Henry Tomasino Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Hey guys, I've been searching the web for a clear answer to my current situation, but I guess it's kind of a unique situation. I currently drive an 08 Fusion which I bought for co-op at university. I live in Toronto, ON right now, finishing my last semester of school. I've got a job offer in Vancouver, BC which I've accepted, requiring me to move there after graduation. Now, I really, really want a new Fusion. However, I don't have time to handle a private sale of my old Fusion, with course work occupying my time, and exams in April. I only have about a month after exams before starting work in Vancouver, so I can't just put my old Fusion for sale after exams and hope someone is interested. I really would like to avoid firesaling my current car (i.e. going to the first dealer and taking whatever criminally low price they offer), if at all possible. I want to do a trade-in for a new car, which gives me more leverage over the price, and I only pay sales tax on the difference between the new car and the trade-in. Does anyone know of a way that allows me to do a trade-in for a factory order in Ontario, but have the car be delivered to BC instead, hopefully at not too much extra cost? Any help would be much appreciated! If there really is no way to do what I want, then I have three options - which do you guys think is best: a) Pay about $1,300 to ship my old car to BC, then trade in for a new car at a BC dealership b) Trade in for a new car in Ontario, and pay about $1,300 to deliver it to BC c) Do (b) but embark on a great Canadian/American road trip instead of paying for delivery. It could be fun, but means wasting a week of what little vacation time I have. Accommodation and gas might actually make it more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris1970 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I would do the drive to BC, would be a nice drive. There is no guarantee when the factory ordered car will arrive, I wouldn't take the chance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 You'll probably get just as much doing a private "fire-sale" as you would on a dealer trade-in. Trade-ins are wholesale but dealers will often play games with the price on the new car to make you think you're getting a better deal than you are. There is no reason to ship it. Find a dealer to buy it. CarMax will do that in the states. Take it to a used car dealer if necessary. Just remember that even if you get a lower amount you're saving $1300 in shipping. Then just buy the new one when you get to Vancouver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Tomasino Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I would do the drive to BC, would be a nice drive. There is no guarantee when the factory ordered car will arrive, I wouldn't take the chance. It certainly would be cool, haha. Still would rather spend that week chilling with my pals though :P As for waiting for a factory delivery, I should've mentioned that I have family in BC whom I'll stay with before getting a place, and I can borrow one of their cars or take public transport. You'll probably get just as much doing a private "fire-sale" as you would on a dealer trade-in. Trade-ins are wholesale but dealers will often play games with the price on the new car to make you think you're getting a better deal than you are. There is no reason to ship it. Find a dealer to buy it. CarMax will do that in the states. Take it to a used car dealer if necessary. Just remember that even if you get a lower amount you're saving $1300 in shipping. Then just buy the new one when you get to Vancouver. Thanks for the advice. If a trade-in is indeed the same value as a dealer firesale, then any sales tax savings from doing a trade-in would be offset by the cost to ship the car to BC. I don't know why I was under the impression that a trade-in gives more value than a firesale... If anyone's curious, my current car is an SEL V6 AWD with a spoiler, sunroof, navigation, and reverse sensing. 119000 km on the odometer. Bought it for 12k in May 2012, hoping to make 8 grand when I get rid of it. I plan to either finance a brand new 2.0L SE FWD with leather, parking assist, and MFT w/nav, or get a "new used car" (one year old) with a cash purchase, that has the options I want (autotrader.ca shows many matches like this). One appealing part of a factory order is that I can omit the sunroof which I consider the most useless option ever conceived for sedans, but I wouldn't complain if I got a good deal on a "new used" Fusion that had a sunroof in addition to everything else I want. Edited January 22, 2014 by Henry Tomasino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks for the advice. If a trade-in is indeed the same value as a dealer firesale, then any sales tax savings from doing a trade-in would be offset by the cost to ship the car to BC. I don't know why I was under the impression that a trade-in gives more value than a firesale... Because trade-in prices are usually higher than wholesale prices when taken by itself. Think of it this way - every used car lot at every new car dealer buys cars at auction - wholesale. They also sell some cars at auction if they don't want to keep it on their lot any more. Why would a used car dealer give you $15K for a trade-in when they can go to the auction the next day and buy the exact same car wholesale for $13K? The answer is they won't. They're really only giving you $13K - the other $2K is coming from the new car sale, one way or another. There can be exceptions if your trade-in is a vehicle they really really want and can't easily get at auction, but that's rare. That's also why you should make the deal for the new vehicle without discussing any trade-in. That way you know they're not playing games to get you the price you want on the new one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Tomasino Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) In that case, the most likely choice I'll take is finding a used car dealer (plenty of those in Toronto) to take my 08 Fusion, and then I'll buy a new car after settling down in BC. Unless I'm somehow persuaded to make a great road trip, lol. Thanks for the helpful info! I also realized I could potentially save 2-3 grand (at the present exchange rate) getting a US-spec Fusion imported