Pulse Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) This has a direct affect on the whole entire structure of Ford Motor Company... will it thrive or die? http://youtu.be/4gYBBE2acxs Edited October 17, 2012 by Pulse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SU-FI Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 ford is going under, everyone needs to hurry and quit now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordguy61mi Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 ford is going under, everyone needs to hurry and quit now Wow, I thought the General was back for a second. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Wow, I thought the General was back for a second. LOL! Nah...but I'll be sure not to say anything about d******ts. How do you feel RTW in Ford buildings would impact the companies performance? We would be fooling ourselves if we thought it wouldn't impact the company 1 way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X NAP MILLWRIGHT Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Why exactly would it be wrong to end favoritism and level the field for contractors? Davis/ Bacon drives up the cost for all government construction projects. This is our tax money being spent inefficiently. Most of these policies will have little effect on FoMoCo. Virginia was/is a RTW state. If this had been the path Ford wanted to take they could have tested busting the union at NAP? The union is doing a fair job of destroying themselves. How many members believe that the union is doing a good job? RTW will force the union to perform at a higher level? Thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailfndr Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Why exactly would it be wrong to end favoritism and level the field for contractors? Davis/ Bacon drives up the cost for all government construction projects. This is our tax money being spent inefficiently. Most of these policies will have little effect on FoMoCo. Virginia was/is a RTW state. If this had been the path Ford wanted to take they could have tested busting the union at NAP? The union is doing a fair job of destroying themselves. How many members believe that the union is doing a good job? RTW will force the union to perform at a higher level? Thoughts? RTW will not force the union to perform better. It will only make them do less. What Union Rep will really fight for someone that no longer pays dues? Besides, what 1st tier employee in their right mind would stop paying dues now that the UAW controls your retierment health care? Thats something any intelligent person is not going to throw away. The VEBA was a bad idea from the start, and many of us will end up with health care in retierment that simply won't cover anything. The current retieres have already taken cuts, those are not going to stop, just get cut deeper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Leeches thats what workers in a unoin shop are, that do not belong to the unoin but will allow the uinions to set their wages and benefits. Example http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/labor-day-list/2005-companies/costco-wholesale-corporation.html The problem is not the Union, the problem is the lack of involvment with the union members who are the power behind any union. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kel25 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Why exactly would it be wrong to end favoritism and level the field for contractors? Davis/ Bacon drives up the cost for all government construction projects. This is our tax money being spent inefficiently. Most of these policies will have little effect on FoMoCo. Virginia was/is a RTW state. If this had been the path Ford wanted to take they could have tested busting the union at NAP? The union is doing a fair job of destroying themselves. How many members believe that the union is doing a good job? RTW will force the union to perform at a higher level? Thoughts? I couldn't agree with you more well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morris Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Why exactly would it be wrong to end favoritism and level the field for contractors? Davis/ Bacon drives up the cost for all government construction projects. This is our tax money being spent inefficiently. Most of these policies will have little effect on FoMoCo. Virginia was/is a RTW state. If this had been the path Ford wanted to take they could have tested busting the union at NAP? The union is doing a fair job of destroying themselves. How many members believe that the union is doing a good job? RTW will force the union to perform at a higher level? Thoughts? Really? You're a Union Skilled Tradesman and say/ask stuff like this? As a Skilled Trades Committeeman, My Plant Committeeperson and I fight everday to keep outside contractors out of the plant. We fight a constant battle to keep the company from outsourcing work that our people (skilled and production) do everyday. You think the company gives us this work (which keeps people like you employed by the way) out of the kindness of their hearts? As Union Reps, we have to submit bids on all kinds of work that the company would love to simply give to an outside contractor. We spend a lot of time on all of these bids and usually win them because our labor force has some of the best tradesmen and is (believe it or not) less expensive to use than most outside contactors. So before you go off asking to level the playing field for the outside contractors, maybe you should do a little homework. The majority of the time that the company wants to use outside contractors is because they don't want to manage the job or they don't have a management team with trades experience. (considering they let go most of the trades bosses and have production bosses with no trades experience supervising us) By the way, your question of "how many members think the union is doing a good job" isn't really a fair question. Just like any position, there are people that take their jobs very seriously and people that don't. Most people have a very limited view of what their Union does on a daily basis on behalf of the people they represent. There are a lot of people that take the responsibilities as a Union Rep very seriously so before you ask a slanted question like that, consider how you would like it if the same slanted question was asked about you. