7Mary3

No idea. But Ford isn't the only truck manufacturer to advance the MY's of medium duty trucks.

The 650 and 750 have been running a model year ahead, the 2024's were introduced first quarter 2023. The 2025's will be out shortly and that's what got Ford in trouble with CARB, as it appears the 6.7L Powerstroke does not meet 2025 CARB diesel emissions standards. Thus 2025 650 and 750 diesels cannot be sold in California. The 600 and lighter trucks get to keep the Powerstroke through 2024 as those trucks are 2024 MY. Last I heard GM and Navistar still have not released a gas engine option for the Silverado Medium Duty/International CV. That is surprising considering all the rumors that the gas engine option was 'coming soon', and the GM 6.6L gas engine has been EPA and CARB certified for medium duty trucks. Isuzu and Freightliner currently offer in it several medium duties. One story I heard was that the gas 6.6L could not be teamed with certain Allison transmissions, but if true even that has been resolved. Freightliner will have a gasoline Cummins 6.7L available in the M2 soon. I suspect Navistar will follow, and possibly even Isuzu in their larger F series will offer the Cummins gasser shortly.

I don't think the Duramax is any better, it's just the 2025 CARB diesel standards are going to be difficult and expensive to meet. I believe that for the most part what is coming in 2025 in California will be similar to the 2027 EPA standard.

Expect to see more of these kinds of stories, investigations are ongoing..... BTW, Ford will not be offering diesel powered F-650 and 750 trucks in California after the first of the year, they are no longer CARB compliant. It's an interesting situation, from what I gather the 7.3L Powerstroke does not meet 2025 CARB diesel standards, so as the 650 and 750 will be 2025MY next year (2024) they cannot be sold in California. It sounds like F-250's through F-600's will still be 'CARB legal' next year because those trucks are 2024MY. It will be interesting to see what Ford does in 2025, not being about to sell diesel 650's and 750's is not a big deal but if they can't get the Powerstroke to comply for the other trucks that's going to hurt.

Of course they wouldn't. It has a lot to do with the franchises. The GMC brand allows Buick and Cadillac dealers to sell premium trucks/CUV/SUV's, along with Hummers. Since there really isn't any 'stand alone' Lincoln dealers anymore, it would make more sense for Ford to axe what's left of Lincoln than for GM to drop GMC. Not saying I would like to see it, but I'll bet it would be easy to make the case to dump every Lincoln except for the Navigator and simply sell them at Ford dealers as an upper trim level to the Expedition.

No problem with GMC, it fits just fine and is very profitable. GMC dealers are handing Hummer exclusively as well. Buick actually has a long history in China back to the pre-WWII days, the brand has value there. GM has other brands in China too, like Wuling. Buick also manages to outsell Lincoln in North America.......

Far easier to convert the 7.3L gasoline engine to CNG or propane (which upfitters already offer) than to convert the 6.7L Powerstroke. The 2025 MY 650/750 diesel CARB sales restriction raises some interesting questions. First and foremost, will Ford be able to CARB certify the 6.7L Powerstroke for the 2025 F-250 through 600?

Very true, no more diesel 650's or 750's in California starting next year. The Cummins-Isuzu partnership likely also had something to do with Isuzu going to Cummins for their class 6 and 7 trucks. Which BTW seem to be selling quite well here.

It would, but that's not going to happen.

GMC division of GM started generating so much profit from upscale trucks and SUV's it made sense to focus on that highly profitable market and let Chevy dealers handle the commercial end.

You guys forgot about the '03-'04 Mercury Marauder?

The Ford N 'borrowed' a lot from the 1960 GMC B series (not the school bus, the '60-'65 short conventional). The GMC was a slightly better to work on, many used the 6V-71 Detroit and the fenders were very easy to remove. In 1966 GMC came out with an all-new heavy duty short conventional that had a tilt hood if the truck was 6-71 or Cummins powered. That truck eventually became the Brigadier. I agree, the U series Macks were probably the best of the short-nose breed. Some of the International Fleetstars and the Dodges with big Cummins power were miserable to work on, glad I never had to do touch them. The truck in the video is a little strange. As Bob pointed out, it ought to be an N-1000D. Might not have shutters as Detroits were more 'warm blooded' than Cummins (a reason why Detroits were such great bus engines, the heaters worked well). Also I think 1967 was the first year Ford offered the 6-71, but I could be mistaken.

