Iiari

Organizational culture is sooo hard to guess. I'm sure we've all seen people promoted, demoted, etc for the most petty and head scratching of reasons... Talent and reputation only take you so far, and after that there are infinite games to be played. In my experience, the people who reach the tippy top of ladders are either ultimate domineering/bullying personalities who claw their way up or ultimate suckups/yes-men who boot lick their way up. Everyone else (i.e. normal people), especially talented people with their own opinions and ideas, rarely gets very far because they'll eventually trip up on something or someone along the way. They just create too much work for everyone around them and they eventually tick everyone off. So it's impossible for us to really know what happened. A few solid interpretations though from my experience in organizational life: Whatever they say about public press releases and VP levels, silence is ALWAYS bad... If it was a positive group hug experience, we'd know about it. Bad blood, a bad episode, misgivings, whatever... It's never good... That he's still there means nothing... Just could be finishing up the MKS, and then he moves on to "spend more time with his family"... Who knows... Given the microscope Lincoln is under in the press right now, this really has to have been a disaster. Not good to be changing, you know, only your DESIGN DIRECTOR just at the start of a brand reboot and before the first model to hit the road from that director has seen its first dealership. I know nothing about his replacement, but it sounds like that person is more Ford corporate vet than design superstar, which is never good in my mind... Given that this actually happened in Dec '13 and he was brought on in '10, things really must have been bad all along, as such moves aren't made overnight. This may explain the hesitance, the lack of a take no prisoners attitude, the one foot on the gas and other foot on the brake feeling that we've all sensed in this process. We've never gotten the "All for one! One for all! Lincoln's gonna crack heads and take names! Take no prisoners! Arrrggh!!" attitude from Ford regarding Lincoln the way you would hope and heard from other companies charging back with brand reboots. Maybe deep doubts and issues regarding Wolff and crew were what we were sensing... Let's all now watch that new Lincoln design center they promoted so heavily about a year or two ago and see how long that item on the corporate balance sheet lasts... Should be interesting. The media has been roasting Lincoln and this is going to just turn up the flames...

Pretty much. In my 3 months with the car so far, I've been very impressed. Driven in cold New England with presumptively winter blend so far, my 55 minute each way commute mixed with 40 min of highway (at 5 mph over the speed limit) and 15 minutes of back road yields me (driving the car like a hybrid) about 43 MPG. And it does matter how the car is driven. If you totally ignore the hybrid gauges and just floor it all the time, driving it "like a real car" (as some put it) I would say I average about 35-37 MPG on the same commute as above (still pretty amazing given my Saab got me 17 MPG on the same commute with premium only gas). Driven with attention to maximizing launches, brake coaching, and keeping the best blend of driving in EV mode I get that 43 MPG. Just puttering around town doing errands (especially if no one is behind me) I've hit 67 MPG. It's just an amazing car thus far. Certainly not perfect, and the driving dynamics are certainly far from fun (I have my Saab for that), but playing with "Engage" mode trying to maximize your MPG almost is like a challenging computer game. Quite enjoyable!

I remember years ago reading that this would be the era when we'd see the end of leather surfaces (and other traditional materials). The reasoning was that synthetics were soon going to look better, feel better, be softer, more durable, and even smell better and have better temperature control. Not to mention also being cheaper. I guess we aren't quite there yet. If Lincoln (or any maker) were the achieve the above, I'd be very happy to trade it for the "real"stuff myself...

The C - Max has had a lot of bad press recently, given the reliability reports and gas mileage adjustments. As for the Cruze vs Focus, while I would rather have the latter, I do think the Focus looks more "economy car" in its proportions and style while the Cruze looks more midsize, more traditionally substantial. Just a guess...

So, my MKZ now has a date to leave the factory of Dec 28th. Now, I will have to take time off in advance to go pick up the car. Being VERY conservative here, what does everyone recommend I estimate for time of delivery to a northeast dealership? Thanks!

