NEW FORD S-MAX TO BE PRODUCED AND SOLD IN CHINA

[Biker16]

And again, this has gone to stupid places it didn't need to go.

 

It's a desirable vehicle made by Ford that could possibly be of use here, where the company is lambasted for aging and/or unoriginal product.

 

Just that. Just there. Don't go into business cases, points of production blather, or anything else. THAT'S NOT THE JOB OF ANYONE HERE.

 

(Good thing too, the way that talk gets almost as vicious as political crap)

 

My point is simply that it may be worth consideration. It SHOULD be added to the car show collection, and Ford's representatives would be able to see Middle America's reaction firsthand. If that led to anything, so much the better...but getting it in front of the crowd at NAIAS would be the first step.

 

Keep it simple. It might be a global success, so show it globally and test the waters. Production ramp-up and everything else come AFTER easily-attained public opinion.

 

Some o' you guys sure work hard to put the "anal" into "overanalyzed".

:happy feet:

[Biker16]

Ford sells about 3 million vehicles a year in the U.S. Of those 3M vehicles, about 2.5 million are Ford brand. Of that 2.5 million, about 75% are retail, giving you a total of about 1,875,000 Ford retail buyers every year.

 

And of those nearly 2 million retail buyers, Ford's core is certainly not reflected in this board. Do not confuse Ford 'loyalists' with Ford's core customers. An analogous (and politically neutral) situation would be the Democrats and the extreme left, or the Republicans and the extreme right. The true 'core' of both parties is far closer to the center than the extremists that tend to dominate discourse, and which are frequently mistaken as the 'core'. Mistaking the most extreme supporters of your product (even if your 'product' is a political party), as representative of your customers as a whole does not generally lead to good results. Just ask the smarter Republicans, or any Democrats old enough to remember 1994.

 

While Ford should pay attention to the rantings of dedicated fans, such as ourselves, they are far better served consulting existing customers before making product decisions.

 

And for the record, only one person here has stated definitively that he would've bought the S-Max had it been on the market a year ago. No one else has stepped forward and volunteered to provide 'effective demand', as the economists say.

I think that Ford history of Making cars and MPVs is not strong engouh to have a core. becuase in the past they have appealed and tried to appeal to many differenteople and Failed many different people.

 

FOrd's strength and True core are it's Trucks. FOrd is weak on small cars, midsized cars and MPVs. they have no core they don't have the prodcut to keep a core customer in the Flock.

 

When you cancel a product like the Frestar or the taurus, you make the people who have bought those product Feel foolish for buiying it. because It was soo bad that they no longer offer the product.

[RichardJensen]

I think that Ford history of Making cars and MPVs is not strong engouh to have a core. becuase in the past they have appealed and tried to appeal to many differenteople and Failed many different people.

 

FOrd's strength and True core are it's Trucks. FOrd is weak on small cars, midsized cars and MPVs. they have no core they don't have the prodcut to keep a core customer in the Flock.

 

When you cancel a product like the Frestar or the taurus, you make the people who have bought those product Feel foolish for buiying it. because It was soo bad that they no longer offer the product.

This is not necessarily a true statement. Ford has a fairly high loyalty rate not only among trucks and SUVs but among cars as well. This indicates a core of some sort.

 

Granting the reality that Ford's passenger car core and passenger car identity are not as solid as their truck and SUV core (only a fool would argue otherwise), it doesn't necessarily follow that Ford is free to do what it wishes with its passenger cars.

 

In addition to having a set of core customers, you also have to deal with the reality of your brand's identity. If you do nothing at all to manage your brand's identity, or if you carefully manage it, either way, there are set things that the public at large associates with your brand.

 

Like all research that relies on generalizing the atttitudes of large numbers of people, these 'things' are not universal, (again, only a fool would seriously say, "Nobody wants a Ford S-Max"). This, however, does not invalidate the conclusions that study of the American car-buying public yield.

