tincup2b

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, show us your facts, your documentation, your proof that the Union has done something wrong with this vote. Copy and paste it, Scan and fax it, do something to open my (our) eyes. Until then I am still a "YES" vote and you need to put down the CRACK PIPE!!!! I do not like the agreement, I think we could have gotten better, but I'm not willing to possibly strike over an agreement that I think is average. THE RISKS DO NOT OUTWEIGH THE REWARDS AT THIS TIME!!!!!! BTW, I voted "NO" on the last contract and last COA. I'm not a "YES MAN" I'm a realist. The IUAW gave GM a bad deal and they approved it. That puts us in a very difficult spot. Open your mind and your eyes and evaluate the entire picture before spewing crap out your pie hole.

I am always a pessimist when it comes to contractual language. I try to put on "Company" glasses and read it the way their side negotiated it. You are correct about COLA. It has been struck from the language no longer a "Suspended" program. Same goes for several other programs one of which is legal service if I recall correctly. The one topic that I would disagree with you on is the 10% of profit sharing goes to VEBA. This is mentioned very briefly on the final page of the contract, how convenient, and it is very vague. It states the company is not comfortable with the legality of the issue and they are going to continue to look into the matter and make a decision within 12 months of ratification. Pretty Vague to me. If that is the truth doesn't sound like thet will be taking out the 10% this year. Wouldn't doubt they come back after it next year as something we "OWE" the union. LOL

I've read all 562 pages and can't find the "Big White Elephant" that tells me to vote NO! I will admit that I voted no on the last contract as well as the last two concession packages. Although this is not the deal that I was hoping for it is a lot better than the deal I thought they would give us to vote on. I don't like the cap on profit sharing at 12,000 per year, i don't like the fact that retirees are not getting a pay raise, I don't like the fact we are not getting COLA back, I don't like the fact that O/T is not paid until over 40 hrs in a week on an AWS instead of after 8 hrs per day, I don't like the fact Entry Level Employees will not receive dental until 3 years and vision until 5 years seniority, I don't like the fact they can mandatory 10.7 hrs to obtain 10.0 hrs of production on a 4x10 AWS, I don't like the fact that skilled trades teams will be implemented at all facilities. Most of these dislikes are already in the last contract and I would have obviosly loved to get all of them back. The rational person inside of me realizes that there is some good in this contract. I DO like the fact ETAP will go from 4600 to 5000, I DO like the fact KCAP employees will be listed at TLO not ILO during the 12-14 month model change when 1100-1300 people will be laid off, I DO like the fact Entry Level Employees will receive a pay raise of up to 3.50 per hour, I Do like the fact Entry Level Employees will receive a $500 voucher on top of "A" plan to purchase a new Ford/Lincoln, I DO like the fact we won "pay in lieu" back, I DO like the $6000 signing bonus, I DO like the fact of $1500 bonus every June, I DO like the fact Entry Level Employees will not have an urgent care or ER co-pay, I DO like the fact of updating the fitness center equipment, I DO like the major investments in the US plants (ie KCAP, FLATROCK, OHAP, LAP), I DO like the fact of profit sharing paid on first two quarters this year (Money we can't lose with corporate right offs). As you can see there are many likes and dislikes in this contract, and there are more that I didn't mention. I don't think that we went backwards this time. Although we didn't get as much as I would like I do think that the Elected officials did a fair job and made some gains, although modest. Just my two cents.

Its there. All 562 pages of it. Keep trying and be patient. I'm sure it will be on SOS shortly.

The profit sharing factor i heard today is .083. I'm not saying it is correct or incorrect but that is the rumor that was going around today at KCAP. I was unable to verify this rumor via the internet. If you are wanting to find out the exact number of hours you worked you can have your committeemen pull the report from the TWOS system or look at your online paystubs and only count the straight time hours. Then multiply those hours times your base rate and finally multiply that number times the .083 factor. That will give you your profit sharing amount before taxes.

Wish I would have knew that Ford was going to take such a hit in the 4th quarter on profits. I could have sold and bought back on Monday all of the stock I own. That would have far out weighed the 5k in profit sharing.

Not to say that you are wrong but YOU ARE WRONG! When KCAP took back the building of the IP for the Escape from Saline we received trades as well as production. Also when they quit building the Escape/Mariner in Ohio, guess what, yes KCAP received trades and production as a transfer then as well. You might want to have a few more facts before you say it cant be done because it has already happened twice at KCAP. Once again it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm STAYING at KCAP. Just stating the facts.

[i'm sure many of you have thought of this but I have a question. If LAP is getting $600 million to re-tool for the Escape wouldn't it take approx. the same to re-tool KCAP for whatever product they are getting? Why is KCAP only getting $400 million for re-tooling? I have heard all along that the Transit is going to be the next vehicle built on the SUV side at KCAP but it will not fit through the paint / E-coat tanks. If this is the case I don't think $400 million will pay for a new body shop along with tooling for trim and chassis and a new paint and e-coat system. With only $400 million in investments looks like maybe a vehicle closet to the same size as the Escape will be coming to KCAP. I guess we will find out when the company is good and ready for us to.

