4 day 10 hour workweek who really benefits?

[mynameisearl]

Workers. Company. Both?

[chkchka]

In my opinion, it benefits both, except for the person that counts on overtime. Operating a plant on 5 or 6 days is cheaper, and I wouldn't mind having three day weekends every week. More time with the family, and one less day to pay child care and gas.

 

It hurts maintenance a bit since most will probably only get 40 hrs. Not everyone wants a 3 day weekend either. I would rather them cut OT then cut jobs though.

[Ktp1989]

It hurts maintenance a bit since most will probably only get 40 hrs. Not everyone wants a 3 day weekend either. I would rather them cut OT then cut jobs though.

Bottom line is you are giving away benefits won by your sisters and brothers in regards to o.t. pay after 8 hours. Let's just give it all away. The company tells you that you get more time with your families, but they save about 10 million per plant doing this. (Ktp as an example). Here they set up special shifts and only pay you 1 1/4 on the weekends. Our brothers and sisters struck, died, and lost jobs for these benefits and now we give them away like candy because "It's less for daycare and gas money on 4 days a week". LOL

[jm2607]

Bottom line is you are giving away benefits won by your sisters and brothers in regards to o.t. pay after 8 hours. Let's just give it all away. The company tells you that you get more time with your families, but they save about 10 million per plant doing this. (Ktp as an example). Here they set up special shifts and only pay you 1 1/4 on the weekends. Our brothers and sisters struck, died, and lost jobs for these benefits and now we give them away like candy because "It's less for daycare and gas money on 4 days a week". LOL

That is so true, and once given away--you'll never get it back.

[CAPDude]

My #1 priority in my life is my family. So spending three days a week with them instead of two is a dream come true. Helping the company save money and turn the ship around in any way would only benefit all of us. I do not need overtime to pay my bills 40hrs is perfectly fine with me.

 

 

Bottom line is you are giving away benefits won by your sisters and brothers in regards to o.t. pay after 8 hours. Let's just give it all away. The company tells you that you get more time with your families, but they save about 10 million per plant doing this. (Ktp as an example). Here they set up special shifts and only pay you 1 1/4 on the weekends. Our brothers and sisters struck, died, and lost jobs for these benefits and now we give them away like candy because "It's less for daycare and gas money on 4 days a week". LOL

[unionj]

You do! You have a job!

[CAPDude]

Good point, I signed up for a buyout anyways so if it ever gets here I won't be around to vote. Just putting my own two cents in on the subject.

 

We all know that both company and union has to change to stay alive today, the question is how much change will we allow to happen? I came from a plant that closed, so I know the fear of giving in and then getting screwed over.

 

 

You do! You have a job!

[skye7]

what are the shifts? At KTP we used to work A-crew was Mon - thurs. B-crew was Tues night - Friday night. C-crew was Friday Saturday Day time Sunday Monday night time. So if you don't get any overtime what do you get, one extra day off. What is the shift premium for each shift?

[Calvin@LAP]

Bottom line is you are giving away benefits won by your sisters and brothers in regards to o.t. pay after 8 hours. Let's just give it all away. The company tells you that you get more time with your families, but they save about 10 million per plant doing this. (Ktp as an example). Here they set up special shifts and only pay you 1 1/4 on the weekends. Our brothers and sisters struck, died, and lost jobs for these benefits and now we give them away like candy because "It's less for daycare and gas money on 4 days a week". LOL

 

I don't understand it when people make statements like this. Back in the 80's things got bad and the UAW made concessions nationally and locally which included wage concessions. Some act like none of the old workers made any concessions and that is just inaccurate information. The guys who are retiring right now with a $35,000 bonus voted yes to concessions back in the early 80's. I wonder if they regret it now? Ask them. I have. They will tell you.

 

KTP1989 your plant (KTP) voted in the MOA (Modern Operating Agreement) several years ago to secure a new product, a third shift and major investment in your plant. Because of that your plant is very secure. Seems a little hypocritical for you to sit hear and criticize other plants for doing what your plant (KTP) did years ago.

[TCgrunt]

Workers. Company. Both?

We voted in the 4-10's at TCAP yrs ago...we were told that it would be an advantage for our plant's future...it saved the company money...and we still are closing.

4-10's has it's pro's and con's...I personally don't like it. I don't feel the body was made to do physical labor for 10 hrs a day...IMHO, if we gotta work it, we should get OT for it. Sure , having Fridays off is nice, but I find myself draggin' my butt all day from working 10 hrs. I personall feel I have more of a life on 5-8's.

