Bullitt6283 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) I have a 2016 Jayco Class-C motorhome built on the E450 cutaway chassis with the V10 motor. I've been chasing a noise for a long time, as have been many other 2011-2019 E450 (cutaway) motorhome owners with the V10 motor. It sounds like spark knock, but better fuel does not help at all. There is a history of owners taking their vehicles into the dealer for a diagnosis, but the problem remains unresolved even after belt/pulley/tensioner replacement. One of the owners on the Jayco website found the issue. VIDEO: https://youtu.be/Oa6cr2dFkPE --> As it turns out, there is serpentine belt instability on these motors. <-- Further, it was discovered that prior to 1999 there used to be an additional idler pulley mounted between the PS pump and alternator, the area where the belt is fluttering. The threaded mounting boss still exists. Why was this pulley deleted??? Can I safely put one back on??? Edited January 6, 2021 by Bullitt6283 corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I would say order the pulley and install it....should help with your issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt6283 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, twintornados said: I would say order the pulley and install it....should help with your issue. That is my intention. I am wondering, however, if there could be a reason why the pulley was omitted on recent motors. Was there an issue, or was it purely a cost-reduction. . Edited January 5, 2021 by Bullitt6283 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidyupgo Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Following Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt6283 Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 In order to gain engineering insight into the belt noise and 'omitted pulley' subject, I contacted Ford Help and the Ford Performance Techline. I also contacted the Motorhome Customer Assistance Center. None of these sources could help me. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Bullitt6283 said: In order to gain engineering insight into the belt noise and 'omitted pulley' subject, I contacted Ford Help and the Ford Performance Techline. I also contacted the Motorhome Customer Assistance Center. None of these sources could help me. Who needs engineering insight when you have the proof you need under your hood? Put the pulley in and and let us know how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt6283 Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, twintornados said: Who needs engineering insight when you have the proof you need under your hood? .......... Glad you asked... 1. The UBS (unstable belt syndrome) has evidently existed undiscovered for some time. The UBS noise sounds a lot like spark knock and most owners thought that is what it was. Many motorhome owners have tried to diagnose the UBS noise issue themselves, or have taken their RVs to Ford Service who were unable to solve the real root cause. These motorhome owners are a conservative bunch, and would prefer a formal pronouncement from Ford that adding the idler pulley is an appropriate course of action. 2. I play with a highly modified Ford Mustang Bullitt, and I am very familiar with the "Law of Unintended Consequences". This Law becomes troublesome when a car is modified for a good reason, but the modification causes an unforeseen issue which can be worse than the original problem. So, for my motorhome, which I hope continues to be very reliable, I am concerned that adding the idler pulley may cause another problem. After all, the pulley had previously existed, and then it was removed. Why?? Cheers, Ron . Edited January 7, 2021 by Bullitt6283 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 18 hours ago, Bullitt6283 said: I am concerned that adding the idler pulley may cause another problem. After all, the pulley had previously existed, and then it was removed. Why?? The pulley in question is under $10 at any parts store, the reason why is obvious..."cost of part + amount of engines produced" is a number that can be eliminated with little to no concern from the average consumer. You are not average. My guess is, you will not get a satisfactory answer from them so go down to the parts store, drop a little coin, put it on and let us know how it all turned out. Welcome to "Hot Rod 101". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt6283 Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, twintornados said: ...Welcome to "Hot Rod 101". I did a bit more investigation.... According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s, to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up. This may help explain why the second idler pulley disappeared in about the same time frame. Edited January 8, 2021 by Bullitt6283 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bullitt6283 said: I did a bit more investigation.... According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s, to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up. This may help explain why the second idler pulley disappeared in about the same time frame. Since the idler pulley in question rides on the top of the belt and not on the ribbed side, it should be just fine. Ford going from an 8-rib to 6-rib design proves my point, saving $$$. You may also see that the 5.4L Triton probably uses the same belt too, further cutting costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidyupgo Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Bullitt6283, I am surprised more people aren't discussing this. Maybe on a different forum? Anyway, 2016 6.8 in a Class C with 41k miles. It's been making this noise since new (4 years) at 2100 rpm. Installed the driver's side idler today. Pulled the air filter for access and easily deflected the belt enough to install. I did not loosen or replace the belt. Inspected it and it looked fine. Leaving tomorrow for a 750 mile trip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidyupgo Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just to follow up. Rattle noise at 2100 rpm is gone. No problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 8 hours ago, Gidyupgo said: Just to follow up. Rattle noise at 2100 rpm is gone. No problems. Nice...glad you "got" it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt6283 Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Gidyupgo said: Just to follow up. Rattle noise at 2100 rpm is gone. No problems. Great News Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidyupgo Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Again, as follow-up. 9000 miles since the idler was added on the driver side. No noise and no other issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubcap Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Need the part number for the bolt that holds it on. I assume just order the pulley for a pre 99? