V8-X

This is true. But this is also one of the Tundra owners main gripes, is they are stuck with basically 3 trim levels, and options are limited. Add into the fact many dealers won't budge too far from the MSRP price, and this doesn't help the Tundra sell more.

TO ME, it looks much better than its Chevy & GMC siblings. While I think the Chevy is okay, I also think the GMC models are simply awful. And this is all quite odd to me, as I think Caddy's design language has run its course. I'm so over and tired of the Caddy Art & Science design.

Update: Hung out with the F-i-L yesterday for the Broncos/Cowboys game (one hell of a game) and so glad they pulled it out in the end. Anyways, he reported on his WY trip, which was all highway he averaged 23mpgs. Much better than the 15mpgs he's been averaging in mixed driving situations, but still off EPA/Ford figures. He's very dissatisfied with the Escape. He states the seats are not comfortable and that it's difficult to find a good driving position, as he constantly adjusting. His only praise of the Escape is the available power the 2.0L has if/when needed. He stated that he'd never purchase an Escape personally, nor recommend one to a friend/family, but he did state he can't gripe too much, since everything regarding this vehicle is paid for by IR and it's a much better option than using his personal vehicle for work. I'm not sure if he truly loved the car, or if he's just that unhappy with the Escape, but he continues to heap praise onto the Taurus. He states that was one of, if not the best vehicle he ever owned (drove for an extended time). Vehicle was very comfortable yet sporty at the same time and the motor/trans combo was a pure performer in both power and mpg, until it crapped out that is. He had no problem getting 19-21mpgs city and 28mpgs or better highway no matter his driving style. Still thinks it's one of the best looking vehicles on the road too. Of course he was not happy with the various quality issues (most fixed under warranty), especially the paint issues that developed in the last year. As stated in another thread, his girl friend recently purchased a 2013 Escape. Evidently she is fond of the style and likes the drive, but he couldn't point to the reason she purchased as she is aware how unhappy he is with his. Of course she is coming from a Malibu, so that may be reason enough to move to an Escape. Know her daughter has a 2011 Fusion and is extremely happy with it, so that could play a factor too. Now her Escape is the 1.6L (not sure of trim level as I never saw the vehicle), and the father in law stated it has brought back much better mpg than his (unsure of actual mpgs), but also is a slug in the performance dept, especially compared to the 2.0L.

Sounds like Toyota's motto, based on your above suggestion is "You get what you get and don't throw a fit". Whereas Ford and GM, are more to the point of offering every trim and configuration under the sun, to provide the consumer with options on what best fits their needs and pocket book. I'll take the Ford and GM approach.

Got ya fellas, thanks! Wasn't sure why there was such a discrepancy between the two, other than had the SD model been de-tuned for whatever reason.

Can't say what trans it uses in the SD's, but the 6.2L has been tuned for more power in the F150 (411/434) than the SD (385/405).

From my understanding, I thought this was a rehash of the the current product. So no all new platform. Then again, could be wrong, have been before.

Just saw this on Jalopnick too. Glad to see Toyota's moving forward and improving their products.

Funny the Tundra site I visit from time to time, wants to make the lack of sales look like it's due to domestic incentives or 2 less sales days from Sept. 2012 to 2013. Me think the Tundra hasn't kept up with the competition (domestics at least), and their 2014 refresh didn't do enough to keep relevant.

and a 2nd AMEN!

Sad part, the conservatives demonize liberals in the exact same fashion. Neither party is without fault nor better than the other. Agreed Agreed As to those last two quotes, simply shows both parties play the same stupid game against each other, and act like they are the better.

Interesting. Most SD/Ram owners I know avoid the GM 2500/3500 mostly because of the IFS. I think it might be hard for Ford to offer both setups, but think IFS should be optional with the SFA standard. Mine and my families experience with the TTB was while it was a decent setup, you couldn't keep them damn trucks aligned. And as my above post states, it's interesting to hear you want IFS, as I do not know an SD owner that would opt for IFS over SFA.

Personally being a lifetime Ford truck owner and family, Ford doesn't need to beat the L86 on power, nor on fuel economy. I would say at least if Fords EB or 6.2 can put down similar numbers, even if slightly less in both categories, Ford, their truck buyers and Fords pocket books will be happy. GM typically has always been slightly better in both areas from the factory. Now I wouldn't say GM's 420/460 versus Fords 411/434 would be considered stomping a mud hole. It's better and I agree, but think Ford has enough reserve on the motor to boost those figures with some slight tweaks, especially if they adjust it appropriately and recommend premium too. Not sure they'd bring home the 15/21 GM advertises, but I'm confident Ford can be in the ballpark, say 14/20 or that area. As for the EB, I do not know how much more they have in reserve on that engine. I'm sure they could increase boost and complete some tuning tricks to get 400/440 power figures, or develop a 3.7L EB, but I would be afraid that might negatively impact mpgs. We all know the 5.0L already competes fairly admirably to the 5.3L in both power and mpgs. We also know the 5.0L appears to have been de-tuned and has significant reserve. So whether Ford does it now or when the 2015 is released, I'm sure we'll see the 5.0L surpass the 5.3L in power figures while bringing home nearly identical mpg. Just my opinion. Agreed, but also remember those trucks were significantly lighter than the trucks of today. Also remember, Ford too should be coming out with a similar 8/9 speed.