So, my MKZ now has a date to leave the factory of Dec 28th. Now, I will have to take time off in advance to go pick up the car. Being VERY conservative here, what does everyone recommend I estimate for factory delivery to a Northeaa

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Out of curiosity, do any sources rank the worst resale values? There are many great vehicles that for a variety of reasons don't hold their value well and can be bargains used....

Sunset would probably have been my second choice. There was a sunset MKZ sitting next to the dark side MKS and is a great, vibrant color. I really do like the look of dark side, but think Lincoln should change the appearance on the website, which makes it look more like what other makers have called midnight blue (which I love).

Well, I now have a VIN and have been informed that my car will be done at the factory around the New Year. If you recall, I ordered "Dark Side" as my exterior color sight unseen, as I wasn't impressed by any of the other colors and save for black I prefer to order my cars in actual colors rather than shades of white or grey or silver. Well, today I got to see "Dark Side" for the first time on an MKS at a local dealer. It's an interesting color, not at all what I expected, and not really at all what it looks like on the website configurator. In direct sunlight, it's actually a very dark green, but unambiguously green. Really, and not at all what I expected. Now, interestingly, in non-direct light, it starts to look dark blue-green, while in shade or lower light it looks dark blue, and in the darker light it looks black. Amazingly, as on the car I was looking at, which had parts of the car that were in direct light and had parts of the car in the shade of an object, you could see all of these manifestations of the color at the same time. Pretty intense. None of these, though, look like the deep, dark blue of the website configurator. They should color it in that dark blue-green to be more accurate. I'm sure I'll still enjoy it, because if nothing else it's fascinating to see its various manifestations in different light, I Iike dark colors overall, and I wasn't in love with any other hue. But if you're very particular about your colors, I'd advise you to see it before you order as the configurator doesn't really give you a good idea and it doesn't really photograph accurately as well... PS: If you google online, there are some posters on some Ford boards I've now seen today who get some accurate photos of the color swatches from display boards.

Actually, now, BMW does have a lesser brand, MINI, and they actually do a lot of platform and parts sharing. Listen, does the average public care about RWD, or details of stability systems, or who parts are shared with? Of course not. Put consumers DO care about "image," and for better or worse, there are "imaging makers" and shapers out there, and for better or worse the enthusiast press is a big component of that. And the enthusiast press is going to keep pummeling Lincoln until they do an exclusive model, RWD or not. If I'm Ford, I frankly would spend the money to do a 4 door coupe based on the Mustang platform just to shut up the "image makers." Even it it loses money, they could write it off as a Lincoln marketing expense, possibly the best marketing of all. Look at Lexus, for example. Their big money makers are the ES and RX, which are "gussied up" Toyotas. BMW's big sellers share platforms and parts with MINI. Audi/VW share all over the place. Why do they get passes on this? Because all those brands do bespoke models with bespoke platforms that elevate their place in the brand pecking order in the opinion of the "image makers." I personally have zero problem that my upcoming MKZ shares a lot with the Fusion. I don't want the Fusion, I want the MKZ. And obviously (witness the new MKC) LIncoln gets they need to more and better differentiation. I agree. But I also think long term, just to shut up the press, they need to do a flagship four door Mustang.

I was wondering the same thing. It looks very, very similar, but looking back to back with MKZ photos, I'm guessing it's smaller diameter and has a thicker rim, as is current fashion generally. I'm somewhat disappointed they still went with the generic Ford turn/wiper stalks you'll find on a Fiesta or Focus (especially considering the concept had slick bespoke pieces), and still haven't changed the MLT graphics from the Ford counterpart. That said, I'm super impressed by everything else. I think it was the NY Times article on it that said that the MKC actually makes the MKZ "look better" since it contextualizes and reinforces the Lincoln design language, and I agree. I'm doing a 2 year lease on my MKZ Hybrid order that should be done in a few weeks, so by the time I'm ready to turn that in around late '15, I'll potentially look to move to what will be a year 2 production of the MKC (maybe hybrid by then?). Niiice.... Wolff's excellent detail work with this model and the Lincoln design themes makes me excited to eventually see an MKS concept...