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Why exactly would it be wrong to end favoritism and level the field for contractors? Davis/ Bacon drives up the cost for all government construction projects. This is our tax money being spent inefficiently. Most of these policies will have little effect on FoMoCo. Virginia was/is a RTW state. If this had been the path Ford wanted to take they could have tested busting the union at NAP? The union is doing a fair job of destroying themselves. How many members believe that the union is doing a good job? RTW will force the union to perform at a higher level? Thoughts? Seriously? Davis/Bacon is what keeps the relevant pay at a living wage...you let your boy Romney take it away and see how fast everyone's wages in the United States drops you fool...including ours. That's one of the reasons I put this out there...if wages drop at a Federal level...you'll see more than "trickle down" economics at Ford Motor Company next negotiation cycle...I guarantee THAT! And all RTW would do for FoMoCo is divide the membership, bankrupt the locals, and cause chaos on the floor. Production would be affected in a negative fashion without a doubt. The company might even need to have increased security on the premises... If you've spent ANY time on a production floor you'd know tempers flare for the most minute reasons...let some lazy fuque that opts out of his dues be partnered up with a go-getter union activist on a smokin' hot day in the summer and imagine the potential outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 LOL! Nah...but I'll be sure not to say anything about d******ts. How do you feel RTW in Ford buildings would impact the companies performance? We would be fooling ourselves if we thought it wouldn't impact the company 1 way or another. people please think. think about the people you know, who DON'T work for the uaw. are they better off? is the person who works at wal-mart and makes $8hr and collecting food stamps,(at our/taxpayers expense) because they can't pay the rent. tell me what the hell this so called president has done? Don't stay with or do what the uaw does. they help there own, not the workers. if the uaw say vote for the same, vote for diffrent , your neighbors will thank you! the uaw is WORSE than our goverment!!! you know it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 people please think. think about the people you know, who DON'T work for the uaw. are they better off? is the person who works at wal-mart and makes $8hr and collecting food stamps,(at our/taxpayers expense) because they can't pay the rent. tell me what the hell this so called president has done? Don't stay with or do what the uaw does. they help there own, not the workers. if the uaw say vote for the same, vote for diffrent , your neighbors will thank you! the uaw is WORSE than our goverment!!! you know it! This is what gets things off topic. But...if memory serves me correctly...President Obama is leading this country through the worst economic times since the Great Depression. Ford would NOT exist as we know it...if AT ALL...if GM & Chrysler had been liquidated like suggested. That's what this topic is about...the survival of Ford as we know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X NAP MILLWRIGHT Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Really? You're a Union Skilled Tradesman and say/ask stuff like this? As a Skilled Trades Committeeman, My Plant Committeeperson and I fight everday to keep outside contractors out of the plant. We fight a constant battle to keep the company from outsourcing work that our people (skilled and production) do everyday. You think the company gives us this work (which keeps people like you employed by the way) out of the kindness of their hearts? As Union Reps, we have to submit bids on all kinds of work that the company would love to simply give to an outside contractor. We spend a lot of time on all of these bids and usually win them because our labor force has some of the best tradesmen and is (believe it or not) less expensive to use than most outside contactors. So before you go off asking to level the playing field for the outside contractors, maybe you should do a little homework. The majority of the time that the company wants to use outside contractors is because they don't want to manage the job or they don't have a management team with trades experience. (considering they let go most of the trades bosses and have production bosses with no trades experience supervising us) By the way, your question of "how many members think the union is doing a good job" isn't really a fair question. Just like any position, there are people that take their jobs very seriously and people that don't. Most people have a very limited view of what their Union does on a daily basis on behalf of the people they represent. There are a lot of people that take the responsibilities as a Union Rep very seriously so before you ask a slanted question like that, consider how you would like it if the same slanted question was asked about you. You or the union do not guarantee my job. I have sat in the same meetings you speak of and fought for work. I have been a project leader for several multi- million dollar projects. Contractors can always be beat if some project work is completed on straight time. It gets very difficult when all work is performed on premium time. Qualified management does become a problem. Many issues can be ironed out in a good skilled trades local agreement. As far as non- union contractors working in the plant, that is the fault of the UAW. Virginia was a RTW state but non-union contractors were not allowed to bid or perform any work. Spare me any union praising after the last negotiation. I laugh out loud at the union bumper sticker " The weekend; brought to you by the union". I do understand that some union reps do an excellent job so thank you for your service. The thread was impact on Ford and I do not see a lot changing. We will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X