Yup! But I will point the finger at myself for my choices as I will at anyone else though, on any decision I made, right or wrong.

While I'm not big on Obama, to say Romney has character is laughable. Otherwise as for this thread, the problem is all these damn politicians. Too many want to blame one side or the other, left or right, conservative or liberals, Dems. or Reps. Truth of the matter, no matter how you look at it or whatever side of the fence you sit on, BOTH are at fault for our current state. And truly, it is we the people who are at fault. During recent elections, Congress was at an all time low approval rating, so what did we do? We the people re-elected then back into office and now they have an even lower approval rating. I know people love to banter back and forth and blame one another for their parties faults, as it makes for good debate. Too bad most can't self reflect and see their sides faults are as much the cause of our situation as those they like to point the finger at. Gotta love politics!

Nice!

Well, looks like there is a location in Estes Parks that has them. But who knows about getting there and if the shop is still open, after all the flooding that occurred in that area last month. I'd at least like to get some for a gag gift.

Hey I'm always down for something new. Wonder if I can find them soda's locally.

Problem is you assumed I was stating something I didn't. Next time just read the words that have been typed, instead of trying to read more into it than what it is.

Agreed, but in certain aspect, the 5.4L may lead some to perceive it as superior in those rare or limited situations. Agreed. While I love my 4spd as it's been bullet proof, the 6spd behind the 5.4L and 5.0L provides much better performance.

Agreed. The lower fascia and headlights make a difference. Now some of the body side sculpting does look changed, but how much will have to wait until the camo is removed. Dislike the front door wing windows, much prefer the one piece of glass look. Much prefer the rear bumper and exhaust execution on the concept. And the overall body appears to have a softer body lines compared to the concept, but as stated in my initial post, will wait to see without camo. Glad you know what it means. And sorry, but don't see where I made any factual statements. Stating "Fords don't have enough style or flare, in my opinion" is stating the same exact thing as "I don't care for Fords styling", just using different words and only factual basis behind either of these statements is that I, me, myself, am not fond of some of their styles. Period. If you read more into those statements, that's your problem not mine. And funny part is, I and many other users on this forum can make nearly identical statements about Toyota or Chevy or whatnot make, and that is okay. But you want to gripe when someone says the exact same about a Ford product. Come on man.

You do know IMHO means "in my humble opinion", right? So wouldn't that mean that the statement I just made was "my personal preference", not everyone's. Again, read my post thoroughly before posting, don't just jump to conclusions please.

Well it appears many here like it. Me while I don't dislike hate it, and as stated will wait for the camo to be removed, but I simply think it's a little bland. And based on the camo'd vehicle, I see similarities to the concept, and some uniqueness. Some likes and dislikes. I thought the concept was well executed, but this camo'd version doesn't appear to have the same flair. And is another reason why I said I'll wait. How am I making it more complicated than it is? Simply said it's "meh" meaning bland so far and will wait for the camo to come off. How the heck is providing my opinion based on a camo'd mule make it complicated? Why is that complicated, but others who like the vehicle is not considered complicated, like they have x-ray visions and know exactly what the production version will look like?

Again you read into my (as well as others) posts and attempt to assume the outcome or determine your own conclusion of my statement. Go ahead, re-read my post that I quoted below. Didn't I say "Nothing that appears to excite or interest me about the vehicle"? Where exactly did I say no one will like this and no one will purchase the vehicle because I personally dislike it? Didn't I even say I'd wait until it was no longer camo'd so I can get a better feel for the vehicle prior to making a final judgement? You are too quick to jump and defend any Ford product, bash others for their personal opinion and basically fail to fully read what is being typed. Rather than attempt to create an argument, wouldn't it be best to simply let it go and know that not everyone is going to agree with your opinion, as they won't mine? Or simply say, wait until the production version is released to see all the details? I still do not like the overall style of the Escape, but it's grown on me a little bit more and have come to accept the style. I've talked to many 2010 and prior Escape owners, and most do not like the exterior style, as it's too similar to every other product on the road, the prior gen was unique. There are those I know who owned a CR-V and Rav4 or what not that like the Escape style, as they feel it looks more like their current/former vehicle. So it's a mixed bad. So yes, the new style has alienated some, and is appealing to others.

I know. From my impression it was slight, but I couldn tell the difference. The average joe may not notice the difference in such gearing. But must say, in the 04-08 F150 5.4L 4spd 4x4, when you test drive a version with 3.55 and 3.73, you do notice a slight initial launch difference and tach readings between the two. No it's not significant or overwhelming, but it's noticeable if you pay attention.