N.A. Of The Year Contenders

[ANTAUS]

LINK-Autoweek.com

[OrlandoGuy80]

Not a great year for Ford!

 

My bets: Toyota Camry and Chevy Silverado.

[ANTAUS]

Usually with this award, it goes to someone who has brought something different to it's segment, while incorporating technology that is cutting edge, a vehicle that redefines the segment, one that is much improved from the earlier versions....etc.etc.

 

I personally think the Aura has a chance, since it's much improved of what Saturn had before (L300). IT's a vehicle that is taking Saturn upwards in market perception. It's also one of the first uses of GM/Ford JV transmission with a modern (for GM) 3.6L DOHC V6. It's only downfall is the antiquated OHV 3.5L entry engine.

 

The Caliber I believe is a vast improvement over the defunct Neon. It's an improvement in everyway in a hot segment, although the "hot" sales are a turn off since 38%+ are going to fleet sales.

 

Every other vehicle in their list of contenders is just slightly improved from the previous generations. And these awards hardly ever go to the uber-sedans like S-Class, XK8's, etc. unless there' something totally revolutionary in it's design, which is again...slightly improved from previous generations....The Lexus with it's unnecessary 8speed automatic, and auto-parellel parking function might get a nod or 2.

 

For the truck segment, I would say Ford might have a better chance there with the Edge and Mazda Cx-7. Both great entries into it's segments. I think the GMC Arcadia is also a good contender for what it has to offer in it's segment.

 

The Silverado might have a shot if you take into account of it's impact in the segment, but again, offers nothing revolutionary in it's segment and it's mostly warmed over for the most part. Some with numerous other entries like CR-V's, down to Wranglers.

 

Doubt the FJ Cruiser would win, other than it's just very different if some judges go for that (which doesn't usually), but it's really nothing special, and the Escape Hybrid won last year, so the Saturn Vue Greeny would be redundant.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Before you knock that GM Entry 3.5L V6, remember this. On regular gas, it makes more HP and torque than the much more advanced duratec 30 in the fusion. It weighs in at 50 or more pounds less than the duratec, can fit in smaller spots than the duratec, and gets better highway mpg than the duratec. Remember, for the 06-07 model year, the 3.5L got an upgrade. It now has VCT. Being a single cam in block design, this works both the intake and exhaust valves. ITs got a broad torque curve and decent manners from what I've read.

 

So, don't spit on the 3.5L too quickly. ITs got a lot that Ford wishes they had in the duratec 30 right now. It would have been perfect for the D3 cars as its torque is still in the allowable range for the CVT, and its HP number is also good.

[ANTAUS]

I would hope with so many years around, they would refine it a bit. Unfortunately last time I was in one with the 3.5L, it sounded like farm machinery, crude and not very refined, luckily the rest of the vehicle was insulated enough to sort of mask it. And not much of a rever, anything over 3000RPM and it sounded as if it were out of breath gasping for a shift.

 

Majority of the drivers won't care for the most part, but for this award, they've usually looked for something a bit more sophisticated.

 

But considering the other contenders, I would this even with this they would still have a better chance.

[waymondospiff]

My guesses:

 

COY Finalists-

Caliber, Fit, XK...Fit wins

 

TOY Finalists-

Q7 or RDX (one of the luxury SUVs), Silverado, Edge...probably Silverado, maybe Edge wins

 

The NAIAS award is usually meaningless. The track record for their choices isn't great, sometimes choosing losers like Ridgeline & Thunderbird. And they've basically chosen every new car & truck from the past year to be up for the award. I've never been all that excited by the NAIAS awards, I think the awards from individual publications or organizations are better because the organization actually has a stake in their choice. Not so with polling unaffiliated journalists.

 

It'd still be nice for an Edge win however.

 

Scott

[03 LS]

Why isn't MKZ even a canidate? If Mark LT and Ram Mega Cab can (last year), so can MKZ.

[pcsario]

This is the first time the Camry will truly deserve to be COTY, they really did a great job this gen.

 

Truck of the year will be either the new Silverado or the Tahoe, duh.

[RichardJensen]

This is the first time the Camry will truly deserve to be COTY, they really did a great job this gen.

 

Truck of the year will be either the new Silverado or the Tahoe, duh.

Haha.

 

Camry, complete with smaller trunk, smaller back seat, and crap-job front and rear ends.

 

Yeah. Sure does deserve to be COTY.

 

Let's ignore the fact that this wheezy example of state of the art 1992 chassis construction has been stretched and widened to within an inch of its life.

 

It's all new guys! Except for the stuff you can't see.

Edited September 21, 2006 by RichardJensen

[DCK]

Why isn't MKZ even a canidate? If Mark LT and Ram Mega Cab can (last year), so can MKZ.

And the point would be? It's not like it has a chance of winning.