Some people love it...some people don't. It was passed by a narrow margin both times it was voted on. (The initial vote, and then it was put up for a revote a couple of yrs ago to see if we wanted to go back to 5-8's.)

[Kentucky250s]

We voted in the 4-10's at TCAP yrs ago...we were told that it would be an advantage for our plant's future...it saved the company money...and we still are closing.

4-10's has it's pro's and con's...I personally don't like it. I don't feel the body was made to do physical labor for 10 hrs a day...IMHO, if we gotta work it, we should get OT for it. Sure , having Fridays off is nice, but I find myself draggin' my butt all day from working 10 hrs. I personall feel I have more of a life on 5-8's.

Some people love it...some people don't. It was passed by a narrow margin both times it was voted on. (The initial vote, and then it was put up for a revote a couple of yrs ago to see if we wanted to go back to 5-8's.)

I agree with you ,doing a job in trim at KTP on the 4 10s was much harder on the body and mind but i have a job for now and not hurting on the 5 8s just my 2cents or 4 10s or 5 8s :blah: :blah: :blah:

[Hellcat_F6F]

Working 10 hours sucks, no doubt, but a 4 day week just flys by! You get an extra day to let your body recover, or further damage it, depending on your personal habits. I hope MTP goes to 4 10's soon..I have never been happy about working 5 8's,.....working an extra day, paying more for gas and child care, like Pioneer said, for no more money. Working 4 10's would save me a bundle.

[chkchka]

We have no choice right now but to give concessions. Ford is just waiting to make an example out of that plant that does not agree to a COA. We will get it back if/when Ford starts making money again.

Edited October 28, 2006 by chkchka

[Emigh]

We have no choice right now but to give concessions. Ford is just waiting to make an example out of that plant that does not agree to a COA. We will get it back if/when Ford starts making money again.

If we give back too many concessions, what will we have to negotiate for the 07 contract.People this is not the same car market that it was years ago. Look at the rating of best cars and SUVs, it is all foreign cars that are making the top 10. Toyota is already targeting the children of the 30 and up for the next generation of buyers. Ford Motor is struggling, I just hope that someone somewhere has the correct answer. :shrug:

[Ktp1989]

My #1 priority in my life is my family. So spending three days a week with them instead of two is a dream come true. Helping the company save money and turn the ship around in any way would only benefit all of us. I do not need overtime to pay my bills 40hrs is perfectly fine with me.

Guarentee hes a newbie with no time in and he didn't fight for anything. He was given everything. Chump

 

I agree with you ,doing a job in trim at KTP on the 4 10s was much harder on the body and mind but i have a job for now and not hurting on the 5 8s just my 2cents or 4 10s or 5 8s :blah: :blah: :blah:

Exactly. Everyone I have spoken to in production like the 5 eights way better than the 4 tens now that they are back on the 5 day work week. In maintence, we always work 5 eights so I'll take the words of a production worker over my own.

[Imawhosure]

I honestly understand the debate for or agin this, but we must look at the bigger picture.

 

If we are honest with ourselves, then we know that if Ford suspended paying everything to everyone.......including the retirees, they would turn a huge profit tommorrow.

 

So then, how about of if Ford tells everyone that it will deduct its research and development costs from the equation, gives us a number of dollars per unit it has to spend on labor, and WE decide to split it?

 

Noooooooooo, right!!!!!!! Cause not one person here would like the cut you would have to take.

 

So then, before we actually give dollars away, how about we give things that cost us nothing to get them closer to being able to balance the books?

 

Them making money is so much better for contract negotiations, then them losing money. Is that not logical? The closer they are even to a balanced sheet is better than losing oodles of dough.

 

Ford may have deep pockets, but nobody I know is in business just to lose money and supply jobs.

 

They have devised a way to save (supposedly) 10 million a plant by doing this while costing someone nothing............unless of course someone loses overtime.

 

Now then, for those who worry about losing your job, or worst case scenario, the company folding, you gonna hang your rearends out there to insure any group of people continues to get overtime?

 

In good conscience, how can anyone ask you to do such a thing?

[fatfender]

Bottom line is you are giving away benefits won by your sisters and brothers in regards to o.t. pay after 8 hours. Let's just give it all away. The company tells you that you get more time with your families, but they save about 10 million per plant doing this. (Ktp as an example). Here they set up special shifts and only pay you 1 1/4 on the weekends. Our brothers and sisters struck, died, and lost jobs for these benefits and now we give them away like candy because "It's less for daycare and gas money on 4 days a week". LOL

 

 

The 4-10's is just a small piece of the big puzzle. Once orders pick up, you can bet that will be shoved aside to get production. The bigger part of this puzzle is what goes along with this, the loss of many, many of our in plant jobs to outside contractors. I still can't comprehend the UAW just giving away all these jobs and not even kicking about it. It seems they aren't even putting up a fight. Our brothers and sisters who had their heads bashed, bodies beaten, and even died standing up for what is right, would roll in their graves if they saw what was about to go down in our plants soon.