 

If you wish to 'position' your brand in such a way that it appeals to a certain group of people, you are first advised to discover if they are predisposed to view your brand in a favorable light. If not, get ready to spend the big dollar, because it will either take a small amount of money and a large amount of time, or it will take a large amount of money and a short amount of time to change the attitude of your target audience. And the higher the average transaction price of the goods you sell, the longer it will take you to change the opinions of your audience (as a general rule).

 

For instance, if Ford were to decide to position itself as a "European" brand, or at the very least, "International", it would be smart to study and see if Ford could affordably convince a sufficient number of Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Volkswagen customers to jump ship using that message.

 

IMO, this is a waste of time.

 

Better to find areas where you have a strengths opposite their weaknesses. For instance, Americans are by and large patriotic. However, when it comes to purchasing vehicles, they are unwilling to accept compromises in quality in order to buy American.

 

The company that successfully portrays itself as American while delivering attractive quality product will have an inside track with a certain constituency. Toyota wants to be seen as an American car company, this is an effort as misguided as Ford attempting to pass itself off as European, again, IMO.

 

All along there have been people willing to buy American just because. It is up to Ford to take its share of that constituency and expand it to embrance people who want to buy American, but only if it's an attractive vehicle, a good value, and reliable. As Ford learns to earn its customers' business it will become a better company than it has been in the past.

 

Ford could try and go the European route, but this is easier, and as VW sales numbers show, the market for true European vehicles is pretty doggone small.

 

The legacy of the Escort, Taurus and Focus is that Ford enjoys a reputation as the more "Euro" of the big two (Chevy and Ford), and they can certainly continue to develop that reputation as the purveyor of better handling and better driver's cars, but they can't take it to the extreme and offer something even as sporty as a Passat.

 

Fords should have a certain je ne sais qua that is vaguely "international", but more Johnny Carino's or (worst case) Olive Garden international than the real thing. Most of us just don't have the stomach for the real thing.

Edited November 21, 2006 by RichardJensen

[Biker16]

This is not necessarily a true statement. Ford has a fairly high loyalty rate not only among trucks and SUVs but among cars as well. This indicates a core of some sort.

 

Granting the reality that Ford's passenger car core and passenger car identity are not as solid as their truck and SUV core (only a fool would argue otherwise), it doesn't necessarily follow that Ford is free to do what it wishes with its passenger cars.

honestly, Freestar and windstar buyer have no where to go, it is insulting to people that buy minivans ford that ford doesn't offer them anymore, forcing minivan buyer to go elsewhere. thus losing thos people that bought aerostars -> windstars -> freestars -> nothing..............

 

The fairlane isn't a minivan, by it nature it doesn't appeal to our core minivan customer but to different type of cusomer. practicallity wise it doesn't compete, it is less practical for doing reall minivan things.

 

There is me Who bought a Focus as a European Small car. Focus-> nothing............... Customer has no where to go. but elsewhere, I'd buy Rabbit right now but... 2.5l is too big and too thirsty.

 

 

 

 

 

"Ford could try and go the European route, but this is easier, and as VW sales numbers show, the market for true European vehicles is pretty doggone small."

 

VW has a weak Dealer base IMO.

 

FOrd is a mianstream brand VW is a bit above.

[RichardJensen]

Very very few retail buyers of new Ford minivans these days, ditto the Taurus.

 

Also, VW has been in this country as long as Toyota. Toyota adapted to the U.S. market, and saw its market share skyrocket starting in the late 80s and early 90s. VW did not.

 

Look at sales figures from 1980 or so, IIRC, VW was the most popular import brand at the time.

 

Saying that VWs don't sell because they have a limited dealer base ignores the reality that they have a limited dealer base because their products aren't as popular as Toyota's, for instance.

Edited November 21, 2006 by RichardJensen

[Biker16]

Very very few retail buyers of new Ford minivans these days, ditto the Taurus.

 

 

But at one time there were alot of retial buyers of the Taurus, windstar, and Focus. what happened to them? do we care?

 

Toyota is gaining market share at our expense. We let our customer base go. Should we try to get those cusomers back?

 

 

Saw Casino Royal today. The Mondeo looks much better moving,, oohh... yes.