[pcsario]

Haha.

 

Camry, complete with smaller trunk, smaller back seat, and crap-job front and rear ends.

 

Yeah. Sure does deserve to be COTY.

 

Let's ignore the fact that this wheezy example of state of the art 1992 chassis construction has been stretched and widened to within an inch of its life.

 

It's all new guys! Except for the stuff you can't see.

 

It's still better than the Fusion, which couldn't even beat an almost half a decade old Honda.

[RichardJensen]

It's still better than the Fusion, which couldn't even beat an almost half a decade old Honda.

better how?

 

If you're referring to the Edmunds review, where the Fusion finished well ahead of the '06 Camry, you may be interested to know that the '07 Camry does little to improve on the "Welcome to 1966" ride and handling of the '06 Camry.

 

Note this review of the almost identical Lexus ES

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Re...183.A10318.html

 

"Not really a car to go attacking canyon roads, then, but even while cruising along at a more leisurely pace I still found the ES a little wanting. The MacPherson-strut front and rear suspensions are a little too soft for their own good, with too much roll and wallow for even the gentlest of country roads, and while the ride quality on the highway is superb the steering doesn't offer enough on-center feel, which means you're constantly making minor adjustments to keep it on track. I've long been of the opinion that sportier cars are a lot less tiring to drive at normal speeds because they're so easy to place and keep on course. The ES might be quiet, refined, and extremely cosseting, but a smidge more feel would actually make it even more relaxing to drive."

 

Or the direct comparison:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../605030329/1149

 

"Considering the $1,384 price difference between our two test vehicles, the Fusion SLE seemed to offer so much more than the Camry LE, in terms of engine size and performance, as well as creature comforts and -- most surprising of all -- assembly quality."

 

Not that I'd ever quote a Lienert & Lienert review without finding some corroboration somewhere.

[pcsario]

Only two reviews, out of how many comparisons so far (from far more relevant sources) stating the complete opposite?

 

And nothing about the brand new Fusion losing almost everywhere against the old 'n rusty Accord too...

 

BTW, seems odd you would use TCC reviews to help your case, considering their stance on other products from the competition.

 

They often seem to root for "the little guy that people like to dismiss". :P

Edited September 21, 2006 by pcsario

[DCK]

The Fusion is a very good vehicle, very good from Ford.

 

But in this very competitive market its merely competitive, not close to being class leading. They have the advantage with a lower price point but the fusion is not better than the camry and definately not better then the agin accord. Instead of low ball pricing it if Ford designed the vehicle initially to compete at a price comparible to the competition, then maybe the fusion would have been so much more. But this goes into playing the dreaded could of would of should of game. I am just saying Ford needs to design and create vehicles without the expectation of low ball pricing them. Instead they build vehicle expecting to discount them and price them low and that hurts the vehicles quality and reputation. The Edge seems to be a move in the right direction with ford designer and building a vehicle without the intent of low pricing and discounting.

[RichardJensen]

Only two reviews, out of how many comparisons so far (from far more relevant sources) stating the complete opposite?

Actually, the Lienert '06 Fusion vs. '07 Camry is the only direct comparison published.

 

You can, of course, consider me to be uninformed, and an exaggerator of the truth.

 

But you'll just be wasting your time trying to find other comparison pieces.

 

Instead of low ball pricing it if Ford designed the vehicle initially to compete at a price comparible to the competition, then maybe the fusion would have been so much more.

The Fusion could be 100 million billion times better than it is now, and Ford would not be selling that many more of them, and the average transaction price wouldn't be much higher.

 

Ford committed to building the Fusion at only one plant, and that commitment is not going to change.

Edited September 21, 2006 by RichardJensen

[bystander]

Haha.

 

Camry, complete with smaller trunk, smaller back seat, and crap-job front and rear ends.

 

Yeah. Sure does deserve to be COTY.

 

Let's ignore the fact that this wheezy example of state of the art 1992 chassis construction has been stretched and widened to within an inch of its life.

 

It's all new guys! Except for the stuff you can't see.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and all, but there are about 400,000 paying customers who evidently disagree with your dismal view of the Camry.

 

Rather than nitpick the lineage of the Camry, Ford would do well to learn from Toyota's success on what works.

[pcsario]

You're entitled to your opinion and all, but there are about 400,000 paying customers who evidently disagree with your dismal view of the Camry.

 

Rather than nitpick the lineage of the Camry, Ford would do well to learn from Toyota's success on what works.

You're talking to our resident double-standard-happy, 24/7 Ford PR bot. :P

[matthewq4b]

You're entitled to your opinion and all, but there are about 400,000 paying customers who evidently disagree with your dismal view of the Camry.

 

Rather than nitpick the lineage of the Camry, Ford would do well to learn from Toyota's success on what works.