NAP MILLWRIGHT Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Seriously? Davis/Bacon is what keeps the relevant pay at a living wage...you let your boy Romney take it away and see how fast everyone's wages in the United States drops you fool...including ours. That's one of the reasons I put this out there...if wages drop at a Federal level...you'll see more than "trickle down" economics at Ford Motor Company next negotiation cycle...I guarantee THAT! And all RTW would do for FoMoCo is divide the membership, bankrupt the locals, and cause chaos on the floor. Production would be affected in a negative fashion without a doubt. The company might even need to have increased security on the premises... If you've spent ANY time on a production floor you'd know tempers flare for the most minute reasons...let some lazy fuque that opts out of his dues be partnered up with a go-getter union activist on a smokin' hot day in the summer and imagine the potential outcome. I spent 7 years in production before moving into trades. Davis-Bacon costs the taxpayers money that could otherwise be used for more projects, social programs or to pay down the debt. In its current form it has no effect on union or non-union contractors it simply sets the scale for government projects. Depending on where you live in the country the effect could be small or large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 This is what gets things off topic. But...if memory serves me correctly...President Obama is leading this country through the worst economic times since the Great Depression. Ford would NOT exist as we know it...if AT ALL...if GM & Chrysler had been liquidated like suggested. That's what this topic is about...the survival of Ford as we know it. uaw brainwashed worker... talk to a non uaw worker.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 uaw brainwashed worker... talk to a non uaw worker.... They are non too happy...but they need to organize...you know me better than that ski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 I couldn't agree with you more well said. Ya know brother...I've read your post one time too many...but you still have the opportunity to save the sanctity of your good name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 uaw brainwashed worker... talk to a non uaw worker.... I'm going to suggest that if you have that strong of opinion about what was said that you might be brainwashed the other way also. Independents with minimal skin in the game don't call us brainwashed UAW workers. Staunch conservatives with deepseated partisan political feelings do. And they typically self segregate their information sources to those that feed those beliefs instead of question them. So we could ask and probably not get a straight answer but do you typically listen/watch Fox news, Limbaugh, hannity or any of the other talking head shows and are you going to the typical conservative websites, the daily caller, Redstate, the blaze and the host of others? As a serious liberal i always laugh when i hear how the UAW brainwashes us, because the reality is that they are one of the worst at getting out their message to their members. Solidaity is a rag and isn't even worth reading. If i want to examine union positions I go to the AFL-CIO or the teamsters who do a much better job at getting out the material 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morris Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 You or the union do not guarantee my job. I have sat in the same meetings you speak of and fought for work. I have been a project leader for several multi- million dollar projects. Contractors can always be beat if some project work is completed on straight time. It gets very difficult when all work is performed on premium time. Qualified management does become a problem. Many issues can be ironed out in a good skilled trades local agreement. As far as non- union contractors working in the plant, that is the fault of the UAW. Virginia was a RTW state but non-union contractors were not allowed to bid or perform any work. Spare me any union praising after the last negotiation. I laugh out loud at the union bumper sticker " The weekend; brought to you by the union". I do understand that some union reps do an excellent job so thank you for your service. The thread was impact on Ford and I do not see a lot changing. We will see. you're right, I or the union do not guarantee you your job. All we (Union Reps) can do is fight to keep work that our Union members are capable of doing in house. What you are incorrect on is when you say "contractors can always be beat if some project work is completed on straight time." The cost of UAW workers actually goes down when we have to bid work on premium time due to the fact that health insurance etc is no longer calculated into their wages at that point. The point I am trying to make having been responsible for submitting bids is that the UAW is one of the least expensive trades options out there. I have seen a hell of a lot if bids for project work from outside contractors and you would be amazed at the amount of money these guys ask for. Yet Ford is willing to pay more simply because (I hear this alot) they are not in the construction buisness, they are in the production buisness. Yet they have Highly Skilled tradesmen that are capable of doing this work while saving them money. At the Van Dyke plant, our Skilled Tradesmen have saved Ford alot of time and money time and time again. But with every new job that needs to be done, we STILL have to fight to keep the work in house. All i'm trying to say is that without a union fighting for work, this company would be more than happy to outsource the very work you and I do brother, eliminating any chance of advancement beyond production coordinator. