Flat Rock 2 tier skilled trades!!!

[fordmichiganman]

Sad times at ford

[factoryrat67]

Great post, very informative

[Decker]

Sad times at ford

It seems, the list just keeps getting longer there at Flat Rock....

 

Maybe voting for just two Occupational Groups (production classifications) was the opening of the door? What next? erasing the lines of demarcation?

 

Here at CAP the push to start, restart or jump start the FPS concept is on its way.... the new or newer way the idea (FPS) will work is to "simplify all classification groupings". In the past the Occupational Groups (production classifications) had accountability wrote into the local agreements by placing a complete "description of each Occupational Grouping" (production classification). These descriptions gave the members a form of reassurance when the company had a need arise... break downs, parts shortages or man power issues. But, over the years these classification descriptions have slowly been reduced. Within each "Occupational Grouping" there are seperate codes for each classification. Sound familiar? Well, it should, because these descriptions of worked preformed by the members that worked to get their classifications within these Occupatonal Groupings was born from the Trades Grouping Agreements. "Lines of Demarcation" As of the last local agreement, the Occupational Grouping descriptions have completely disappeared from the local agreement.

 

Not many were paying attention to the removing of or really cared about or understand these description.....

Here is just one referance to these descriptions of Occupational Groupings, page 77, Article VIII, Section 10, Volume 1, latest (greatest) IUAW agreement. (there are many references)

 

Now the discussions about FPS and the Trades Groupings. (the Skilled Trades) All I can say is the term "Cross Functional Work Groups" seem to be a favorite term coming from the company. This is where the big eraser will be pulled out and the blurring of the lines will start.....

 

It seems the company has been working at "simplifying" the production classifications for a few years. We all have herd it said "anyone can do the work".... The company through re balancing of work or combining of similar operations has reduced the work force year after year. This method has worked in the production operation why not the in the Trades operations????

 

Flat Rock is a prime example of a local agreement that will leave the door wide open for all types of sad days.....

 

Good luck Flat Rock.... maybe those members sitting in the local negoctiations should have tryed to close that barn door before they called it a ...done deal?

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

[Pioneer]

What is a tier 2 skilled tradesman? Never heard of it.

[fordmichiganman]

New employees will never make what the rest of us trades are making here. Hostile work environment, union here is telling them if they are able to transfer to another plant and transfer back they will make equal pay.

[fordmichiganman]

New employees will never make what the rest of us trades are making here. Hostile work environment, union here is telling them if they are able to transfer to another plant and transfer back they will make equal pay.

[fordmichiganman]

Same with new apprentices here

[trailfndr]

Decker, Flat Rock has had no classifications for production since it opened in 1987. It was not something” Voted On" it was how the plant was set-up from the start as a Japanese plant. The system in and of itself is not the problem, Although Trades were treated differently due to the unique skill sets required. The downfall of trades has been the companies goal for the past several years in all facilities. Combining occupational groups, eliminating some, is the companies way of making Trades weaker than they were, Just as they have done with production in nearly every plant.

 

It’s carrying "Lean Production" to a new low so that workers (production AND Trades) will be doing more work, saving the company money and increasing the profit margin.

Its not just Ford, or even Automotive, Its happening across the board in workplaces of every type. Getting more done, with fewer workers, is the new American Creed for Management.

 

Its not going to change for the better, it’s going to continue to get worse, until such point as workers (Union and Non-Union) get fed up come together to do something about it. We are regressing to a time before the union Movement, and eventually, we will reach the point of history repeating itself and Unions starting over and becoming what they SHOULD be...An advocate for the worker, and not a political power.

 

Unfortunately, you and I, and probably most, if not all, current workers, will not live long enough to see the cycle start over again. It will take much longer for workers to understand our current system, of cut, cut, cut, Hurts families, and the ability for them to enjoy the American Dream. Our Generation had it pretty good, our grandkids, won’t be so lucky.

Edited March 5, 2013 by trailfndr

[factoryrat67]

Do they have 2nd tier apprentices at frap

[fordmichiganman]

No apprentice will make current journeyman wage. Have like 12 apprentices

[factoryrat67]

So you're talking the difference of a couple dollars, or is it more substantial

[tooltime]

New hire trades make the same hourly rate as current Journeyman. They also have a contributory pension .

 

I dont know where the OP is getting his wrong information but obviously he/she is not a very bright poster

 

Actually the new trades at our location are very thankful for the UAW negotiating all of this investment in our plants to give them a chance to work at Ford.

[tooltime]

New employees will never make what the rest of us trades are making here. Hostile work environment, union here is telling them if they are able to transfer to another plant and transfer back they will make equal pay.

 

What are you smokin?? New Trades make the same hourly rate as current trades--

 

Are you drunk or just stupid??

[tooltime]

No apprentice will make current journeyman wage. Have like 12 apprentices

 

Hey dummy-- Does it make you feel better to tell lies?

 

Apprentices will make full Journeyman wages at the end of their apprenticeship--

[fordmichiganman]

Listen there is a grievance in about this. New hires were told to wait for internationalsunio oberhall, to retire which he did a few days ago. Now they are telling them to wait for next contract. I know map and dearborn hired new electricians, so did flat rock, but flat rock hired them for less. Local union is supporting skilled trades two tier. What do you not believe about this

[fordmichiganman]

Listen there is a grievance in about this. New hires were told to wait for internationalsunio oberhall, to retire which he did a few days ago. Now they are telling them to wait for next contract. I know map and dearborn hired new electricians, so did flat rock, but flat rock hired them for less. Local union is supporting skilled trades two tier. What do you not believe about this

[fordmichiganman]

Reskills at flat rock make full scale, not new hires and apprentices

[Decker]

Decker, Flat Rock has had no classifications for production since it opened in 1987. It was not something” Voted On" it was how the plant was set-up from the start as a Japanese plant. The system in and of itself is not the problem, Although Trades were treated differently due to the unique skill sets required. The downfall of trades has been the companies goal for the past several years in all facilities. Combining occupational groups, eliminating some, is the companies way of making Trades weaker than they were, Just as they have done with production in nearly every plant.

