A simple New Concept for Ford

[scottyboy]

If you take care of the customer, that will take care of the bottom line. Ford does not operate under this concept

 

I believe the culture at ford is:

 

Take care of the Top line (or the bottom Line) it really does not matter which. What happens is all decisions are made without regard to the customer, and you end up with Ford, as we know it today. This concept can work for short periods of time to drive quarterly results for Wall Street, but does not work for periods of time.

 

You end up with Debt, Piss poor customer service, and lousy Product, Bad Moral, and worst of all a Bad reputation and loss of customers. Your customers and your employees are you best assets and you are losing both of them faster then you can count

 

This is a culture that has to start at the CEO and be pushed down through the organization. It took a while to destroy the company and will take along time to fix it.

Unless the culture changes ford will just burn cash and end up bankrupt.

 

Good Luck

[TheLemon]

If you take care of the customer, that will take care of the bottom line. Ford does not operate under this concept

 

I believe the culture at ford is:

 

Take care of the Top line (or the bottom Line) it really does not matter which. What happens is all decisions are made without regard to the customer, and you end up with Ford, as we know it today. This concept can work for short periods of time to drive quarterly results for Wall Street, but does not work for periods of time.

 

You end up with Debt, Piss poor customer service, and lousy Product, Bad Moral, and worst of all a Bad reputation and loss of customers. Your customers and your employees are you best assets and you are losing both of them faster then you can count

 

This is a culture that has to start at the CEO and be pushed down through the organization. It took a while to destroy the company and will take along time to fix it.

Unless the culture changes ford will just burn cash and end up bankrupt.

 

Good Luck

 

 

You are 100% right!

[MyBlueOval]

If you take care of the customer, that will take care of the bottom line. Ford does not operate under this concept

 

I believe the culture at ford is:

 

Take care of the Top line (or the bottom Line) it really does not matter which. What happens is all decisions are made without regard to the customer, and you end up with Ford, as we know it today. This concept can work for short periods of time to drive quarterly results for Wall Street, but does not work for periods of time.

 

You end up with Debt, Piss poor customer service, and lousy Product, Bad Moral, and worst of all a Bad reputation and loss of customers. Your customers and your employees are you best assets and you are losing both of them faster then you can count

 

This is a culture that has to start at the CEO and be pushed down through the organization. It took a while to destroy the company and will take along time to fix it.

Unless the culture changes ford will just burn cash and end up bankrupt.

 

Good Luck

Never had a situation like this before, mostly it's people buying Jap cars

and they are junk and the Unions who have been demanding the

world for the last several decades. And government could care less.

It's not Mr. Ford's fault, he just got stuck with all this that has been

buildingup for years. I never had a junk Ford ever and have bought

nothing else since 1990. My dealer calls me all the time asking if there

is anything he can do for me. I know more about Ford than he does.

[TheLemon]

Never had a situation like this before, mostly it's people buying Jap cars

and they are junk and the Unions who have been demanding the

world for the last several decades. And government could care less.

It's not Mr. Ford's fault, he just got stuck with all this that has been

buildingup for years. I never had a junk Ford ever and have bought

nothing else since 1990. My dealer calls me all the time asking if there

is anything he can do for me. I know more about Ford than he does.

 

 

:blah: :blah: :blah:

 

Take of the blinders....

[scottyboy]

Never had a situation like this before, mostly it's people buying Jap cars

and they are junk and the Unions who have been demanding the

world for the last several decades. And government could care less.

It's not Mr. Ford's fault, he just got stuck with all this that has been

buildingup for years. I never had a junk Ford ever and have bought

nothing else since 1990. My dealer calls me all the time asking if there

is anything he can do for me. I know more about Ford than he does.

 

You know more about fords then your dealer does.. How sad is that.. Not that you know so much, I commend you for that.. But the dealer knows LESS... This just shows how screwed up ford and it's dealers are.

 

Your dealer probably calls because his customer base is going away,and he wants to sell you something. Maybe you got a good dealer,but most are just idiots. I hate to plan stuff on dealers,but they are who the general public has to deal with. If you have a problem ford tells you call the dealer,so the dealer has to take the rap good or bad.