Interesting video, gives an idea how tough some of the older short-nose diesel trucks were to work on. Amazing a Detroit 6-71 would fit in the N series, I heard the Cummins N series was even worse.

Very simple, the California Air Resources Board existed long before the EPA did. Therefore CARB is free to set any standard they wish, as long is it is at least as stringent as the federal EPA standard. Other states are free to adopt either CARB or EPA standards as they wish. In the long run it really doesn't matter much, it's always a case of the EPA eventually adopting CARB standards. I have often thought CARB must save the EPA a lot of effort in regards to vehicle emissions standards. All the EPA has to do is see what CARB does then enact that a few years later......

That's it.

That covers drayage trucks, the trucks used at ports that generally speaking do not leave port areas. Port areas have particularly bad air quality due to diesel ships that run constantly while in port (burning bunker oil). There is a big push to electrify drayage trucks, which is feasable given they don't go very far and are always close to recharging facilities.

It appears to be specific engines that can't meet the 2025 CARB regulations. For example, It looks like the Cummins 6.7L will meet the 2025 standard while the Isuzu 4HK1 does not. This is the first I have heard that the 6.7L Powerstroke may not meet the regulations, assuming that is the reason Ford isn't selling the 650/750 in California for 2025. The 450/550/600 is another question, but if those trucks will be 2024 MY until the end of the calender year I would think they would continue to be available in CARB states at least until 2025. Maybe Ford will eventually come up with an update for the 6.7L Powerstroke to meet 2025 CARB requirements, again assuming that is the reason the engine will not be offered in California.

I wonder if the 2025 MY 650/750 diesel sales ban in California will include the other CARB states.

It's not a diesel ban, it's the next round of more stringent diesel emissions regulations. If I am not mistaken, I think the 2025 CARB standards will be adopted by the EPA nationwide in 2027. Since the 2025 650 and 750 go on sale 1st. quarter of 2024 I believe they still have to meet 2025 emissions standards. Wonder why Ford is starting the 2025MY so early for the 650 and 750 when they can sell the current diesels in California until Dec. 31 2024. Does not make any sense. Cummins seems to have the technology to meet the new standards, even though they will have a gasoline version of the 6.7L on the market next year. I wonder if GM and Navistar will be able to certify the Duramax for the JV medium duty for 2025.

Yes, it's getting interesting here. Isuzu will continue to offer Cummins diesel powered FTR and FVR (Chevy LCF 6500 and 7500) trucks in California for the 2025MY, but not the 4HK1 powered N series trucks. Also noticed the Pro-Loader 650 models are discontinued. Their place is taken by the F-600 anyway. No air brake option for gasoline powered models, looks like Ford gave up on that idea.

Anyone notice the 650/750, E series, and F53 are not on this list? Also shows P768 as the next gen. Super Duty coming in the 2029MY.

Good point, you will see a lot of medium duty truck diesel engines phased out over the next few years due to the more stringent NOX standards coming in 2027. Stop-start technology will be one of the strategies implemented. I would tend to think that engines like the 6.7L Cummins, 6.6L Duramax, and 6.7L Powerstroke will continue due to their popularity in lighter personal-use trucks. Cummins will have a 6.7L gasoline engine available soon for medium duty trucks, look for wide adoption by the OEM's currently offering the 6.7L diesel. Ford will finally have a lot of competition in the gasoline engine class 6 and 7 field. A certain fleet I am familiar with may be testing a hydrogen fuel cell F-550 in the future. Interesting that it's supposed to be an F-550, not a 650/750.

Mercedes had to give the Sprinter to their car dealers, Freightliner dealers wanted nothing to do with them! It played out well now that Daimler Trucks has been spun off of Mercedes-Benz. As for Ford, 'medium duty continues' at Avon Lake doesn't mean much, I think they are just telling the UAW that the product will continue for the foreseeable future and no workforce reductions are planned in connection with the medium duty trucks.. I don't see Ford spending any money on the 650 and 750 considering their sales volume and offering vendor-supplied engines and transmissions along with more chassis and axle options will very likely make the trucks even less profitable than they are now.

To a certain extent a class 4/5 E series could play in that space, but I still see significant advantages to the Isuzu/Chevy/Hino LCF's. Shorter BBC, tighter turning radius, 3 person cab, no need to fabricate a back wall for the cab if required, very easy upfit, reasonably sized 4 cylinder diesel availability, and generally speaking a robust commercial vehicle with great resale.