from Washington state, but it may not be viable considering the limited time I have before starting my new job. Edited January 22, 2014 by Henry Tomasino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybridbear Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) In that case, the most likely choice I'll take is finding a used car dealer (plenty of those in Toronto) to take my 08 Fusion, and then I'll buy a new car after settling down in BC. Unless I'm somehow persuaded to make a great road trip, lol. Thanks for the helpful info! I also realized I could potentially save 2-3 grand (at the present exchange rate) getting a US-spec Fusion imported from Washington state, but it may not be viable considering the limited time I have before starting my new job. If you want to special order, you could find a dealer in Vancouver now online and place your order now so that your new car will be waiting for you when you arrive in BC. I'd also highly recommend a hybrid or Energi Fusion as well. BC is rather electric friendly and has a great climate for hybrids. Edited January 23, 2014 by hybridbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Tomasino Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 If you want to special order, you could find a dealer in Vancouver now online and place your order now so that your new car will be waiting for you when you arrive in BC. I'd also highly recommend a hybrid or Energi Fusion as well. BC is rather electric friendly and has a great climate for hybrids. The Energi gets a $3000 tax rebate in BC for being a plug-in hybrid, which was almost an incentive except that the trunk is nearly non existent :/ I would consider a hybrid though if I get my budget to fit. I'm budgeting 30k max with taxes (before what I can get from trading/selling my old car) so if I get a new car only the gas SE model really fits the budget. If I get a slightly-used one, I do see a few hybrids that fit the budget (saw a loaded one with 30,000 km for ~ 26k). A brand-new hybrid simply commands too much of a premium over the base model (at least in Canada), compared to the long-term gas savings (even at ~ $1.30/litre). While my new job has a good wage, I'm not too keen on getting into debt this early in my life, haha. I'd avoid doing financing w/interest if I can help it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybridbear Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The Energi gets a $3000 tax rebate in BC for being a plug-in hybrid, which was almost an incentive except that the trunk is nearly non existent :/ I would consider a hybrid though if I get my budget to fit. I'm budgeting 30k max with taxes (before what I can get from trading/selling my old car) so if I get a new car only the gas SE model really fits the budget. If I get a slightly-used one, I do see a few hybrids that fit the budget (saw a loaded one with 30,000 km for ~ 26k). A brand-new hybrid simply commands too much of a premium over the base model (at least in Canada), compared to the long-term gas savings (even at ~ $1.30/litre). While my new job has a good wage, I'm not too keen on getting into debt this early in my life, haha. I'd avoid doing financing w/interest if I can help it. The Fusion Hybrid S starts at $28,699 in Canada, I don't know how much the Provincial Sales Tax is in BC, but I know that Canadian taxes are very high. I also commend you for wanting to avoid debt. My wife and I are in our mid-20s and the only debt we have is what's left on our loan from our FFH. We financed less than half of the purchase cost though, so we don't owe a lot and will have it paid off in less than 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Tomasino Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 If you want an exact figure, an SE hybrid is $40,616 CAD with all the options I want, including 12% sales tax in BC. Dollar's no longer at parity, so make that $36k USD. An identical US spec model (before tax) is $33,135 USD. My savings from engineering internships are high enough to cover the total cost, just that I'm a little paranoid and always want a minimum figure in my savings for a rainy day :P On a side note, my university is awesome, they have a program where you can take a break after third year and work full time for 12-16 months before coming back to school. I did it and thus I can afford a car before I actually start my job :D Glad to hear that you're still in "good health" despite financing your Fusion! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybridbear Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If you want an exact figure, an SE hybrid is $40,616 CAD with all the options I want, including 12% sales tax in BC. Dollar's no longer at parity, so make that $36k USD. An identical US spec model (before tax) is $33,135 USD. My savings from engineering internships are high enough to cover the total cost, just that I'm a little paranoid and always want a minimum figure in my savings for a rainy day :P On a side note, my university is awesome, they have a program where you can take a break after third year and work full time for 12-16 months before coming back to school. I did it and thus I can afford a car before I actually start my job :D Glad to hear that you're still in "good health" despite financing your Fusion! Wow! BC taxes are steep. I guess that's the price for the beauty and the health insurance...I have family on Vancouver island and love visiting BC, I think it's one of the most beautiful places in the world. My wife lived in Abbotsford, BC for a few years while growing up and loves BC too. If we ever move to Canada we would move to BC. Are taxes lower in Ontario where your tax savings would be less than the cost of driving the car across Canada? I am a big fan of hybrids, and here is part of how they can make financial sense. The link to the full article is in the quote. I'm also a big fan of hybrids because they're the least polluting cars overall. Electric cars are cleaner if you have a clean electric grid, but not if you have a coal powered grid like we do in Minnesota. Ford’s Fusion SE Hybrid ($27,995) costs $1,700 less to own over five years than the Fusion SE gas-engine model ($24,515). Read more at http://www.kiplinger.com/article/cars/T009-C004-S002-why-hybrids-make-sense.html?si=1#fcRPthHkxEcSoOlK.99 Anyhow...I just always like to take the opportunity