 

The government has nothing to do with it. And as far as the unions, You are right they get paid to stay home for months,and countless other bennys that should not have been given. It is fords ( and the others GM,Chrysler) for giving all this to the union. now everyone of them is paying the price. I heard that $1200 of every car sale goes to pay benifits for people who don't even work for ford anymore. How screwed up is that ? Did the bean counters not figure this stuff out when they were handing out these packages ?

 

I'm just a cutomer exspressing my point of view of how screwed up this all is. I don't see how ford can survive and I only have very limited knowledge of the company.

 

All I want as a customer is "Take care of the customer"

[sparks will fly]

Changing the culture at Ford is like getting a meth head off the stuff. The first time they get close to changing something happens, they get worked up, forget to count to 10, and end up doing the same thing that got them in trouble to start with. It is kinda like being in a realtionship you can't change the other person, until that is understood and accepted it will never be perfect.

[bec5150]

We all know the reason people started to buy the Hondas and Toyotas in the 70's, 80's and even the 90's. That's all water under the bridge. Here's the big challenge. Let's say Ford makes the best product on the market right now. Sounds great, eh? But how do they get the perfectly happy Toyota or Honda owner, the person that had a bad experience with their LAST Ford, beit a Taurus tranny or Windstar engine, or perhaps one of the other issues, and those didn't get resolved. They bought a Toyota and are very happy. How do you get them to buy a Ford again?

 

Two ways, easily stated, not easily done. One, better product. Mustang is a good example. A 500 at about 28K with AWD and a powerful V-6 or even a V-8 is another. Take the Fusion and put the Mazda 2.3 Turbo "V-8 hunter" in it, call it a Fusion SVT, sell it for 25K.

 

Second, and I may have said this once on this board...FIX THE FRIGGIN DEALERS!!

 

Ford, you read this...ok, READ THIS!!! FIX YOUR DEALERS. I'll tell you what, Ford, drop me a PM and I'll take a day off of work. We'll go undercover to shop for a car and I'll SHOW you what's wrong with your dealers. One day...I'll buy you lunch!!!!

[swenson88]

We all know the reason people started to buy the Hondas and Toyotas in the 70's, 80's and even the 90's. That's all water under the bridge. Here's the big challenge. Let's say Ford makes the best product on the market right now. Sounds great, eh? But how do they get the perfectly happy Toyota or Honda owner, the person that had a bad experience with their LAST Ford, beit a Taurus tranny or Windstar engine, or perhaps one of the other issues, and those didn't get resolved. They bought a Toyota and are very happy. How do you get them to buy a Ford again?

 

Two ways, easily stated, not easily done. One, better product. Mustang is a good example. A 500 at about 28K with AWD and a powerful V-6 or even a V-8 is another. Take the Fusion and put the Mazda 2.3 Turbo "V-8 hunter" in it, call it a Fusion SVT, sell it for 25K.

 

Second, and I may have said this once on this board...FIX THE FRIGGIN DEALERS!!

 

Ford, you read this...ok, READ THIS!!! FIX YOUR DEALERS. I'll tell you what, Ford, drop me a PM and I'll take a day off of work. We'll go undercover to shop for a car and I'll SHOW you what's wrong with your dealers. One day...I'll buy you lunch!!!!

 

 

It's going to take a long time to ever get those people back. The good thing is there are still a lot of people who don't just mindlessly buy another Honda or Toyota every time they shop, but actually comparison shop and buy what appeals to them. The Honda/Toyota sheep (I don't feel necessarily right saying that, I know these people and many simply had terrible experience with domestics but have had great experience with imports) aren't going to come back to a Ford or domestic vehicle anytime soon. Why would they? Unless they get burned by crappy Japanese vehicles, which doesn't seem to be happening, why take another risk on such a big investment? Like I've said before, just trying to equal the competition isn't going to win anyone over, you need to outdo them. Become MORE powerful, MORE fuel-efficient, MORE reliable, etc etc etc. Only then will you get the Consumer Reports crowd to even give you a second look.

[scottyboy]

It's going to take a long time to ever get those people back. The good thing is there are still a lot of people who don't just mindlessly buy another Honda or Toyota every time they shop, but actually comparison shop and buy what appeals to them. The Honda/Toyota sheep (I don't feel necessarily right saying that, I know these people and many simply had terrible experience with domestics but have had great experience with imports) aren't going to come back to a Ford or domestic vehicle anytime soon. Why would they? Unless they get burned by crappy Japanese vehicles, which doesn't seem to be happening, why take another risk on such a big investment? Like I've said before, just trying to equal the competition isn't going to win anyone over, you need to outdo them. Become MORE powerful, MORE fuel-efficient, MORE reliable, etc etc etc. Only then will you get the Consumer Reports crowd to even give you a second look.