[RichardJensen]

But at one time there were alot of retial buyers of the Taurus, windstar, and Focus. what happened to them? do we care?

Do we care? Not to the extent that 'we' cannot get their business back economically.

 

If it would cost us more to regain their business than we would make from them, no, we rightly do not want their business back.

[grbeck]

Very very few retail buyers of new Ford minivans these days, ditto the Taurus.

 

Also, VW has been in this country as long as Toyota. Toyota adapted to the U.S. market, and saw its market share skyrocket starting in the late 80s and early 90s. VW did not.

 

Look at sales figures from 1980 or so, IIRC, VW was the most popular import brand at the time.

 

Saying that VWs don't sell because they have a limited dealer base ignores the reality that they have a limited dealer base because their products aren't as popular as Toyota's, for instance.

 

VW was the top imported marque until the middle of 1975.

 

It has also been in the American market longer than Toyota. The first VWs were brought here in 1949, although it didn't sell in significant numbers until 1954. Toyota first came here in 1958, quickly withdrew because the cars were so terrible, and came back in the early 1960s (1964, if I recall correctly).

 

A now-defunct magazine named Road Test published the sales figures for each marque every month. For the domestics, it included a breakdown by model. As a kid I enjoyed reading that sales chart with each issue.

 

It was big news when Toyota pulled ahead of VW in 1975. I don't know whether Toyota outsold VW for the entire year, but it was ahead for the entire year of 1976, and has never looked back.

 

VW used to have a very strong dealer network, but the company never really recovered when the Beetle fell out of favor in the early 1970s. At its peak in the late 1960s, VW was ranked only behind Chevrolet, Ford, Pontiac, Plymouth and Dodge on the American sales charts. But as the products fell from public grace, the dealer network got weaker. And VW dealers had a terrible reputation for service-after-the-sale once the front-wheel-drive models were introduced. Those first front-wheel-drive models had as bad a reputation for quality as anything Detroit put out at that time.

 

People forget that before the Japanese began taking share away from the domestics, they first drove the low-priced European marques out of America. Fiat, Austin, Renault, Lancia and Morris were all gone by the mid-1980s, and VW saved itself by touting its German heritage and moving upmarket slightly.

[Biker16]

Do we care? Not to the extent that 'we' cannot get their business back economically.

 

If it would cost us more to regain their business than we would make from them, no, we rightly do not want their business back.

We don't want our Former customers back?

 

Well? why are we bothering to make CUV like the edge or Fairlane. our core customers like the Explorer and escape? WHy design any new products? our Core customers are happy with what thy have.

[RichardJensen]

We don't want our Former customers back?

Tell me. Did you read everything I said, and intentionally misrepresent it, or did you not read all of it, and presume that you knew where I was going?

[Biker16]

Tell me. Did you read everything I said, and intentionally misrepresent it, or did you not read all of it, and presume that you knew where I was going?

 

I would never intentionally misrepresent you.

 

CArs are tools to accomplish a job or jobs. You talk as if it was ok to what we have been doing, launch and leave.

 

I f it is too difficult to maintain market share you let the Market go. Ala minivans, C-cars -B-cars, Compact P/Us. leaving entire Segements, we used to dominate, to our comptetion Because it's too hard?

 

The imports don't give up, they may fail, once, twice or even 3-times, eveventualy they succeed. that Why they Are up in profits and up in sales, becuase they see a larger picture and they are agressive in building thier business, not shrinking it.

 

You have to be agressive, and make The better tools the consumer didn't think they needed.

[RichardJensen]

From an economic segment, you only target customers that you can acquire profitably. It makes no sense for VW to build the Phaeton because it would cost too much to acquire sufficient business from that income and lifestyle bracket.

 

And if you have capacity to build 4,000,000,000 vehicles, but you cannot profitably obtain 4,000,000,000 sales, you shrink. You don't gamble on your ability to against the odds get back a million units of volume, you evaluate what business you can retain, and you downsize to that level of profitability.

 

Overcapacity is something the imports have not had to deal with, therefore, it is not appropriate to compare their whitespace entries with vehicles Ford cannot profitably sustain.