Well, the XTS was something of a stopgap until the true flagship (not the super-expensive one they stopped development on) appears in a few years. It'll probably go away then. I agree Caddy needs a hybrid somewhere pretty soon. Overall, given their strategy to play in the BMW/MB/Audi sphere, I actually think Caddy is doing a good job...

I think that would be a great idea, especially with Infiniti throwing down the gauntlet with the Q50 hybrid which has a lot of power and pretty decent (but not MKZ Hybrid) MPG.

I've posted elsewhere here about MKZ reviews, and how they are an automotive Rorschach test of the reviewer. I'm in my 30's age-wise and just placed an order on an MKZ, and absolutely feel that it's worth the premium over the Fusion and that reviewers are just in an echo chamber of reviewer conventional wisdom. And that's after also test driving an ATS, CTS-V, ES, and Verano Turbo. Why is it worth the premium? Very simply, here's why: If you love the look of the MKZ in and out and think it's one of the most unique looking vehicles on the road (as I do) , and you think the Fusion is just nice and OK (as I do), it's absolutely worth the money right there. End of review... If you aren't impressed by the look in and out, and find the Fusion's styling preferable (as it is very different), then you probably don't think it's worth the premium. End of review... As an example, I think the Toyota Avalon is much better looking in and out than the ES and if I wanted one of those, I'd probably go Avalon... Reviewers seem to be ignoring all the unique elements, like the V6, adjustable suspension, panoramic roof, etc or don't think they are worth anything... I think reviewers are comparing it against the wrong vehicles. It's not a sports sedan, and sports sedan buyers probably shouldn't look at it at all. Thus, the IS, ATS, 3-series comments are really off the mark. It's like comparing it to the Suburban because they're the same price, apples and oranges... Regarding the Regal, I don't feel it's a convincing near lux model. I looked at it and it feels about 15 years behind the MKZ in styling inside and out. I didn't drive it, but I can believe it might be a better driver, considering the Verano Turbo was actually quite impressive overall. That said, I still think Ford should do the following relatively quick fixes for the MKZ: Banish the Ford control stalks for the wiper/turn signals and door switches. Similarly, different graphics and more options for the MFT/MLT and hybrid instrument screens... More "sense of occasion" with the push button transmission Change the material flanking the central console from that hard grey plastic which does honestly take the dash feel down a grade... I'm all for relaxed luxury as a goal, but the Verano is just as super quiet and smooth (maybe a tad more so) but feels far more dialed in and communicative as a driver. That's actually the car I think they should target for ride/handling mix... That platform absolutely has the capacity to feel better than it does in current tuning... Similarly, across the range, 0-60 needs to be competitive. Again, it's not a sports sedan, but you've got to be market competitive there or reviews will destroy you... I still think the entire range is overpriced by about $1500 to $2000... I wanted to go American, and did, but I also thought about the Q50 hybrid as well. Seeing some new ones on the road, though, I frankly don't think that looks like a $50+K car and not nearly as special looking as the MKZ.

Without tax (which varies from place to place and which, in the state I'm leasing, needs to paid up front) the best offers I received for a zero down 24 month lease varied from about $610 to $640 per month. The highest ranged from about $680 to about $720 (sadly, my preferred dealer), again without tax. The higher offers (with one exception) come from the dealers with the least local competition. The online configurator listed a price of $740 per month without tax. Send me a PM here if you're interested in more details.