 

It’s carrying "Lean Production" to a new low so that workers (production AND Trades) will be doing more work, saving the company money and increasing the profit margin.

Its not just Ford, or even Automotive, Its happening across the board in workplaces of every type. Getting more done, with fewer workers, is the new American Creed for Management.

 

Its not going to change for the better, it’s going to continue to get worse, until such point as workers (Union and Non-Union) get fed up come together to do something about it. We are regressing to a time before the union Movement, and eventually, we will reach the point of history repeating itself and Unions starting over and becoming what they SHOULD be...An advocate for the worker, and not a political power.

 

Unfortunately, you and I, and probably most, if not all, current workers, will not live long enough to see the cycle start over again. It will take much longer for workers to understand our current system, of cut, cut, cut, Hurts families, and the ability for them to enjoy the American Dream. Our Generation had it pretty good, our grandkids, won’t be so lucky.

 

trailfinder, I agree, 100%.

 

I should have said, with the complete withdrawl of Mazda the work force had or will have the chance to negotiate some form of classification descriptions. This like the lines of demarcation is the only accountability we have left.

 

I, like you have seen the articles removed or the wording change over the years, in the different agreements. We have watched as our negotiators overlook, forget or just plain didn`t bring the issues to the table. In the master agreement there are multiple references to giving the locals the abilities to negotiate on the local level, with the hopes to tailor an agreement for the locals issues. But, this is where I guess, the ball gets dropped.

 

My point is, there are differences in the worked preformed. Across the plant floor there may be similar operations but thats where it ends. We have let, for what ever reason, the preception that our work is less and less a skill or that it dosen`t take any skill at all to do our operations. In our current master agreement the negotiators reference Occupational Groups, two main groups. The "Skilled" Occupational Groups, are the groups that carries a higher hourly rate across the listings. This group even has lanuage for carrying seniority within the groupings. (very similar to date of entry) But, ask any two members and you will get the same response, "are you apart of a skilled occupational group?" no, I`m not in Trades, I work the line.....

 

After all these years I guess what I have seen is a watering down, filtering and the complete lack of the exchange of information. Its there, the abilities to negotiate an agreement tailored for each facilities issues but when has it been used? This last master agreement still references this option but it does state the local agreement has to have the NFD`s agreement to any local agreement. I`m not sure about how many locals are in the same boat as CAP but, you can`t tailor any local issues if there isn`t a local agreement..... seniority within occupational groupings, shift preference, transfers between departments, bidding on open operations and even the AWS are all open for local negotiations.... but, why is it like a big ol hot potato?? not one rep or candidate will talk about the local negotiations?

 

We have allowed the slow but sure degrading preception of our skills and abilities that we use to do our operations, to become something that any half wit can do in their sleep....

The day our IUAW allow the preception that our skills and abilities to preform these operations can only demand 50% less of the hourly rate metioned in the "Skilled" Occupational Groupings listings.... is by far the biggest mistake any negotiator`s could have ever made.

 

I watch members running to keep up, I know cycle times are over the limits, I watch forklifts and tow motors speeding just to keep up and in the back of my head I can`t stop thinking about how the IUAW and Ford believe... it`s an unskilled, low abilities work force and membership that is producing such numbers, ....highest production numbers, production rates higher than in the companies peak production of years ago and efficiency levels that have never been achieved before..

 

One, number that few have seen, is a number that Wall Street watches very closely.... the number is over $809,000.00 per each and every unskilled, low ability employee in, revenue....

 

I also agree with you and the fact that the union will have to hit the bottom and we will have to re organize the whole purpose of unity and fight for the peolpe that finally wake up to the fact that they are not Unskilled and do have Abilities...

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

Edited March 6, 2013 by Decker

[tooltime]

Reskills at flat rock make full scale, not new hires and apprentices

OK, So all new skilled hires and apprentices at all locations except FRAP are getting full scale outlined in Vol 1 Art. 9.

[fordmichiganman]

Skilled trades rep bob madden is telling us every ford plant is doing this. I have a friend who is new electrician at map so i know he is full of shit. This is the same guy who was brought back 3 weeks early on layoff ahead if others to run for position. He also will not do anything against company demands because of his words"new stamping engine and transmission plant coming, thank me"

[tooltime]

trailfinder, I agree, 100%.

 

I should have said, with the complete withdrawl of Mazda the work force had or will have the chance to negotiate some form of classification descriptions. This like the lines of demarcation is the only accountability we have left.

 

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

 

 

My neighbor has been at FRAP since Mazda started. Half of those workers are still original Mazda. Try to change their team language and there will be a revolt.

 

So this rant on FRAP and open capacity does not have anything to do with product going from CAP to FRAP does it??? Hmmm

[fordmichiganman]

Yes just at frap, but we are told this is everywhere.........lie

[fordmichiganman]

Rant on frap???? I am saying two tier trades bad news, does anyone know anyone on international level for help?

[fordmichiganman]

Way more than half of us were mazda

[Decker]

My neighbor has been at FRAP since Mazda started. Half of those workers are still original Mazda. Try to change their team language and there will be a revolt.

 

So this rant on FRAP and open capacity does not have anything to do with product going from CAP to FRAP does it??? Hmmm

What product? going from or coming too?

 

What is FRAP producing now? MKS? Fusion? MKZ?

 

Rant?

 

Decker

1 of the 1788