 

The UAW is pushing hard to back the company on this COA. I disagree with the fellow who posted "just vote NO on it and see how fast they make an example of your plant and close it." We should all stand up and not be intimidated by the company or the UAW and vote NO on it. Are they going to close all of us? I doubt it. Chances are they already know whos going and whos staying. By holding off on announcing all closures they use it to their advantage.

 

I firmly believe that we can solve our problems, build our business back up, and keep our jobs in house. The only thing is is that the UAW is jumping to fast to give up to much. Once it's gone it's gone. In the early 80's times were just as bad as now if not worse. The union stood behind us, didn't give the farm away, but worked with the company and the members and we came out of it for the better. Of course those lessons were lost. We are being intimidated into believing that by turning down a COA we are washed up. This is all happening just to fast. I wouldn't be surprised if some union officials and company people had their fingers in one of these little outside companies that wants to come in and do our work.

 

It's to bad we have no recourse in this. Our leadership doesn't have to answer to us since we can't vote them out of office. Maybe some day that will change. Stand up to them and say NO. There are other ways. Until then we are just sheep being led to slaughter. Baaaaaaa.

[CAPDude]

So now I'm a chump for expressing my opinion lol. Very mature buddy. I would like to hope that the people on here are all focused on the same thing, and this is a true compassion for their job. People who are deadbeats do not take the time to post on here let alone read anything.

 

However, I think it's very important to scroll back up and read Calvin's post about your own plant.

 

It is true I only have 7 years in but I do have many family members who have retired from Ford. Like I mentioned I am leaving, and only wish Ford turns this thing around and everybody that wants a job will have a job.

 

I don't know how many comapnies can lose almost 6 billion in a quarter and continue to survive unless old practices from Ford and the UAW are modified.

 

Guarentee hes a newbie with no time in and he didn't fight for anything. He was given everything. Chump

 

Exactly. Everyone I have spoken to in production like the 5 eights way better than the 4 tens now that they are back on the 5 day work week. In maintence, we always work 5 eights so I'll take the words of a production worker over my own.

Edited October 28, 2006 by CAPDude

[fmccap]

The only thing that comes to mind is that when the company was doing great in the mid to late 90's the union was taking more benefits. Now it's the other way around and nobody wants to give up anything. It's a two way street. They made bad decisions (poor designing) we made bad decisions (protecting deadbeats). They need to design better cars, we need to give them the best workforce, and over time we will all be happy.

[Imawhosure]

CapDude, right on!

 

It is about everyone protecting their feathernest, not about the majority of people who are working.

 

Nobody else wants to come up with a way to save 10 mill a plant that costs nobody a thing, they just wanna create effects of the cause of going to 4 10s. Where is their proof? Just cause they say it is so, doesn't mean it is, and are they creating the effect of the cause because they do not like it for another reason?

 

Seen it to many times in 30yrs------------->a small group doesn't like something because it hurts them, so they create phoney disasters if something is implemented so you get scared to death. They then laugh all the way to the bank cause they pulled another one over on "so called" dumb line workers.

 

Not this time!!!!!!!

 

To many people are finally wisening up to the game, and those who aren't, rest assured the rest of us will inform them!

[Calvin@LAP]

CapDude, right on!

 

It is about everyone protecting their feathernest, not about the majority of people who are working.

 

Nobody else wants to come up with a way to save 10 mill a plant that costs nobody a thing, they just wanna create effects of the cause of going to 4 10s. Where is their proof? Just cause they say it is so, doesn't mean it is, and are they creating the effect of the cause because they do not like it for another reason?

 

Seen it to many times in 30yrs------------->a small group doesn't like something because it hurts them, so they create phoney disasters if something is implemented so you get scared to death. They then laugh all the way to the bank cause they pulled another one over on "so called" dumb line workers.

 

Not this time!!!!!!!

 

To many people are finally wisening up to the game, and those who aren't, rest assured the rest of us will inform them!

 

 

Very true...do not be misled.

[markfnc]

Very true...do not be misled.

 

I worked 4 10's for 3 years, and loved it. At this point the union needs to be looking at any way to make the company more profitable.

