jschmitt3 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) Looks encouraging! but when you look deeper ... if it were not for the MKZ, Lincoln sales would be down again ...... The MKS, MKT, MKX are all floundering .... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-motor-company-u-sales-133000454.html http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/10/lincoln-brand-sales-figures-usa-canada.html Edited May 1, 2013 by jschmitt3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Looks encouraging! but when you look deeper ... if it were not for the MKZ, Lincoln sales would be down again ...... The MKS, MKT, MKX are all floundering .... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-motor-company-u-sales-133000454.html http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/10/lincoln-brand-sales-figures-usa-canada.html I wouldn't say MKX is really floundering. It's holding relatively steady. MKS...well...it's a lame duck. The absolute only reason to buy it over the MKZ is if you want the 3.5 EcoBoost. MKT...no surprise at all. Honestly, MKZ sales are the only ones that matter to the brand at this point as it's the only vehicle in the lineup so far that actually points toward what Lincoln is trying to accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) The new MKC will be the sales booster.... Can't wait for a new Navigator.... It needed an update ages ago. So, Lincoln will have a sturdy line-up in the near-future, and I'm sure we'll see some surprises along the way(Mustang based 4 door coupe). By 2030, Lincoln should be a very well respected luxury brand again. Edited May 1, 2013 by nruggiero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschmitt3 Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 The new MKC will be the sales booster.... Can't wait for a new Navigator.... It needed an update ages ago. So, Lincoln will have a sturdy line-up in the near-future, and I'm sure we'll see some surprises along the way(Mustang based 4 door coupe). By 2030, Lincoln should be a very well respected luxury brand again. re 2030 ..... I sense some sarcasm here .... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iiari Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 re 2030 ..... I sense some sarcasm here .... :-) Actually, that's not a bad target. Cadillac is about 15 years into their reinvention, and only this year did they introduce their second new age volume volume model (the ATS) and many would argue that they're about another 10-15 years to fully reestablishing their reputation. The new head of Infiniti (who came from Audi) I also think has talked about Infiniti's work to come being something like a 15-20 year process. So Lincoln as a name to hold right up there with Audi, MB, and BMW by 2030? I think that's not such a bad goal, perhaps even a bit optimistic given the evidence... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 re 2030 ..... I sense some sarcasm here .... :-) Nope. It takes a long time to rebuild a tarnished brand name like Lincoln. Like Iiari said, Cadillac is 15 years into their reinvention, and they're still not on top yet. It just takes time to erase bad images from the brand and build a good and consistent reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) So Lincoln as a name to hold right up there with Audi, MB, and BMW by 2030? I think that's not such a bad goal, perhaps even a bit optimistic given the evidence... It isn't a bad target at all, but we'll see. Historically, it takes 15-30 years to build a strong and sturdy brand/company. I've been told by an insider Lincoln's reinvention is about having a brand that can accommodate $40-240,000 vehicles. So, we'll see what the future holds for Lincoln. Edited May 2, 2013 by nruggiero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 ^ &: The new MKC will be the sales booster.... Can't wait for a new Navigator.... It needed an update ages ago. So, Lincoln will have a sturdy line-up in the near-future, and I'm sure we'll see some surprises along the way(Mustang based 4 door coupe). By 2030, Lincoln should be a very well respected luxury brand again. hi guys if we're talking reputation/perception, I guess it could take 10ish years AFTER a worthy lineup for the vehicles themselves I've still got my deadline of approx. LAIAS 2018 ...when I want the first 2020my Mercury to be shown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 ^ &: hi guys if we're talking reputation/perception, I guess it could take 10ish years AFTER a worthy lineup for the vehicles themselves I've still got my deadline of approx. LAIAS 2018 ...when I want the first 2020my Mercury to be shown I'm not sure Mercury will come back or not. Wings and wescoent certainly don't think so. I just don't like getting my hopes up. My question to you is: would a trim level better than Titanium solve your Mercury craving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iiari Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 if we're talking reputation/perception, I guess it could take 10ish years AFTER a worthy lineup So 10 yrs AFTER an already worthy lineup. So assuming about 5 years per generation, that's talking three full generations per line. That sounds