silvrsvt

Well read this then: https://climate.ec.europa.eu/document/download/b644dafe-1385-4b56-98d9-21e7e9f3601b_en?filename=report.pdf OBFCM: On-Board Fuel Consumption Monitoring

They've also haven't had the best track record with often showing photoshops of vehicles as spy shots.

But depending on who you believe, the lightning might not be selling to them either. I'd think that Ford wouldn't want to divide the market for something that doesn't sell that well.

I don't see much happening to BOC outside of maybe a delay or two with product. I think Ford winding down the Lightning production is telling also, since I don't expect the Lightning to stick around once the new EV truck is in production. Also I see other plants maybe getting shut down in NA (like Flat Rock) later this decade with the product going to BOC as the EV transition goes on.

But how would that affect the benefits they've gotten from the Canadian government?

Different bumper...not sure what else has changed on it. Hopefully maybe a move to a 800V system so it can charge faster.

https://insideevs.com/features/695492/epa-vs-wltp-ev-range-difference https://climate.ec.europa.eu/document/download/b644dafe-1385-4b56-98d9-21e7e9f3601b_en?filename=report.pdf So the study already addressed that part...WLTP is just a baseline test but the expected difference in the "real world" was quite a bit more then it should be. The difference in ICE was 21% vs an expected 20%

I'm not, the various governments apparently don't think that enough or they would say hey its ok if you just make hybrids, instead for pushing the market towards ultra low or no CO2 emissions vehicles (PHEV or EV).

The issue is that your using your own experience as gospel for everyone else, when the data obliviously is contradicting that, not to mention just basic human nature for not knowing any better or not even caring when using a car. You also missed the point, that in the eyes of the government and its regulations and what the manufacturers are doing to meet them, by using PHEVs, they aren’t as effective from reducing a CO2 perspective as they where thought to be, because a significant amount of people aren’t using them properly. As for plugging in-they are tested to be plugged in to get the max efficiency out of them. Average driving distance is roughly 30 miles a day, which using the Escape PHEV, a single charge can do or at least use its ICE to a bare minimum. Otherwise your burning some fuel to get where you need too.

Nah I wouldn't go that far, maybe a restyling or other improvements. The Skunkworks was about making an more affordable EV that would be around Escape sized.

Thanks for summing up what I was unsuccessfully trying to get out

They are insignificant if you use a properly charged PHEV or EV in comparison. Since both of them can produce less then .5 metric tons of CO2 a year.

LOL But your comparing MPG to CO2, which is what the article is about 😛 And don't forget that MPG doesn't linearly get better either as it goes up.

Did I ever say that? The only point I was addressing is that they aren't as clean as they are made out to be because people aren't using them properly, so at that point what is actually the point of it? Manufactures are building P/HEVs because they need to make CO2 requirements due to government, but customers are not using them properly to get that benefit and what it defaults to isn't a major improvement over ICE in the same product.

but apparently the data is stating they are not.

The issue is that laboratory testing needs to be done at a fixed constant, which why there is a difference. EPA Vs. WLTP EV Range Ratings: Here’s Why They’re Different Not to mention that EPA Fuel Economy tests are off themselves, I can get almost 20 MPG with my Bronco without trying with local driving, which is bit better then the city rating for it. On the high way I'm lucky to get 20 MPG, because its a brick LOL What it boils down to is EPA Fuel Economy/range and WLTP ratings are a baseline, not a guarantee

Looking at the source article, ICE had about 20% variance from laboratory testing (which was expected by them), but PHEVs where significantly worse then their testing, which was deducted down to them not being plugged in all the time. What it ultimately boils down to is that PHEVs don't really offer a huge improvement in CO2 emissions unless they are plugged in all the time, which was the primary reason why they are being implemented. Then add in the fact that larger vehicle hybrids offer almost no improvement over a smaller gas engine (ie F-150) in CO2 emissions either

Your images are broken

The reason it is selling so well is that its getting subvented interest rates....even at 84 months, its 1/2 of a "good" rate from a Credit union.

But there isn't millions of P/HEV being sold yet and its "only" 25% improvement...when other tech out there offers a larger improvement.

But here is the thing-the latest study didn't even factor in HEVs...only PHEVs. And using CO2 as the metric to compare to (which the article is using as a measurement), you do not see a huge improvement going to a hybrid vs fuel efficient ICE route vs PHEV. Not to mention using MPGs as a measurement sucks because as it gets higher, the less return your going to see. http://www.mpgillusion.com/p/what-is-mpg-illusion.html#:~:text=The Cause of the Illusion&text=By necessity%2C MPG has a,10%2C000 miles divided by MPG. Using the Escape as the example since it comes in 3 different flavors that applicable to this conversation Its a 1.2 metric ton difference between ICE and Hybrid and 4.42 vs PHEV using US EPA testing.

Maybe before you shoot your mouth off, how about checking the actual source data that the article got its information from: First Commission report on real-world CO2 emissions of cars and vans using data from on-board fuel consumption monitoring devices PDF: https://climate.ec.europa.eu/document/download/b644dafe-1385-4b56-98d9-21e7e9f3601b_en?filename=report.pdf This was published about three weeks ago

https://electrek.co/2024/03/25/yet-another-study-shows-plug-in-hybrids-arent-as-clean-as-we-thought/

Yet another study shows plug-in hybrids aren’t as clean as we thought I know this is has been a bone of contention, but it appears people aren't plugging them enough....

But there is the thing-there is no placating people like this...come out with more efficient vehicles and they'll find something else to bitch about Ford and GMs first priory is make their shareholders happy by building products people want to buy and large trucks are the most popular segment that can sell at a profitable margin for them.