Your Right except FORD needs to Addresse the " WHOLE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE"... Having great product is a start but the average consumer deales with the dealer,and if the dealer is a schmuck,the the experience is tainted.. As a reference, I just got a 2007 Ford Fusion ( I did not chose it) as it is a company fleet car. I do deal with the dealer to take delivery. I love this car..The best ford I have had. I aslo have bought fords for my wife.

 

My Experience with the fusion ( or more important what I tell people when they ask about my new fusion). I tell people " I love this Car" BUT The dealers( 6 of them) can not answer a simple question about adding sirius now that I have taken delivery. When it is a factory option,why can't I do it now that the car is built. I'm not talking about changing engines here. I ask the dealers(6) and here Can't do It,Ford does not give us information for that, Call Ford, I think we might get info next year.. I call ford and here you need to call the dealer. I call Sirius and Here Call Ford.. Would it not be nice If I could just say " I love this Car". You see I still love this car but my ovarall " Experience" is tainted by the satilite radio runaround

[Surgen]

Your Right except FORD needs to Addresse the " WHOLE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE"... Having great product is a start but the average consumer deales with the dealer,and if the dealer is a schmuck,the the experience is tainted.. As a reference, I just got a 2007 Ford Fusion ( I did not chose it) as it is a company fleet car. I do deal with the dealer to take delivery. I love this car..The best ford I have had. I aslo have bought fords for my wife.

 

My Experience with the fusion ( or more important what I tell people when they ask about my new fusion). I tell people " I love this Car" BUT The dealers( 6 of them) can not answer a simple question about adding sirius now that I have taken delivery. When it is a factory option,why can't I do it now that the car is built. I'm not talking about changing engines here. I ask the dealers(6) and here Can't do It,Ford does not give us information for that, Call Ford, I think we might get info next year.. I call ford and here you need to call the dealer. I call Sirius and Here Call Ford.. Would it not be nice If I could just say " I love this Car". You see I still love this car but my ovarall " Experience" is tainted by the satilite radio runaround

 

Not all factory options can easily be added later - I would imagine wiring/installing the satelite antenna is the biggest challenge.

 

There are LOTS of aftermarket options for satellite radio...

[scottyboy]

Not all factory options can easily be added later - I would imagine wiring/installing the satelite antenna is the biggest challenge.

 

There are LOTS of aftermarket options for satellite radio...

Guess you work for ford.. Same story too dificult " I think"

 

Go aftermarket and don't bother us with this... Exactly why the I made the points I made

[g48150]

If you take care of the customer, that will take care of the bottom line. Ford does not operate under this concept

 

I believe the culture at ford is:

 

Take care of the Top line (or the bottom Line) it really does not matter which. What happens is all decisions are made without regard to the customer, and you end up with Ford, as we know it today. This concept can work for short periods of time to drive quarterly results for Wall Street, but does not work for periods of time.

 

You end up with Debt, Piss poor customer service, and lousy Product, Bad Moral, and worst of all a Bad reputation and loss of customers. Your customers and your employees are you best assets and you are losing both of them faster then you can count

 

This is a culture that has to start at the CEO and be pushed down through the organization. It took a while to destroy the company and will take along time to fix it.

Unless the culture changes ford will just burn cash and end up bankrupt.

 

Good Luck

 

See the CEO has nothing to do with Ford as an organization. Hank the Deuce had the Whiz Kids set up Ford Corporate exactly as the military was AFTER WWII. After WWII who could beat us? In short no one, we still had all of our factories, none of our cities were destroyed, and filling the army ranks was as easy as grabbing every 18 year old out of high school.

 

How many privates in the military do you know taking orders directly from the joint chief of staff? The CEO exists only to steer the ship, the peons that scurry on the deck have little or no bearing on one another.

 

Ford just needs a different corp structure, the military was nice when it was easy sailing, but even now, does it help or hurt they we still think we're #1?