about right. Look at the CTS, for example. The first generation was the breakthrough, "proof of concept model." The second generation was the, "Wow, they're for real" model. And the third generation CTS (just introduced) everyone is treating as the eagerly anticipated next generation of an "established" competitor. Same thing for the three generations of the Audi A4. So, assuming that the "new" Lincoln is established as MKZ, C, X, S, and Navigator plus or minus a model or two (I still want to see a new T be a JX competitor), that means they'll have that "worthy" lineup by around 2016. Assuming Ford does their part and delivers great products over the subsequent generations that means that 10 years and two more generations on from there is roughly 2026 to be an "established" player, around the 2030 nruggiero suggests. That's believable, if Ford put pedal to the metal and delivers great vehicles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iiari Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Looking at overall industry sales numbers, there are some things that just amaze me: The German big luxury three do about 60,000 sales per month. That's amazing. MB alone did 25,000. Lincoln did 7600 with record MKZ sales, and a resurgent Cadillac did about 13.000... Wow, there's a way to go, but it shows how much potential Lincoln has with a competitive full lineup... It's believable with new MKC and MKX's down the road that they could double these numbers... And no wonder Ford wants Lincoln in China, or anywhere else for that matter... Showing that no one listens to reviewers (or us on boards), the lackluster Acura, who has done everything possible to shoot themselves in their collective feet, is UP for the month, and they did about 14,000, more than Cadillac.. Again, wow... No one listens to enthusiasts case number 2 is Lexus, who again proves it's better to have momentum than be good. They're UP and at about 18,000 sales, almost 50% more than Cadillac and more than double Lincoln... Wow again... Lincoln and Infiniti are neck and neck in sales. Given that Infiniti has a pretty full, competitive lineup (compared with Acura and Lexus, and especially with Lincoln's MKZ and friends current lineup) that has to be expensive to develop, the Renault/Nissan folks have to be pulling their hair out... How long can Tata keep Jaguar in the US with only 1000 sales per month? That's only 25% of Porsche's volume and a third of Land Rover's. I hope they make a lot per car. How can you invest in future product and compete with, oh, say, MB with only 1/25th of MB's volume? No wonder Ford looked to dump them... Same for Maserati at 200... What on Earth is Nissan's appeal? They are up a ton to 80,000 per month, always 4 times what the infinitely more interesting Mazda (who was down) sells... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) ^ my idea isn't based on generations, Iiari but on a full lineup-wide achievement... ...for example, Cadillac doesn't count yet, not because of the worth of any generation of CTS but because they've only just brought out their 2nd worthy vehicle, the ATS (the XTS doesn't count as worthy imho no matter how nice of a lux0barge it may be; since Cadillac has declared for a non-barge goal... ...an XTS-matching Lincoln COULD count since Lincoln's target is broader, at least imho) Add the cy2015 LincStang(s) to your ZCXSNavi grouping** and IF they're all 'worthy', I'd vote for perception improving to the Reputation level by 2025ish IF the first gen of Any of those^ doesn't measure up THEN the whole Brand's Rep will be on-hold ** I'd prefer the ultralight Navi + some kind of Aviator to squeeze out the MKT permanently I'm not sure Mercury will come back or not. Wings and wescoent certainly don't think so. I just don't like getting my hopes up. My question to you is: would a trim level better than Titanium solve your Mercury craving? Nope it's not a matter of gussying imho in some respects Titanium is already gussyer than necessary for non-Premier Mercurys - tho lacking in other specifications Also as I said in Mission2020, Ford-Global already has the building blocks in models that don't seem to fit in Ford-NA's lineup. That difference of "fit" is PART of the difference in DNA between Ford & Merc imho Edited May 2, 2013 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschmitt3 Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Oh one more point about those April numbers for the MKZ..... Lincoln said that MKZ buyers are spending 20% more per car than they did last year. While the 2013 bases slightly higher than the 2012, this 20% can be largely attributed to higher trim levels. In a certain sense, higher trim levels equate to the "luxury experience" which is what Lincoln is trying to achieve. Once this trend is established, new buyers will look to do the same, and dealers will be ordering fewer and fewer base trim cars for their dealer inventories. This could take 5 years before the MKZ (by itself) really gets a foothold. But all things considered 4012 units is not all that bad when you compare to the 5000 done by the Lexus ES in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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