Swizco

Process isn't part of the investment - there are plenty of processes going on down there that the UAW have made impossible to implement in the states. Additionally, I've been at plants that have received, and are receiving substantial investment that don't have the quality of HSAP. Again, its the chicken / egg argument. You're saying, show us the investment, we'll show you the quality. I disagree, saying show us the quality, we'll show you the investment. Of course, none of this is terribly relevant for me, as I've left the company. :-) I just want Automod to roll out a solid 2011 Mustang 5.0 with my name on it. I'm counting down the days. Swizco

Having worked at HSAP and plenty of other plants in NA, I can assert that investment alone doesn't justify the quality ratings coming out of that plant. Process and attitude make up a large part of their performance. Swizco

I spent time at Norfolk, Ohio, Michigan, Dearborn, Wixom, KCAP, OAP, and HSAP, and never did I find more accountability than at HSAP, from management all the way down to the line guys. It shows in the numbers. Swizco

That bit about the transmission is a bit of a stretch. It started out as the co-developed unit between Ford and GM. Of course, the Ford transmission team achieve much better shift quality, higher quality, and substantially lower cost per unit. Its one product that's 95% the same between the two companies, so its a great place to make comparisons if you're a Ford fan. If you're a GM fan, its an issue to be avoided, or glossed over, as this poster did. My girl used to work in Livonia, and one of the directors gave a presentation during an all-hands comparing the two designs, their costs, and their warranty performance. It was pretty shocking. Swizco

Who's sig is making this thread unreadably wide? Swizco

I'm having trouble voting... Anyone else having problems? That said, there's a glass-roof'ed Mustang 5.0 in my future. Swizco

Wet clutches are far more durable, agreed. Hence their use in performance applications for auto and almost all motorcycles, with the exception of Ducati's, which until very recently had dry clutches, for their weight advantage. That's why Ducatis more than a few years old sound broken at idle. The uneven power pulses from the cylinders cause the dry clutch to chatter. Its all part of the experience. As for parasitic drag, you can drag a piece of paper across a tabletop with almost mo effort. Drag it across the same table with oil, synthetic or regular, and there's drag. Less for properly heated synthetic oils, but still more than air. The point is, dry clutches are still more fuel efficient. The trouble is features like hill-hold, or other features with sustained slip, which torque converters or wet clutch packs won't think twice about, will fry a dry clutch auto in no time. As for vocabulary, fair enough. :rolleyes: Swizco

By efficient, I mean two things. First, stronger holding power per unit of size and weight, with which you seem to agree. Second, having parts reciprocating in oil inherently increases drag more than parts reciprocating in air. therefor, dry clutches are inherently more efficient, as they add less parasitic driveline drag. What do you think? Swizco

...Not to mention a heavier car, or a performance application, would fry its internal clutches. They'd have to go to a wet-clutch design, like the rest of the industry, to safely handle much more torque than the 4 cylinder engines put out. Wet clutches are less efficient, though. Swizco

The 5.0 Mustang will be DOHC. I've seen those frikken wide valve covers. That's the good news. Bad news: Carryover powertrains for '10. 3.7 and 5.0 aren't around until '11. Swizco

'Evening All, OAP was swarmed with suits today. After a lengthy review, we received Ok-to-Buy on the Flex, meaning they'll leave for dealerships and start selling. Swizco

...Too few powertrain options, you guys complain. Too many, you complain. Welcome to BON. Swizco

The Fusion will be available in many flavors, from economy (2.5L and Hybrid), to 'volume' (240hp V6), to powerful (3.5L). ...Strange that you seem to think this is somehow a bad thing. Swizco

Powertrain actions releasing this December/January: New PIP 3.0 - 20-30hp increase over current model New 2.5L I4 - 10hp increase, 15 ft-lbs torque increase New 6 Auto with the I4 (currently a 5 speed...) New 6 Manual with the I4 (currently a 5 speed) Also, these new powertrains will come with significantly more soundpackage, making the cars quieter and more refined. 3.5L will be available a bit after launch in the Fusion ST or Sport (not sure what they're calling it yet). Also a little further out is the Ecoboost 2.5L. Swizco

It was the 3.5L TT. Yowza. Swizco

It'll be 'round 270-280hp at launch, with TF Ecoboost coming a year later. I drove an eco-boosted flex a few weeks back - its a MONSTER motor. Swizco

Geez, people, we've been over this before. Just the 2.5 na, the PIP 3.0, and the hybrid for '09. All other powertrain options will be at least another model year away. ...I hate to rain on the parade, but you know how Ford powertrain roll-outs go. We have to work on them for 20 years before they get into the cycle plan. Swizco

It brakes harder, from the extra grip of the tires. Also, it has a stiffened suspension to go along with those 22s, so its more responsive and corners faster. How would I know? I've been working on these upgrades for a while. Swizco

I don't think we'll have a new powertrain in it. It'll have a body kit, 22s, and a sporty suspension, but I don't think a whole lot else. Swizco

Here we go. Richard comes in to state the obvious fact that you can't assume the SE will have black bumpers, just because an early prototype does, and the negatoids start tossing out this crap. Maybe the SE will have black bumpers, maybe it won't. The bottom line is that we can't be sure yet. If it has 'em, it surely won't be the end of the world. If it doesn't, it won't save the company.

Most likely, this is due to Lincoln/Merc dealerships doing a better job with their pre-delivery of vehicles, fixing more things before they reach the customer. Ford dealerships take the plastic off of the facias and the seats, and move 'em out. I'll bet this accounts for most of the difference, because the vehicles are treated the same way at the plant. Swizco

...Yep, that crappy Fusion with its class-leading reliability, or that pos Edge with its explosive sales gains. What is Ford coming to, thinking reliable, stylish, desirable products like these will turn the company around. Swizco

I just bugged the brake guy again - he didn't have a lot more info on the recal. He said the Michilin tire swap is good for most of the reduction in braking distances, with the recal a much smaller contributor. I'm not sure if its something a dealer will be able to do, or not. When more info comes up about the cal or the Michilin tire pull-ahead, I'll pass it along. Swizco

You're backwards - the 17s are Hankook, 18s Conti. You're exactly right about tire selection! I'm glad someone appreciates the trouble we go to in trying to get all of this stuff right... Higher rate front shocks would destroy all of our ride and handling work. SS brake lines? Come on - we're Ford, not Ferrari. Tires and a re-cal will take care of us, and we'll have all of that in by summer's end, as well as a bunch of other fancy bits. Swizco

The tires make a much bigger impact on braking distances than the calibration, but both will help get those distances down where they aught to be. We're probably pulling the tire change ahead, but as said above, we have supplier commitments, so we can't just do it tomorrow. Also, you can't just call a tire company and tell them you'd like a few thousand tires a day, shipped across the country, starting tomorrow. These things take time for us, for Toyota, and for everyone else in the business. Swizco