[ebritt]

It's going to take a long time to ever get those people back. The good thing is there are still a lot of people who don't just mindlessly buy another Honda or Toyota every time they shop, but actually comparison shop and buy what appeals to them. The Honda/Toyota sheep (I don't feel necessarily right saying that, I know these people and many simply had terrible experience with domestics but have had great experience with imports) aren't going to come back to a Ford or domestic vehicle anytime soon. Why would they? Unless they get burned by crappy Japanese vehicles, which doesn't seem to be happening, why take another risk on such a big investment? Like I've said before, just trying to equal the competition isn't going to win anyone over, you need to outdo them. Become MORE powerful, MORE fuel-efficient, MORE reliable, etc etc etc. Only then will you get the Consumer Reports crowd to even give you a second look.

What I dont get are the idiots who have a cow at any small problem with a domestic car, and overlook EVERYTHING for an Import. Example: My aunt owned a 96 Grand Am, car ran great but had trouble with the power windows all the time. She hated the car. Traded it in on a Honda and said she would never buy another GM or Ford ever again. The 02 Honda Accord has been in the shop several time for brakes totaling over $1000 out of pocket, and transmission troubles. She WORSHIPS this car. WTF!!! And there are lots more out there just like her.

[bec5150]

What I dont get are the idiots who have a cow at any small problem with a domestic car, and overlook EVERYTHING for an Import. Example: My aunt owned a 96 Grand Am, car ran great but had trouble with the power windows all the time. She hated the car. Traded it in on a Honda and said she would never buy another GM or Ford ever again. The 02 Honda Accord has been in the shop several time for brakes totaling over $1000 out of pocket, and transmission troubles. She WORSHIPS this car. WTF!!! And there are lots more out there just like her.

Here we go, Rotors, factory, are around 125 a piece, pads front and back are another 125 bucks, there's 375 bucks. Then you have labor, and you still could do this twice for less than 1000 bucks. I have driven cars, both foreign and domestic, to 200K miles and never put over 500 bucks in brakes in ALL of that time. So you would understand my issue with 1000 bucks worth of brake problems but invite you to elaborate please.

 

Transmission troubles? Well, if it's a V-6 it's covered by a warranty up to 100K and most dealers will cover it past 110K miles. So, what were her transmission problems? Again, please.

Edited December 11, 2006 by bec5150

[ebritt]

Here we go, Rotors, factory, are around 125 a piece, pads front and back are another 125 bucks, there's 375 bucks. Then you have labor, and you still could do this twice for less than 1000 bucks. I have driven cars, both foreign and domestic, to 200K miles and never put over 500 bucks in brakes in ALL of that time. So you would understand my issue with 1000 bucks worth of brake problems but invite you to elaborate please.

 

Transmission troubles? Well, if it's a V-6 it's covered by a warranty up to 100K and most dealers will cover it past 110K miles. So, what were her transmission problems? Again, please.

She has taken it in for grinding noise and warped rotors several times warranty paid part but not all. Over a year or period she has paid over $1000 in parts and labor because it is a "normal wear" item. Has had rotors replace 4 times. And she drives really slow and only has 70,000 miles on car.

 

As for transmission problems something to do with reprogramming and had a solenoid replaced. They were covered but it was in the shop several times and they kept it for a week last time, no rental car either.

 

But like I said she loves this car compared to the Grand Am which never gave her a minutes trouble save for the power window switch.

 

That is the blind devotion to Imports that I am talking about. She traded in a perfectly good car for one that has repeatedly let her down and she still loves it because "It's a Honda!"

[Watchdevil]

That is the blind devotion to Imports that I am talking about. She traded in a perfectly good car for one that has repeatedly let her down and she still loves it because "It's a Honda!"

 

These are the same kind of customers that VW has. Back in 1998 when VW was able to lure Honda and Toyota buyers (as well as those fed up with domestics) they brought out the Beetle, Jetta and Passat which became popular sellers. Tradtional VW buyers were always the lifelong fanatics who used to own rear engine air cooled vehicles or any of the older FWD cars. VW had good basic designs with the cheaped them out in some areas where it compromised quality and reliability. For instance where they save a few pennies on making a plastic guide for the electric window cables where they should have been rigid metal, it cost them in the long run in warranty repairs and customer aggravation. There were customers that loved their new VW's so much that they were more patient with the shortcomings but eventually their patience wore thin. There were also customers that believed guying a German car was doing no wrong and addressing any possibility that VW was making shoddy cars compromised the ego of the customers who did not want to believe that they made a mistake in judgement choosing a "high quality German brand".