Hi everyone... As an update to my MKZ search and ordering update, let's jump to the most important news, I finally picked my dealer and placed my order! Yeah! I'm one of you! I'm taking a bit of a risk, as I'm ordering my Hybrid in the Dark Side exterior color that I've haven't yet seen in the metal, but I'm so underwhelmed by the other colors and I know I like most dark hues, so I decided to take the risk. I definitely won't see myself coming and going if nothing else. I also specified the Hazelnut interior color (which I love). As far as options, I went with the Preferred Package, Technology Package, ActiveMotion seats, single panel sunroof (the panoramic didn't appeal to me), rear sunshade, cargo net, and all season mats. In the process of deciding on the MKZ, I had previously decided in the middle of my search process that for now I'm going to hold on to my flashed, 320+ HP '08 Saab Turbo-X AWD manual rocket wagon. It's nearly paid off, over 100K miles, and keeping it takes the pressure off me to get a sport sedan, get an AWD vehicle for snowy days, or get soemthing for utility. I was originally going to sell it. Keeping it, however, allows this lease purchase to just be all about my daily commuting grind and my MKZ won't have to be a "do it all" vehicle. It just has to keep me as comfortable as possible as efficiently as possible for 90 minutes per day. The MKZ hybrid will do this spectacularly and was the obvious choice. To be honest, if I wasn't keeping the Saab, I might have gone with an ATS, or a used CTS-V wagon might have been really compelling, but after the driving the CTS-V I wasn't as smitten as I thought as I would be (and it's less fun and less fast feeling than my Saab)... It wasn't always obvious, though. I was initially thinking about getting a "do everything" vehicle. I had decided that the American makes had sufficiently compelling product for me to support US makers after years of Saabs, BMW's, and MB. I previously had Tauri SHO's and SVT Contours as well, and felt burned by Ford after they abandoned those brands, so this is a return of sorts. While initially looking for a "do it all" car, I drove the MKZ with and without panoramic roof, the Caddy ATS and a used 2011 CTS-V. I also drove a Lexus ES (just to make sure I wasn't crazy in looking at the MKZ). I also had seat time in a Buick Verano Turbo and very briefly in a 300 SRT. I didn't drive a Fusion, but one dealer had one all but sitting next to a MKZ so I would go back and forth. If anyone has any comparative questions, let me know. Driving all these cars so close to one another, I stil think the MKZ is incredibly impressive and competitive and that the automotive press is brand-blinded and on crack... As far as my dealer emailing experience following up from my above posts, here's how it went: My lease price is about $1000 less than Truecar said people are paying on average for my MKZ as outfitted... My 24 mo, zero down monthly lease rate is an impressive 18% less than the Lincoln configurator listed and happily less than I was budgeting... I approached 11 Lincoln dealers in the Northeast over a 4 state area total in the end... Of those 11, nearly all replied by my emailed request for a quote but only about 5 gave me an actual number. When I requested further details (factor, lease price, fees, etc), only 3 of those really came through, and 2 of those only after repeated prompting and emails on my part. Most dealers would email me back saying they could only go further only if I came into the dealer or if I "call the dealer manager." Uh, no... My closest, preferred 2 dealers didn't give me numbers at all. I had to call and beg them to give me a quote over the phone and both were very noncompetitive, with my closest dealer giving me the least competitive number of them all. They also argued everyone else's deals "had to be them making errors." Amazing... Monthly leases varied dramatically, as much as $120 separating the high and low number, but 3 of the 7 I had numbers from were clustered on the low end, which was good and reassuring... So that's my tale. I'll email Lincoln a more detailed report of my experience. If anyone is looking for who the really good, competitive, responsive Lincoln salespeople are online in the NY/NJ metro, message me through this site and I'll let you know. I'll also suggest who to avoid. In the Mass/RI NE area, I had some good salespeople, but no competitive pricing at all. I really look forward to eventually getting my car and reporting back!