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt6283 Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Hubcap said: Need the part number for the bolt that holds it on. I assume just order the pulley for a pre 99? Thanks, . Does your engine have a 6-rib belt or a 8-rib belt? Somewhere around the 1999 timeframe there was a change. Later models have the 6 rib belt. My vehicle is a 2016 Ford E450 chassis and the V10 gas motor and the 6 rib serpentine belt. The bolt I used is p/n N808102 S437 Pulley is (Motorcraft YS-385) #1L2Z-8678-AD. . Edited November 4, 2021 by Bullitt6283 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromeronzo Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 I guess I'm a little late getting here, but I'm glade that I found this forum. Thanks to all...I just joined this conversation, and do I have a little story that will really fire you up. I have a 2015 E-450 Class C Winnie..6.8L V-10(I love it with the SCT upgrade)...with 48,000 miles. Great running motor home. Just recently started having this same noise 500 miles ago, and rather than sit for days to get it repaired, I soldiered ahead and drove home. Took it to my local Ford Dealership...spoke to the service writer(very helpful) and let him take it from there. Now, I have been working on cars since I was eleven. I know the front from the rear, I also have 2 vws, and can pretty much do all of my own maintenance. In fact, I earned a living from bending wrenches for quite awhile(just do not like all of the electronics); but, when I heard after paying $285.00 for an RV diagnosis, I was stunned. What they found out is that I had a noisy valve cover! Yep, those darn valve covers can sure get noisy. Whatcha goin' to do. Replace the valve cover. Apparently, the oil filler opening came loose? from the inside of the cover--spot welded I guess...could not really tell from the diagram presented to me. So while they did open-heart surgery, I had the dealership replace the serpentine belt. So here we are...$1200.00 later(all but $478 paid for by Good Sam extended warranty), and I'm not sure if the sound has dissipated. From the Ford dealer to the RV shop for some needed maintenance, and when I pick it up from there, I'll give it a good going over--noise and missing pulley. It sounds like the FIX in this forum could and should make me smile...thanks again...I'll update later in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromeronzo Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Thanks to Bullit6283---ordered my parts today--double checked on your numbers---spot on. Will receive them on Monday...go in on Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDaddyBRT Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 We have a 2017 V10 powered RV, Fleetwood Jamboree 31U. Love the RV but the belt noise has been driving us crazy. The sweet spot in RPM is about 2100 up to 2500 and of course, 2100 is where the noise starts including every upshift to get to cruising speed. We put the idler wheel on and just like magic, the noise is completely gone! After several years of listening to that crap, I still anticipate hearing it but it is just psychosomatic it doesn't exist in the real world anymore LOL. If you are having these issues with noise driving you batty, put the idler wheel on and enjoy your new found peace and quiet. Have a great day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchdoc Canada Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 1/26/2021 at 7:53 PM, Gidyupgo said: Bullitt6283, I am surprised more people aren't discussing this. Maybe on a different forum? Anyway, 2016 6.8 in a Class C with 41k miles. It's been making this noise since new (4 years) at 2100 rpm. Installed the driver's side idler today. Pulled the air filter for access and easily deflected the belt enough to install. I did not loosen or replace the belt. Inspected it and it looked fine. Leaving tomorrow for a 750 mile trip. Thanks so much. Now my issue Ford parts in Canada shows no bolt #id to hold the pulley on . I gave them that # and nothing popped up ??? any other code that would help parts dept? oh, tried Lordco parts in Canada they have lots of these pulleys , but no bolt to hold it on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt6283 Posted October 24, 2023 Author Share Posted October 24, 2023 A quick online search for N808102-S437 shows several sources for this bolt. Here's one: https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-idler-pulley-bolt-n808102s437 . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchdoc Canada Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 On 1/26/2021 at 7:53 PM, Gidyupgo said: Bullitt6283, I am surprised more people aren't discussing this. Maybe on a different forum? Anyway, 2016 6.8 in a Class C with 41k miles. It's been making this noise since new (4 years) at 2100 rpm. Installed the driver's side idler today. Pulled the air filter for access and easily deflected the belt enough to install. I did not loosen or replace the belt. Inspected it and it looked fine. Leaving tomorrow for a 750 mile trip. Thanks so much. Now my issue Ford parts in Canada shows no bolt #id to hold the pulley on . I gave them that # and nothing popped up ??? any other code that would help parts dept? oh, tried Lordco parts in Canada they have lots of these pulleys , but no bolt to hold it on . Listen to this.CRAZY Ford will not allow parts shipped to Canada from USA as tried that web site ! Frustrating; a 6 $ bolt and can’t get it in Canada . Found a USA parts site but want $50 shipping , Does it ever end ? Any Canadian V10 Ford part buyers in this forum want to chirp in ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt6283 Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 If I recall correctly, the idler pulley on the passenger side of the block is the same pulley number and held on with the same bolt. Perhaps a trip to a salvage yard would solve the bolt problem.... .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchdoc Canada Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 On 10/26/2023 at 1:25 PM, Bullitt6283 said: If I recall correctly, the idler pulley on the passenger side of the block is the same pulley number and held on with the same bolt. Perhaps a trip to a salvage yard would solve the bolt problem.... .. Thanks , great idea. Maybe a Id# for Ford on that pulley bolt ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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