 

Since we were discussing brake pads, VW also had a problem with pads on some of it's cars wearing out prematurely. These pads were wearing out between 10,000 and 15,000 miles. Many customers ended up paying for new pads because they are "wear" items only to find out they had to replace them again at the same premature intervals. Finally VW addressed the issue and lo and behold... They changed the part number of the brake pads with a new suffix on the end. Seems they were making the pads with materials too soft. There were never any problems after the pads were replaced with new part numbers.

 

There are a number of other issues VW had. Build quality and assembly was never one of them. There were defective coil on plug packs, gremlins in the computers that controlled the powertain and interior electronics, oil starvation on the turbochargers, a few pieces of interior trim that would break or have the finish peel (rubber coated plastics).

 

Eventually all this caught up with VW. It's well known they dropped to the bottom of all the quality surveys. One generation of poor quality parts in Beetles, Golfs, Jettas and Passats nearly did them in. The Passats didn't have as many problems because they were still built in Germany with mostly German sourced parts while most the other cars were built in Mexico and Brazil with different parts sourcing so they could be produced inexpensively.

 

VW took a beating with customer service. Most of the dealers were used to the small volumes of business just servicing old air cooled models and the limited number of FWD water cooled vehicles. When VW expanded thier model line and production to a newer generation of cars with wider customer appeal, the dealers in place could not handle it.

 

Since then quite a few dealerships have built new facilities or moved into larger existing ones. Also, I have kept very close tabs on the new generation of VW's and the quality is back up where it should be. The only problem is the number of last generation vehicles being serviced since 1998.

 

GM's only saving grace is the reliability of it's powertrains and good assembly of it's higher end cars and trucks. Even the lowly Cavalier I am driving is very reliable even though it is a crude, dated and unrefined design. GM is now working on style, content, quality materials and finishes and hopefully some more advanced powertrain and chassis refinements.

 

One thing I have noticed about GM's new strategy is that they are actually designing some of their products to remind people of pre-77 products. That was GM's glory days. If you just look at Chevy, they wanna remind customers of baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and Chevrolet. They are bringing back a Camaro, reviving the Impala with RWD, putting some beauty back into the Malibu and have restyled their trucks... All this to remind people of the successful popular models in recent history. GM is also applying traditional Buick identity and demographic appeal into a modern more relavent package. The Lucerne and Enclave are the only real bright spots and honestly thats all Buick needs to survive as a brand. Then you have Saturn. Good dealerships but they had poor product respresentation. So they bring over Opel and Opel inspired designs and appeal in a Euro way. They play on customer perception that something German is refined, exotic, sophisticated and an educated choice. Cadillac is just Cadillac. They have a steady revitalization going but I am not so crazy about their styling. They still look like cheap high content high volume cars instead of coming accross as exotic, refined, graceful and romantic. They do not live up to the mystique of their glory years. It's mostly the edgy flat styling with little detail that puts me off. Plus they don't have the interiors quite right yet. Pontiac has it's foot in the grave. The Grand Prix only conjures up images of rental cars so it needs to go. The only things they claim to glory is the GTO and Firebird and it seems only one or the other can exist but not both. The G6 was a good effort but the styling is not quite there nor the refinement. To me it still has that rental car look. However they hit an unexpected homerun with the Solstice.

 

It's hard for me to tell what Ford is doing. They seem to have no clear direction and the game plan changes every few months. I don't think Ford has as much of a quality issue these days as they do providing competitive, stylish and refined product that will attract buyers. Ford's only bright spots: The Mustang, Fusion/Milan/MKZ and the F-150 trucks. Even those vehicles could use more refinement in some areas. The rest is a confusing array of vehicles that needs refinement in some areas or need to be consolidated because of product overlap while others need to be completely redesigned to be relavent. Ford also need to restore some abandoned legendary nameplates by bring them in as product relavent for today. Each division could use addictional restored marques to the lineup. Thunderbird, Cougar, Continental... Ford having NO FAITH in those nameplates reinforces public perceptions that they have failed somehow when it is THE ACTUAL PRODUCT that failed because of lack of direction and timely renewal. In the past if a product had a successful nameplate but the product didn't live up to expectations, they just redesigned the product and kept the nameplate. Now Ford just abandons. The worst example is Ford's mid or compact sized sedans. While Ford of Australia has held to the Falcon name for generations, Ford kept changing the names... Falcon/Fairlane to Maverick, Torino, Granada, Fairmont, Tempo, Contour/Taurus and now Fusion/Five Hundred. Ford gave up on the Falcon name simply because it was associated with boring, bland and unexciting which was a result of not changing the vehicle enough to make it appealing with the same name. There is Ford's first example of the thinking that started the whole "let's see how long we can keep a car in production without changing it until no one wants it anymore". Meanwhile FoA took the old Falcon and changed it often enough to keep it relavent so that it stands today.