[chkchka]

The 4-10's is just a small piece of the big puzzle. Once orders pick up, you can bet that will be shoved aside to get production. The bigger part of this puzzle is what goes along with this, the loss of many, many of our in plant jobs to outside contractors. I still can't comprehend the UAW just giving away all these jobs and not even kicking about it. It seems they aren't even putting up a fight. Our brothers and sisters who had their heads bashed, bodies beaten, and even died standing up for what is right, would roll in their graves if they saw what was about to go down in our plants soon.

 

The UAW is pushing hard to back the company on this COA. I disagree with the fellow who posted "just vote NO on it and see how fast they make an example of your plant and close it." We should all stand up and not be intimidated by the company or the UAW and vote NO on it. Are they going to close all of us? I doubt it. Chances are they already know whos going and whos staying. By holding off on announcing all closures they use it to their advantage.

 

I firmly believe that we can solve our problems, build our business back up, and keep our jobs in house. The only thing is is that the UAW is jumping to fast to give up to much. Once it's gone it's gone. In the early 80's times were just as bad as now if not worse. The union stood behind us, didn't give the farm away, but worked with the company and the members and we came out of it for the better. Of course those lessons were lost. We are being intimidated into believing that by turning down a COA we are washed up. This is all happening just to fast. I wouldn't be surprised if some union officials and company people had their fingers in one of these little outside companies that wants to come in and do our work.

 

It's to bad we have no recourse in this. Our leadership doesn't have to answer to us since we can't vote them out of office. Maybe some day that will change. Stand up to them and say NO. There are other ways. Until then we are just sheep being led to slaughter. Baaaaaaa.

 

The international screwed us all when the let the plants negotiate the COA's seperately from each other. Then local 600 screwed us by agreeing to it first, even though it's probably the last plant to close. We really missed a chance to send Ford a message to not try the COA's.

[big blue fury]

Guarentee hes a newbie with no time in and he didn't fight for anything. He was given everything. Chump

Exactly. Everyone I have spoken to in production like the 5 eights way better than the 4 tens now that they are back on the 5 day work week. In maintence, we always work 5 eights so I'll take the words of a production worker over my own.

 

Believe it or not, some people are family oriented. I am sure you will fight for everything when it comes to maintence. Hell, I think we would all work what ever amount of hours if we could sit on our ass and suck up every bit of triple time, double time there is. I know this is not true for SOME maintence guys, but I'd say it holds up. I watch you guys act like you're so pissed off to have to come out and do something simple. On top of it, you usually half ass it. You want to fight for something then fight for the things that will save this company and jobs.

 

Get rid of the sorry ass people.

 

Fix the ice machine in 4 hrs. not 2 days.

 

Adjust and be prepared cause change is coming and talking about the past doesn't matter

 

Don't knock the guy who loves something else besides himself. I am all for more time off. The things I have didn't come from Ford and were self made. I listen you guys run your mouths and act so arrogant because you are in maintence. I don't give a shit at the end of the day I have something more important than Ford and you. Go ahead, tell everyone how you fight for the cause and how important you are. Meanwhile, I'll sit here with my hoist broke waiting on a pipefitter since the electrician can't push the hose back in. It's not his job. Will someone please open the shop.

[chkchka]

Believe it or not, some people are family oriented. I am sure you will fight for everything when it comes to maintence. Hell, I think we would all work what ever amount of hours if we could sit on our ass and suck up every bit of triple time, double time there is. I know this is not true for SOME maintence guys, but I'd say it holds up. I watch you guys act like you're so pissed off to have to come out and do something simple. On top of it, you usually half ass it. You want to fight for something then fight for the things that will save this company and jobs.

 

Get rid of the sorry ass people.

 

Fix the ice machine in 4 hrs. not 2 days.

 

Adjust and be prepared cause change is coming and talking about the past doesn't matter

 

Don't knock the guy who loves something else besides himself. I am all for more time off. The things I have didn't come from Ford and were self made. I listen you guys run your mouths and act so arrogant because you are in maintence. I don't give a shit at the end of the day I have something more important than Ford and you. Go ahead, tell everyone how you fight for the cause and how important you are. Meanwhile, I'll sit here with my hoist broke waiting on a pipefitter since the electrician can't push the hose back in. It's not his job. Will someone please open the shop.

 

Yeah some of the production workers don't understand why an electrician can't do a PF job or vice versa but there are reasons for lines of demarcation. How would you like to be sent home at 8 hours and have maintenance do YOUR job so they don't have to pay you OT. A little different now eh? We all need to help each other save our jobs, even if it means being a pain in the ass. Someone in the past had to suffer for these jobs and if we let them go we'll never get them back.