Thanks for the info on the LAP\KTP website. It has been very helpfull. Yes. I'm in trades. No. I'm not transferring to LAP. Yes. Trades will have the oppurtunity to transfer to LAP if LAP builds the Escape. Regardless of classification KCAP trades will have the right to follow their product. It doesn't matter if we are receiving $400 million to upgrade our facility. The transfer of operations language is fairly clear (compared to other language that is). Why are people so worried about why somebody else wants to know something? If somebody doesn't feel comfortable answering a question thats asked they should ignore the post and move on. Instead people want to stir the pot and post information that is obviosly not correct. If you do not know the answer, don't say that you do. You become a pain that will be ignored and called a troll. Good luck to all in LAP and those from KCAP that are thinking about the transfer. I hope it works out the best for all of you. It's a big decision especially when families are involved.

Now that production has went down and LAP is re-tooling, what are your work hours? We at KCAP have heard rumors of 7-10's, 7-12's, along with numerous other rumors. Also has your plant been flooded with contractors during this re-tooling? If so what hours are they working and how many shifts? Thanks for any info you can provide.

I haven't read the language in a year or so but if I remember correctly both the company and the local have to agree on the AWS. Not sure the IUAW would allow a local not to agree on one if the company wanted it though. You are correct on the 14 day notification part though. On the other side of that the Local or the Company can cancel the AWS with 14 days notification as well.

I wish I knew more about Bob King but since I am just a rank and file member that chance will never come. He will not come and ask for my vote or anybody’s else at each facility. The delegates will have no choice but to vote for King at the convention since he will be the only one running for the position. Doesn't seem quite fair to me but that the dictatorship we have at the top of our IUAW. Well look at it this way, Bob King is 63 years old the article states. If this is correct he will only be able to stay in office for 1 term. How much harm can he do in that short period of time? Yeah your right, we better hold on tight! This could be a very bumpy ride on our continuous track towards the bottom.

the Kuga is a great looking small SUV. We ran several bodys through the paint shop at KCAP about 18 months ago. I haven't seen one with the trim in it except on the internet but the body is very nice looking. I wish all of you at LAP the best when it comes to building it. You will probably be down around 6-9 months for re-tooling. I hope your union reps are fighting for as much work as possible to at least keep the skilled trades employeed during this time. Should be able to put on COEs as well to keep additoinal heads in the facility while it is being reworked. Good Luck.

There somebody goes spouting off again what they are sure of. I havent heard anybody moaning about having to work two sundays at KCAP. The "C" shift works every Sunday and although some don't like it they understand it is better to work "C" shift than not have a job. And the part about hiring Temps full time, how about offering people in the JSP a chance at work before we hire Temps full time. Just my opinion though.

I'm Good where I'm at!!!!

I couldn't agree with you more on your time to talk and a time to listen point! That is if you mean "IT'S TIME FOR THE IUAW TO LISTEN" to the membership. NO more concessions. Yes, Ford has debt but so do most large companies. Earlier this year Ford raised 1.4Billion dollars by selling additional common stock. Get ready for them to make another offering in the near future. They will most likely raise another 1-2 Billion and use this to convert some of their higher %rate debt to new lower %rate debt. The analyst will then raise Fords credit rating by at least 2 nothches which will save them millions per year in interest alone. That will in turn raise the stock price and they will then make half of their Veba payment to the UAW with stock and the other half with cash. All in all Ford is heading int he right direction as a company which is more than the other two US auto companies can say.

"Rejection of the deal by the union’s membership would be an embarrassment for Mr. Gettelfinger, who is in his final term as president, and for his possible successor, Bob King, who heads the union’s Ford department ." The above statement came from the article and states Bob King might take Gettelfinger's job. In my opinion the rank and file need to do whatever it takes to make sure Bob King has no chance at taking Gettelfingers spot. The most important thing we can do is Vote for the appropriate convention delegates from each of our plants come this spring. Make sure the ones you vote for will stand up and be heard at the convention and not sit back and do exactly as the International Union dictates. Then and only then will this once great union of ours begin to change for the better. It seems like our current leadership is afraid to make waves because they fear what ramifications that the IUAW might bring upon each local. If the IUAW is truly elected to represented the membership needs, why should the local leaderships fear them? The IUAW should be listening to the leadership of each Local Union and the Locals should be listening to the brothers and sisters of their local. When this begins to happen we will once again have solidarity. Hopefully with this percentage of NO votes coming in we are all heading in the right direction.

Very Nice AAI. Lets keep the NO votes coming.

I would hope you are being sarcastic about only 6 people showing up and Bob not taking the Mic and speaking. At KCAP all Bob did was try and convince us what a great job they did at the negotiating table and how many gains were in this new modification package. Obviosly we at KCAP didn't buy it. Now maybe Bob learned his lesson and is letting "The other Goons" try and sell the package. Sounds like a lot of "No" votes coming from Local 600 but I doubt it will top the 92% that KCAP put up. Good Luck.

almost 3800 work at KCAP so about 50% voted.

One brother began yelling "WAKE UP BOB! BOB, WAKE UP!" after Bob made the statement of outsmarting Ford. This is not suppose to be a time for laughter but I couldn't help myself when I heard this.

He was not alone either. He had three or four other international reps with him as well. (Frank K. and Rocky C. along with a M/W that is from the international.) I only spoke with the M/W but did not catch his name. They were walking around the plant yesterday trying to drum up support for the concessions. Or as Bob said today the gains that we had made. Yes Bob King said at the explanation meeting to the membership that these are not concessions but rather gains that the UAW has gained. He then stated that in his opinion they had outsmarted Ford at the negotiation table. If this is true I hope I never see what he would call a concession!!!

Let the snowball begin.