This is one of those things that you just have to drive to figure out for yourself. Personally for me, when I drove the MKZ, I was far enough forward that, as the driver, I didn't really notice either one so I figured I would save myself the money and just do the regular. It's the same for me in my current car. Unless I check to look, I can't tell if my sunshade is open or closed when driving. The only vehicle I have driven in some time where I felt that the sunroof was very noticeable and changed the experience for me as the driver was the Buick Verano Turbo which, BTW, is actually very impressive.

What do you consider the ES's biggest feature to be, or the C-Class', or the 5-series. What makes a 5 special or unique?

What's the line from Star Wars from Obi Wan to Luke, "So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view." That's what I was thinking as I was reading the review. Basically, what are your expectations of Lincoln? If you're expecting a bespoke sports sedan in the 3 series mold and that's what you're comparing to, then yes, in many areas, it's not going to measure up. It's soft by comparison, or is it? If you're expecting an upscale coach experience that takes an excellent Ford vehicle and upgrades it, imbuing it with its own unique sense of style and flair, then the MKZ is a strong and solid competitor, or is it? More than any other vehicle I recall in recent times, the MKZ is the ultimate vehicular Rorschach test. It's a measure of the driver's automotive soul that says more about the person than the vehicle. Look at all the widely divergent reviews. It's a great and pleasurable drive, or it's soft and smushy. It's a strong and smooth performer, or its a dog. It's got great seats, or its intolerably uncomfortable. It's a strong value that feature for feature is thousands less than its competitors, or it's a criminally overpriced Ford Fusion Titanium. It's a welcome individualization for Ford's upscale lines, or it's a rebadge. Both perspectives are probably correct, from a certain point of view, and that view depends upon your expectations. If you *expect* that Lincolns should be A-list, bespoke sports sedans going mano-a-mano with Caddy, BMW and MB, then you're probably going to be underwhelmed. If you *expect* a second tier Acura-esque vehicle that is Ford derived but bristles with upscale features, comforts, and style at a competitive price, then you're going to be happy. It depends upon what you expect. Which Lincoln *should* we expect? Well, as far as I've read, Ford is aiming to be an excellent second-tier brand right now targeting big market niches with, if successful, a future attempt at leaping up to A list. If you're argument is that Ford *should* aiming for A-list Caddy/BMW/MB level right now, well, that's a different argument for another thread and isn't about the MKZ of today. How many A-list brands can the market support? This is an existential question many brands are deciding right now. Some, like Lexus and Jaguar, have decided to go for broke and aim for those brands. Others, like Volvo, are having a civil war in their HQ about whether they go upmarket and aim for the S-classes of the world or if they go mid-range and aim for the TL's of the world. Other makes, such as Honda with Acura or GM with Buick, appear to be solidly and publically in the entry premium class. And Lincoln? Ford's public statements indicate they aspire to be an excellent second-tier brand aiming at large market niches that, if all goes well, might vault for A-list. Is that OK? As a 39 year old who is about to order an MKZ Hybrid and has driven and owned BMW's, MB, Saabs, Contour SVT's, and Taurus SHO's, it's OK with me. I'm fine and down with Lincoln being a "Better Mercury." I'm keeping my thundering, modded, 320+HP, AWD, manual Turbo-X wagon for the fun weekend drives in the twisties. What I want and need, though, is a relaxing, comfortable, premium vehicle that looks fantastic and modern inside and out that gets great MPG and is a good value in its class and resonates with me emotionally. For me, that's the MKZ. I don't want a Ford Fusion, and I don't want a BMW 5 series. I want an MKZ, and about 3000 or so people a month seem to agree. That said, I believe to fully succeed, Lincoln does need to do a few things in the future: - I still think the entire line is overpriced by about $2-3000 if they really want to drive the value equation home, and I don't think there should be a "base" MKZ as it is now... - They need to be HP and 0-60 competitive with the class with every engine (save hybrid, for now) or they are inviting critique. Not be sport sedans, but be in the performance game... I think they'll get that with the upcoming engines... - I believe reviews are right that they're not 100% there yet making sitting in an MKZ a different sense of occasion than in a Fusion. They're about 3/4 of the way there, but not all the way yet. Happy, all the interviews I've read with Lincoln people indicate they get this... This is fine now, but does need to be fixed fast. I'm greatly looking forward to my MKZ, and to following the evolution of this brand into the future. I think the MKC will be a solid success and very much believe the next MKS will be critically important to setting the future tone. Sorry for the length, but reviews like this one just make me mad...