to encourage people to look at hybrids. Here are some of the benefits (both cost benefits and driving experience benefits) I often tout: No complicated automatic, belt-driven CVT or manual transmission & clutch to break/wear out or have to change fluid in - the eCVT (not like a regular CVT at all) is an elegantly simple design (something I'm sure you'd appreciate as an engineering grad) Silence at stop lights with the ICE off Silence much of the time in city driving because the ICE is off Perfectly smooth acceleration with no transmission shifts Smooth sounding acceleration with no changes in engine loudness from RPM increasing & decreasing as the transmission shifts Perfectly smooth braking with the Generator doing most of the work until the brake pads kick in at low speeds (compared to brake pads on conventional cars where the stopping power at the same level of pedal pressure changes over the life of the pads) Hybrids have no starter to wear out There are no belts or parasitic loads Regen braking results in very low brake wear (brake pads/rotors often last 150,000+ miles) The engine runs less than 100% of the time (usually about 40-60%) resulting in longer engine life and less oil changes Spark plugs last for 120,000 miles or more 40+ MPG year round average The Fusion is an excellent car and I know you'll enjoy it because all Fusion models are incredibly comfortable and well designed. We had the chance to drive a Fusion Titanium (with a lot more features than our car) one time while having some warranty work done, and while it was very nice, the driving experience just doesn't compare to the refinement of driving a hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Tomasino Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) haha, tax in Ontario is actually 1% higher, 13%! However due to the market there being somewhat more competitive, it may be possible to negotiate a lower price regardless. Still it may not be enough to justify the time spent to drive back home. The sales taxes can be hurtful at times, but having previously lived in Singapore and Australia before coming to Canada, and also looking at European prices, I can say that Canadians get a pretty good deal relative to most of the world on a lot of consumer products including cars, even if we often pay more than Americans do (when the dollar is at parity). Even though Singapore's sales tax is 5% and Australia's 10% (nationwide, no separate state taxes), the cost of goods in those countries is sky high and so Canada is actually significantly cheaper despite the higher sales tax. I've sat in hybrids before, yeah - mostly the Prius, and the quietness always amazes me. I'll definitely get a hybrid if the budget fits, otherwise I'll settle with a gas-only SE - then get the hybrid of the next gen Fusion several years later :P $1,700 less to own at American gas prices? Now we're talking haha. Edited January 23, 2014 by Henry Tomasino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Tomasino Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Update: What do you know, I just received a mother of a windfall from my university for academic achievement! Ford may raise prices soon due to the exchange rate going down to 90 cents (and probably further). But I now have a budget for a new Fusion Hybrid SE. So I've decided to wire the money to my parents (who live in BC) and have them buy the car for me on my behalf. Add in $1000 off for my dad being a Costco member and we have a winner. Can't believe my luck Next step - trade in my old Fusion after final exams... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybridbear Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Update: What do you know, I just received a mother of a windfall from my university for academic achievement! Ford may raise prices soon due to the exchange rate going down to 90 cents (and probably further). But I now have a budget for a new Fusion Hybrid SE. So I've decided to wire the money to my parents (who live in BC) and have them buy the car for me on my behalf. Add in $1000 off for my dad being a Costco member and we have a winner. Can't believe my luck Next step - trade in my old Fusion after final exams... Wow! Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermans Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 How are you going to handle the double taxes? I suspect if your father is going to purchase the car on your behalf it will need to be titled in you name. Then you will need to transfer the title when you get there and again pay taxes. Glad it worked out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Tomasino Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) How are you going to handle the double taxes? I suspect if your father is going to purchase the car on your behalf it will need to be titled in you name. Then you will need to transfer the title when you get there and again pay taxes. Glad it worked out for you. Nope, not getting taxed, my dad worked it out with ICBC (BC's equivalent of the DMV). If it's a gift transfer among close family members (the family restriction is very strict) with absolutely no money being exchanged then no tax is paid. There will still be the standard registration fees but they total up to < $100. I think only a transfer between spouses/(grand)parent-child/sibilings qualifies as a tax-free gift. Otherwise friends would conspire to defraud the system haha. My dad's going to the dealers tomorrow afternoon for test drives and negotiations. The factory price is $39,616 including sales tax, delivery, A/C tax, etc, and the Costco rebate. Hopefully my dad can knock it down a little more! Btw, the economics of the Fusion hybrid seem to work out fairly well in Canada. A similarly spec'ed 2.0L Ecoboost SE costs only $2,408 less than the hybrid with the configuration I want. It'd take 24 months of $100 savings to pay off - possibly less with BC's gas prices. I'll start off staying with my folks for at least a few weeks, and it's a 19 km drive to work from their house, plus I can see myself frequenting places that are 10+ km away when off work. If I average around 7-8 L/100 km, compared to the 13-14 my current 08 Fusion gives me, the hybrid does pay for itself. Edited January 26, 2014 by Henry Tomasino 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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