 

 

On the Flip side of that, not long ago there were 400k Taurus buyers that thought it was the best in the world too and we know how that turned out. Sales numbers do not make a vehical good or bad. And stating comments to the such is just silly.

 

Personally I think the the new Camry is seriuosly lacking, and it will only be a matter of time befor the consumer catches on to this just as they did with the Taurus.

 

Matthew

[marc-o]

On the Flip side of that, not long ago there were 400k Taurus buyers that thought it was the best in the world too and we know how that turned out. Sales numbers do not make a vehical good or bad. And stating comments to the such is just silly.

 

Personally I think the the new Camry is seriuosly lacking, and it will only be a matter of time befor the consumer catches on to this just as they did with the Taurus.

 

Matthew

 

Oh come on... when the Taurus was a top seller it was because it really was a top car. Rarely if ever is a car a great seller if it's uncompetitive.

 

Point is the Camry is still the yardstick for midsize sedans, which the Taurus hasn't been for some time and the Fusion is still aspiring to be.

Edited September 22, 2006 by marc-o

[bystander]

On the Flip side of that, not long ago there were 400k Taurus buyers that thought it was the best in the world too and we know how that turned out. Sales numbers do not make a vehical good or bad. And stating comments to the such is just silly.

 

 

The point I was making is that while we as car enthusiast may chuckle about what type of suspension underpins the Camry or how old it is, Toyota has proven that it knows what levers to pull to satisfy an awful lot of customers. And that is, at the end of the day, one of the most important things a major automaker needs to do.

Edited September 22, 2006 by bystander

[RichardJensen]

the Fusion is still aspiring to be.

The Fusion is 'aspiring' to profitably utilize Hermosillo.

 

Nothing else matters.

 

Period.

 

As far as the Camry not deserving the COTY award, I'm sorry, but I expect a car to have substantially revised underpinnings in order to qualify for "COTY"--not just the car equivalent of an extreme makeover. The Camry rides on a platform that has not been substantially revised in 14 years. Each succeeding model gets a little longer, and each succeeding model gets a bigger C pillar to brace the thing.

 

It's a piece of crap, engineering wise.

 

Doesn't mean it won't sell. Doesn't mean that 360k or so people won't buy one.

 

But, seriously folks, it is no engineering marvel.

 

And its chassis dynamics, steering, and ride and handling are NOT to be imitated.

[Edgey]

Ford's next best hope will be the Edge since it's the only vehicle that seems to meet the judging criteria.

 

Cars that typically win these awards have not be big hits for the companies, at least not for long. I remember when the Probe, LS, and Focus won all of those awards but none of them turned into success stories. Awards by journalists matter as much as the opinion of the journalists...they are out of step with most consumers who don't have an esoteric view of the business.

 

The 500, Fusion, Freestyle etc... were not designed to win awards, they were designed to offer sedan customers everything they've come to expect in the competition but more affordably. If you try to please journalists, it's easy to forget that your customers are looking for something entirely different.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Edgey

[Noah Harbinger]

You're entitled to your opinion and all, but there are about 400,000 paying customers who evidently disagree with your dismal view of the Camry.

 

Rather than nitpick the lineage of the Camry, Ford would do well to learn from Toyota's success on what works.

 

The #1 reason so many people buy a Camry is they expect it to run forever. Every Camry or Accord owner I know, that is the first and foremost reason they cite: "I'll be driving this for 250,000 miles". The convenience features are nice, the ride is nice, etc., but it all comes down, time and time again, to reliability. You can't build that reputation, except over a long period of satisfied customers. So it doesn't matter that the Fusion has never had a recall (compared to, I believe, a couple for the new Camry in a shorter period of time).

 

But yeah, other than "reputation for reliability", I can't see any major gaps between midsized sedans that don't boil down to some egotistical reviewer trying to pick nits that don't matter to most people. It's at least nice that Ford can finally put out an offering that stands head-and-shoulders with that undifferentiatable pack.

[ANTAUS]

Ironically those that I know with Camrys dumped them after 100K when the car was giving them more hassles than what it was worth since repair/replace was more expensive...

[old_fairmont_wagon]

What I can say about the new Camry vs. the Fusion is based on passenger time that I've had in a Fusion SE 4 cylinder low mileage rental vs my father in law's brand new Camry XLE V6. The Camry is plus on the inside in a way that the Fusion was utilitarian but clean. The ride on the Fusion was a bit stiff, almost go-kart like whereas the camry was just smooth, and that was on the pothole ridden undulating beat to hell streets that we have around here.

 

Granted, these were two completely different trim levels, comparing middle of the road rental vs top of the line loaded, but, the basics won't change. The Camry was a much nicer vehicle to be a passenger in. Now, I want driving impressions that I haven't had the chance to get yet.