Thanks for the advice overall. Not sure how to judge this, but of the 4/8 dealers who have given me quotes so far, all stock around 32 MKZ's. Two of them have hybrids on the lot (5 at one, 3 at another) and the other two have none at all. Any way I should interpret this or not really?

Well, the way I put it, I'm looking just for the "statement." That means a strong Lincoln styling theme, a handle on better differentiation from Ford, elements that give sitting in Lincolns a consistent sense of occasion across the range. How "bold" it is will be in the eye of the beholder, but they've made clear they are aiming for an understated elegance from Lincoln in the future, so I think it'll be pretty toned down. I would agree with this. To paraphrase of my dearly missed Saab's classic ad slogans, Lincoln is going to look to "find its own road," something closer to the space Lexus is vacating of "relaxed luxury." Again, a good example is Acura, which (save for the random upcoming NSX) just serves as an "above Honda." For all the venom slung at it by reviewers and auto nuts lately, I think they've had record sales, so the buyers don't care what the buff mags think. If Ford's in the same position with Lincoln, they won't care either as long as any kind of sub-60 year old demographic are happy customers. Totally agree. While I think it's a stretch to call the MKZ a sales home run, the fact they are racking up record sales for the MKZ model is extremely healthy and uplifting considering: Their brand awareness is not the best... Their not yet modern dealership base is kind of a scattered, unfocused mess... Their buying demographic is in transition The model is a huge paradigm change from where they've been before And arguably ALL the MKZ's already established competitors were replaced or refreshed in the same year (ES, Avalon, Regal, Genesis, etc)... Again, all encouraging. It's just as easy to imagine a scenario where everyone ignores Lincoln, traditional buyers walk away from the MKZ, and the new younger interested buyers like me (I'm 39 and about to buy) don't give Lincoln the time of day. Happily for LIncoln, that all isn't happening and as a result of that overall trend I think the upcoming MKC will likely be a very, very solid success....

Great perspective, and one I'll definitely keep in mind. Much appreciated! Oh, yeah, a question also: How do I know how big a dealer is and where they are in the allocation pool? Frankly, I'm in no rush, and an extra 3-4 weeks to wait would be worth saving $400 a year...

I wish I had that kind of arrangement and, if all goes well here, hopefully it'll become that for me in the future... Another question for everyone: When I'm emailing them to clarify deals, they're emailing back saying, "Oh, just call our sales manager, and he'll help you further." All the advice sites I read say to avoid this like the plaque, that there shouldn't be anything to discuss, that they at this stage should just be able to email you a quote with details. What think all of you? I don't want to call and haggle with 8 dealers...

Good points, I'm not sure. Q4 ends December 31st and I'm hoping this process will be done by week's end, so I should be OK. My guess is they are sliding these things anyway, throwing out the numbers and making it work by sloshing other variables around... Regarding your second line, my "preferred dealer" (such as it is, I don't have a strong preference, and I didn't even ask my closest dealer as I've been very unimpressed with them) was one of the last to contact me, and I let them know the numbers from others, so we'll see. I'm expecting a lot of emails tomorrow. While everything has been professional so far, I'm afraid of the football being yanked away at the last second and things changed when I'm ready to sign on the dotted line. So a question for all of you: If hypothetical dealer A has the best offer but terrible online reviews, but hypothetical dealer B is, say, $15 more per month but has a great reputation, should I go with A or B? Remember, this is just to buy the car, I'm probably going to get service elsewhere.