple points you may want to tweak about the AWS if you can.That is a lot of overtime! Edited June 11, 2012 by Fatso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyJaguar Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Work "all the overtime and make $140,000 a year"?Wow you guys got a good oppurtunity.Hey,you can like it.I dont like being forced to work all or part of 5 weekends in a row for time and a quarter and I dont like being forced to work 12`s or mandatory holidays or starting at 6:30 pm for 'mid-nights' at 5% shift premium.You can do your thinking.Just a heads up on a couple points you may want to tweak about the AWS if you can.That is a lot of overtime! Lots off overtime to sit on your ass! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbownthdrk Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Yes 4 on 4 off is a great schedule. Fatso dont like it much but out of all of the AWS schedules I think 4 on 4 off is best. You have your choice of just working the 4 on 4 off and get an additional 50 days off per year plus save all vacation for pay in lieu (4 days off every week is like a vaction every week) or working all of the O/T and making over $140,000. Your choice As was posted earlier, we started AWS at MAP on 6/11/12. The electricians will probably have the opportunities for 140k.....but i doubt very seriously the mechanical trades will be offerred that kind of OT in final and paint. Maybe at ISA(stamping and body). So far I hate this piece of Shit schedule. Straight time on sat. and sun. for the first 10 hrs? You gotta be shittin' me! What a complete and utter capitulation on the unions part. Personally, I like the 5/8s and optional weekends if they are offerred..../.but I suppose those days are over. Now they have coverage for 3 crew production on the cheap....we will never get the 5/8s back. Thanks alot UAW.......nice work. NOT!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlenut Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 We are the ones who will make or break these F#^%k up schedules. Union can agree to anything they want but We can make it work or not. Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlenut Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I'm not talking about anything that gets anyone fired. Morale is important however. There are productive workers who give it their all and those that just get by. Does the company deserve, today, your 100%-not now, they don't give a sh#t about us and our families. Just doing time.....now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imdadd Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 if it happens, from what we were told is it a year or so away. By then we should have a better idea how this AWS works. As it stands right now i dont see the reason for it here at KTP, but I could be wrong the order bank could shoot through the roof but i just don't see the need with just a five day production schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 if it happens, from what we were told is it a year or so away. By then we should have a better idea how this AWS works. As it stands right now i dont see the reason for it here at KTP, but I could be wrong the order bank could shoot through the roof but i just don't see the need with just a five day production schedule. right now you are correct, no need but the word is that the stacker will be increased from 400+ units to 700+ units and then C-Crew will come back to the bodyshop and paint and at that time the AWS will be on the table. It appears that next July is indeed the target date but like anything else at Ford...subject to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigander Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Let me tell you right now, It BLOWS!!! They will shove it down your throats whether you want it or not. Not one person I know cares for it but, the only choice is picking witch shitty shift you want to be stuck with. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Driver Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 This sounds like a great way to ruin families. Remember the 40 hour week that was so badly needed by people long ago so that they could spend time with their families on the weekend (because that's when so many people had days off) at family functions, church etc. People went on strike and sacrificed to get this because time with family was so important. Now while top management and union continue to enjoy their weekends many on "the floor" will be forced to give it up...or not have a job. BLACKMALE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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