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Bullitt6283

E-450 with V10 serpentine belt instability and noise

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Posted (edited)

I have a 2016 Jayco Class-C motorhome built on the E450 cutaway chassis with the V10 motor.

I've been chasing a noise for a long time, as have been many other 2011-2019 E450 (cutaway) motorhome owners with the V10 motor. It sounds like spark knock, but better fuel does not help at all. There is a history of owners taking their vehicles into the dealer for a diagnosis, but the problem remains unresolved even after belt/pulley/tensioner replacement.

One of the owners on the Jayco website found the issue.

 

VIDEO:  https://youtu.be/Oa6cr2dFkPE

 

--> As it turns out, there is serpentine belt instability on these motors. <--

Further, it was discovered that prior to 1999 there used to be an additional idler pulley mounted between the PS pump and alternator, the area where the belt is fluttering.

The threaded mounting boss still exists.

Why was this pulley deleted???

Can I safely put one back on???

 

 

pulleymount2000.JPG

Belt.JPG

Ford drawing 2.jpg

1999 V10 pulley.jpg

2000 diagram.JPG

1999 F53 belt routing.JPG

pulley mount.JPG

Edited by Bullitt6283
corrected

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I would say order the pulley and install it....should help with your issue.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, twintornados said:

I would say order the pulley and install it....should help with your issue.

 

That is my intention.

I am wondering, however, if there could be a reason why the pulley was omitted on recent motors.

Was there an issue, or was it purely a cost-reduction.

 

.

Edited by Bullitt6283

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In order to gain engineering insight into the belt noise and  'omitted pulley' subject, I contacted Ford Help  and the Ford Performance Techline. I also contacted the Motorhome Customer Assistance Center

None of these sources could help me.

 

.

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4 hours ago, Bullitt6283 said:

In order to gain engineering insight into the belt noise and  'omitted pulley' subject, I contacted Ford Help  and the Ford Performance Techline. I also contacted the Motorhome Customer Assistance Center

None of these sources could help me.

 

Who needs engineering insight when you have the proof you need under your hood? Put the pulley in and and let us know how it works.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Who needs engineering insight when you have the proof you need under your hood? ..........

 

Glad you asked...

1. The UBS (unstable belt syndrome) has evidently existed undiscovered for some time. The UBS noise sounds a lot like spark knock and most owners thought that is what it was. Many motorhome owners have tried to diagnose the UBS noise issue themselves, or have taken their RVs to Ford Service who were unable to solve the real root cause. These motorhome owners are a conservative bunch, and would prefer a formal pronouncement from Ford that adding the idler pulley is an appropriate course of action.

2.  I play with a highly modified Ford Mustang Bullitt, and I am very familiar with the "Law of Unintended Consequences".  This Law becomes troublesome when a car is modified for a good reason, but the modification causes an unforeseen issue which can be worse than the original problem. So, for my motorhome, which I hope continues to be very reliable, I am concerned that adding the idler pulley may cause another problem. After all, the pulley had previously existed, and then it was removed. Why??

 

Cheers,

Ron

.

Edited by Bullitt6283

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18 hours ago, Bullitt6283 said:

I am concerned that adding the idler pulley may cause another problem. After all, the pulley had previously existed, and then it was removed. Why??

 

The pulley in question is under $10 at any parts store, the reason why is obvious..."cost of part + amount of engines produced" is a number that can be eliminated with little to no concern from the average consumer. You are not average. My guess is, you will not get a satisfactory answer from them so go down to the parts store, drop a little coin, put it on and let us know how it all turned out. Welcome to "Hot Rod 101".

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

...Welcome to "Hot Rod 101".

 

I did a bit more investigation....

According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s, to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up.
This may help explain why the second idler pulley disappeared in about the same time frame.

 

 

Edited by Bullitt6283

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3 minutes ago, Bullitt6283 said:

I did a bit more investigation....

According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s, to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up.
This may help explain why the second idler pulley disappeared in about the same time frame.

 

Since the idler pulley in question rides on the top of the belt and not on the ribbed side, it should be just fine. Ford going from an 8-rib to 6-rib design proves my point, saving $$$. You may also see that the 5.4L Triton probably uses the same belt too, further cutting costs.

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