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'm going to suggest that if you have that strong of opinion about what was said that you might be brainwashed the other way also. Independents with minimal skin in the game don't call us brainwashed UAW workers. Staunch conservatives with deepseated partisan political feelings do. And they typically self segregate their information sources to those that feed those beliefs instead of question them. So we could ask and probably not get a straight answer but do you typically listen/watch Fox news, Limbaugh, hannity or any of the other talking head shows and are you going to the typical conservative websites, the daily caller, Redstate, the blaze and the host of others? As a serious liberal i always laugh when i hear how the UAW brainwashes us, because the reality is that they are one of the worst at getting out their message to their members. Solidaity is a rag and isn't even worth reading. If i want to examine union positions I go to the AFL-CIO or the teamsters who do a much better job at getting out the material no i try not to watch any tv shows. uaw production employees are payed at least $28hr. second tier... i don't count them, you should, because they will vote for what you get in the future....thanks to the uaw. so if i as a uaw worker want to put some of my pay to v-cap.. will it go to the right or left? do i as a uaw member have a choice to where it goes? is that right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelincolns Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 It's amazing how Romney wants to level the playing field in America between union and non union workers but has no problems with corporations going overseas in order to pay workers slave wages with hardly any worker safety regulations. What ever happened to the level playing field? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X NAP MILLWRIGHT Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 you're right, I or the union do not guarantee you your job. All we (Union Reps) can do is fight to keep work that our Union members are capable of doing in house. What you are incorrect on is when you say "contractors can always be beat if some project work is completed on straight time." The cost of UAW workers actually goes down when we have to bid work on premium time due to the fact that health insurance etc is no longer calculated into their wages at that point. The point I am trying to make having been responsible for submitting bids is that the UAW is one of the least expensive trades options out there. I have seen a hell of a lot if bids for project work from outside contractors and you would be amazed at the amount of money these guys ask for. Yet Ford is willing to pay more simply because (I hear this alot) they are not in the construction buisness, they are in the production buisness. Yet they have Highly Skilled tradesmen that are capable of doing this work while saving them money. At the Van Dyke plant, our Skilled Tradesmen have saved Ford alot of time and money time and time again. But with every new job that needs to be done, we STILL have to fight to keep the work in house. All i'm trying to say is that without a union fighting for work, this company would be more than happy to outsource the very work you and I do brother, eliminating any chance of advancement beyond production coordinator. The biggest risks with self- performing work are unforeseen issues that would prevent work from being completed. This could possibly halt production. The contractors generally have very high liquidated damages in their contract which results in a high bid price. If in- house trades were not to complete a job due to these issues the company has no recourse except to discipline a supervisor or not award future work. A contractor assumes this risk and liability and it does come with a price. I was not clear on the labor cost issue. Guys were willing to filter on and off of the project during their regular work day. Some project work was completed for no cost to the project. Instead of waiting in the shop for a call, project work would be done. Ford is paying trades to be there for 8hrs. regardless. Some guys would not do this but that's their choice. I always wanted the work to stay. It does come down to a lack of competent management. Despite what is said on this thread, or by any politician, union and government apprenticeship programs produce superior tradesman. Some may be more motivated than others.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 The biggest risks with self- performing work are unforeseen issues that would prevent work from being completed. This could possibly halt production. The contractors generally have very high liquidated damages in their contract which results in a high bid price. If in- house trades were not to complete a job due to these issues the company has no recourse except to discipline a supervisor or not award future work. A contractor assumes this risk and liability and it does come with a price. I was not clear on the labor cost issue. Guys were willing to filter on and off of the project during their regular work day. Some project work was completed for no cost to the project. Instead of waiting in the shop for a call, project work would be done. Ford is paying trades to be there for 8hrs. regardless. Some guys would not do this but that's their choice. I always wanted the work to stay. It does come down to a lack of competent management. Despite what is said on this thread, or by any politician, union and government apprenticeship programs produce superior tradesman. Some may be more motivated than others.... ...and should be compensated for their "superiority"! Which leads back to my point that I think they would suffer under Romney's plan to dispose of Davis Bacon. Production would surely follow...then you have people REALLY pissed off. If they were mad at this last contract...how do you think they will feel if the Romney plan goes through? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 ...and should be compensated for their "superiority"! Which leads back to my point that I think they would suffer under Romney's plan to dispose of Davis Bacon. Production would surely follow...then you have people REALLY pissed off. If they were mad at this last contract...how do you think they will feel if the Romney plan goes through? hey pulse... when did the membership last get a raise? this is 2012. thanks for your answer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 Well...the question will soon be answered!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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