 

Even though Chevy put the Impala nameplate on a less than exciting FWD car for the masses, they managed to get the historic and easily recognized name out there and keep it a household word while makng plans to restore it to further glory in a package that it deserves. Another example is the Malibu. When it was revived in 1997, it came out in a boring Camry-look alike exterior with a cheap plastic interior. Years later it was redesigned influenced by Opel engineeing but they dumbed down the design and style so that it was completely unappealing. However they did not abandon the nameplate. They have enough faith to apply it to their 08 model which will have style and content to meet customer expectations.

Edited December 11, 2006 by Watchdevil

[bec5150]

She has taken it in for grinding noise and warped rotors several times warranty paid part but not all. Over a year or period she has paid over $1000 in parts and labor because it is a "normal wear" item. Has had rotors replace 4 times. And she drives really slow and only has 70,000 miles on car.

 

As for transmission problems something to do with reprogramming and had a solenoid replaced. They were covered but it was in the shop several times and they kept it for a week last time, no rental car either.

 

But like I said she loves this car compared to the Grand Am which never gave her a minutes trouble save for the power window switch.

 

That is the blind devotion to Imports that I am talking about. She traded in a perfectly good car for one that has repeatedly let her down and she still loves it because "It's a Honda!"

You know what it sounds like to me? It sounds like the rear brakes aren't working. Ran into the same problem with my father-in-law's car. It's either that or she rides the brakes. There has to be something else going on rather than just the ole' "it's a shitty import." Nevertheless, one grand in brakes is insane.

 

Blind devotion to Honda? Well, I have seen the same for other brands as well and you are correct, that's stupid.

[retro-man]

What I dont get are the idiots who have a cow at any small problem with a domestic car, and overlook EVERYTHING for an Import. Example: My aunt owned a 96 Grand Am, car ran great but had trouble with the power windows all the time. She hated the car. Traded it in on a Honda and said she would never buy another GM or Ford ever again. The 02 Honda Accord has been in the shop several time for brakes totaling over $1000 out of pocket, and transmission troubles. She WORSHIPS this car. WTF!!! And there are lots more out there just like her.

It's obvious she's been brainwashed. It's a stinkin Commie plot. They start with fluoride in the water supply, corrupting our precious bodily fluids.......

Edited December 12, 2006 by retro-man

[scottyboy]

It's obvious she's been brainwashed. It's a stinkin Commie plot. They start with fluoride in the water supply, corrupting our precious bodily fluids.....

 

Maybe it's just that the "other" car companys know how to treat thier customers. While the car/truck may not be any better they are getting treated right. People might even be paying more,but if they get treated right and see value in what they are getting,they will pay more..

 

After all if the customer is happy,isn't that what matters. You can argue all day about brake jobs costing to much etc, but if this lady is happy with her car,then the dealer has done his job. He has worked on her car,made her happy and demonstrated value in his services ..

[ebritt]

Maybe it's just that the "other" car companys know how to treat thier customers. While the car/truck may not be any better they are getting treated right. People might even be paying more,but if they get treated right and see value in what they are getting,they will pay more..

 

After all if the customer is happy,isn't that what matters. You can argue all day about brake jobs costing to much etc, but if this lady is happy with her car,then the dealer has done his job. He has worked on her car,made her happy and demonstrated value in his services ..

Dude , you dont get what I am talking about.....you have to hear her talk about these two cars. The Grand Am was "a pile of junk", she never had any mechanical problems out of it .......ever! The thing had over 120K on it when she traded it. When she got the Accord she said "I wont have to worry about this car, cause it is a Honda and they run for 300,000 miles." The car didnt have 20k on it when the front rotors cracked! But that is minor, and it is the best car ever built! She still has trouble with it in defends that car to no end. She gets pissed off if you say something is wrong with it.

 

And like I said she aint the only one out there.